well, what does trump represent to you? does your take on him mean that foo is wrong for seeing something different in him? do you think less of foo because he does not denounce trump?showa58taro wrote: My point is that it's a pretty weird demographic that was against slavery and the south but wants to preserve general Lee in statue form.
Is Tom Cruise the Greatest Movie Star of All Time?
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Re: Is Tom Cruise the Greatest Movie Star of All Time?
Re: Is Tom Cruise the Greatest Movie Star of All Time?
Do you think liberals will someday discover that Washington and Jefferson owned slaves? There is some pretty nice marble in those monuments I wouldn't mind having for countertops.
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Re: Is Tom Cruise the Greatest Movie Star of All Time?
I can honestly say I've never see this happen except when we're fucking around, putting words in each other's mouths and being playfully annoying.zombie wrote:i'm guilty as charged, and i've seen others try to make the same distinction for one group or another, so i know it's not just me. but fair enough. i'll try to do it less often.Headhunter wrote:We gotta get over this constant paralyzing fear in this section that describing the actions of a few will be interpreted as representative of the whole. We're all smart and nuanced enough to understand that's never been the case here, at least as far as I know. Nobody is saying all Muslims are terrorists. Nobody is saying all southerners are white supremacists. Nobody has said anything of the kind in this section at any point to my knowledge. Get over this idea already...
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Re: Is Tom Cruise the Greatest Movie Star of All Time?
Talk about a comment that has nothing to do with anything.Foo wrote:Do you think liberals will someday discover that Washington and Jefferson owned slaves? There is some pretty nice marble in those monuments I wouldn't mind having for countertops.
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Re: Is Tom Cruise the Greatest Movie Star of All Time?
I think all the high-profile males have been accused as such... hmmHeadhunter wrote:Statistically every Scientologist is a closeted homosexual.Reign in Blood wrote:I don't know, we are in the Tom Cruise thread...Headhunter wrote:We gotta get over this constant paralyzing fear in this section that describing the actions of a few will be interpreted as representative of the whole. We're all smart and nuanced enough to understand that's never been the case here, at least as far as I know. Nobody is saying all Muslims are terrorists. Nobody is saying all southerners are white supremacists. Nobody has said anything of the kind in this section at any point to my knowledge. Get over this idea already...
Please discuss.
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Re: Is Tom Cruise the Greatest Movie Star of All Time?
It's almost like that stuff was in history books.Foo wrote:Do you think liberals will someday discover that Washington and Jefferson owned slaves? There is some pretty nice marble in those monuments I wouldn't mind having for countertops.
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Re: Is Tom Cruise the Greatest Movie Star of All Time?
In the case of the Confederacy, feelings don't matter when facts are available. Having this idyllic impression of the Confederacy is not a perspective, it's just being incorrect.zombie wrote:well, what does trump represent to you? does your take on him mean that foo is wrong for seeing something different in him? do you think less of foo because he does not denounce trump?showa58taro wrote: My point is that it's a pretty weird demographic that was against slavery and the south but wants to preserve general Lee in statue form.
Not removing until John Elway is fired.
Re: Is Tom Cruise the Greatest Movie Star of All Time?
i don't do it to be annoying. maybe i've done it in a playful way at times, but yeah. it was not my intention to be annoying or overbearing with it. i do feel like it's important, when things seem to be going that way.Headhunter wrote:I can honestly say I've never see this happen except when we're fucking around, putting words in each other's mouths and being playfully annoying.zombie wrote:i'm guilty as charged, and i've seen others try to make the same distinction for one group or another, so i know it's not just me. but fair enough. i'll try to do it less often.Headhunter wrote:We gotta get over this constant paralyzing fear in this section that describing the actions of a few will be interpreted as representative of the whole. We're all smart and nuanced enough to understand that's never been the case here, at least as far as I know. Nobody is saying all Muslims are terrorists. Nobody is saying all southerners are white supremacists. Nobody has said anything of the kind in this section at any point to my knowledge. Get over this idea already...
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Re: Is Tom Cruise the Greatest Movie Star of All Time?
Have people never talked about this? I was under the impression this was some popular theory lmaoReign in Blood wrote:I think all the high-profile males have been accused as such... hmmHeadhunter wrote:Statistically every Scientologist is a closeted homosexual.Reign in Blood wrote:I don't know, we are in the Tom Cruise thread...Headhunter wrote:We gotta get over this constant paralyzing fear in this section that describing the actions of a few will be interpreted as representative of the whole. We're all smart and nuanced enough to understand that's never been the case here, at least as far as I know. Nobody is saying all Muslims are terrorists. Nobody is saying all southerners are white supremacists. Nobody has said anything of the kind in this section at any point to my knowledge. Get over this idea already...
Please discuss.
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Re: Is Tom Cruise the Greatest Movie Star of All Time?
Not sure that I see the equivalent. How do you abstract a General from the war he fought?zombie wrote:well, what does trump represent to you? does your take on him mean that foo is wrong for seeing something different in him? do you think less of foo because he does not denounce trump?showa58taro wrote: My point is that it's a pretty weird demographic that was against slavery and the south but wants to preserve general Lee in statue form.
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Re: Is Tom Cruise the Greatest Movie Star of All Time?
I don't mean annoying in the harsh sense you do. Closer to ball-busting. Foo and I do all of what I've described a LOT.zombie wrote:i don't do it to be annoying. maybe i've done it in a playful way at times, but yeah. it was not my intention to be annoying or overbearing with it. i do feel like it's important, when things seem to be going that way.Headhunter wrote:I can honestly say I've never see this happen except when we're fucking around, putting words in each other's mouths and being playfully annoying.zombie wrote:i'm guilty as charged, and i've seen others try to make the same distinction for one group or another, so i know it's not just me. but fair enough. i'll try to do it less often.Headhunter wrote:We gotta get over this constant paralyzing fear in this section that describing the actions of a few will be interpreted as representative of the whole. We're all smart and nuanced enough to understand that's never been the case here, at least as far as I know. Nobody is saying all Muslims are terrorists. Nobody is saying all southerners are white supremacists. Nobody has said anything of the kind in this section at any point to my knowledge. Get over this idea already...
Not removing until John Elway is fired.
Re: Is Tom Cruise the Greatest Movie Star of All Time?
if you deny slavery happened, or shrug it off as not so bad, they should be thanking us for bring them to america or whatever crap, then yeah, it is incorrect. it's revisionist, idyllic blahblahblah. if i have something wrong, then tell me what actually happened, go further than just you're wrong, stop it.Headhunter wrote:In the case of the Confederacy, feelings don't matter when facts are available. Having this idyllic impression of the Confederacy is not a perspective, it's just being incorrect.zombie wrote:well, what does trump represent to you? does your take on him mean that foo is wrong for seeing something different in him? do you think less of foo because he does not denounce trump?showa58taro wrote: My point is that it's a pretty weird demographic that was against slavery and the south but wants to preserve general Lee in statue form.
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Re: Is Tom Cruise the Greatest Movie Star of All Time?
You haven't promoted any theories or ideas yourself, so what are you talking about?zombie wrote:if you deny slavery happened, or shrug it off as not so bad, they should be thanking us for bring them to america or whatever crap, then yeah, it is incorrect. it's revisionist, idyllic blahblahblah. if i have something wrong, then tell me what actually happened, go further than just you're wrong, stop it.Headhunter wrote:In the case of the Confederacy, feelings don't matter when facts are available. Having this idyllic impression of the Confederacy is not a perspective, it's just being incorrect.zombie wrote:well, what does trump represent to you? does your take on him mean that foo is wrong for seeing something different in him? do you think less of foo because he does not denounce trump?showa58taro wrote: My point is that it's a pretty weird demographic that was against slavery and the south but wants to preserve general Lee in statue form.
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Re: Is Tom Cruise the Greatest Movie Star of All Time?
The terrorism that took place in the South targeting blacks during the Reconstruction era was not widely known to all Americans until fairly recently.
Why?
Why?
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Re: Is Tom Cruise the Greatest Movie Star of All Time?
hmmm.. you're arguing that everyone who feels pride in what robert e lee represents to them is either removing him from his time or is a racist? if so, context is important. and racism sucks.showa58taro wrote:Not sure that I see the equivalent. How do you abstract a General from the war he fought?zombie wrote:well, what does trump represent to you? does your take on him mean that foo is wrong for seeing something different in him? do you think less of foo because he does not denounce trump?showa58taro wrote: My point is that it's a pretty weird demographic that was against slavery and the south but wants to preserve general Lee in statue form.
Re: Is Tom Cruise the Greatest Movie Star of All Time?
earlier, you were very adamant about me being wrong about all of this. that's all that i was trying to get at.Headhunter wrote:You haven't promoted any theories or ideas yourself, so what are you talking about?zombie wrote:if you deny slavery happened, or shrug it off as not so bad, they should be thanking us for bring them to america or whatever crap, then yeah, it is incorrect. it's revisionist, idyllic blahblahblah. if i have something wrong, then tell me what actually happened, go further than just you're wrong, stop it.Headhunter wrote:In the case of the Confederacy, feelings don't matter when facts are available. Having this idyllic impression of the Confederacy is not a perspective, it's just being incorrect.zombie wrote:well, what does trump represent to you? does your take on him mean that foo is wrong for seeing something different in him? do you think less of foo because he does not denounce trump?showa58taro wrote: My point is that it's a pretty weird demographic that was against slavery and the south but wants to preserve general Lee in statue form.
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Re: Is Tom Cruise the Greatest Movie Star of All Time?
I don't take this lightly when I say southerners were indoctrinated with generations worth of lies about the South in the 19th century. Everything from glorifying the Antebellum South (it was a feudal shithole), to intentionally misleading about the purposes of the Civil War (states' rights was a Union argument, not a Confederate one) and what actually took place during the early Jim Crow era.
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Re: Is Tom Cruise the Greatest Movie Star of All Time?
Because you spent so much time dancing around what the statue has come to represent in modern society. It's obvious. Why should I care about the perspective of people who believe the Civil War was never about slavery and that the primary discrimination of the Reconstruction era was directed toward white southerners and not black people? Seriously, why should I?zombie wrote:earlier, you were very adamant about me being wrong about all of this. that's all that i was trying to get at.Headhunter wrote:You haven't promoted any theories or ideas yourself, so what are you talking about?zombie wrote:if you deny slavery happened, or shrug it off as not so bad, they should be thanking us for bring them to america or whatever crap, then yeah, it is incorrect. it's revisionist, idyllic blahblahblah. if i have something wrong, then tell me what actually happened, go further than just you're wrong, stop it.Headhunter wrote:In the case of the Confederacy, feelings don't matter when facts are available. Having this idyllic impression of the Confederacy is not a perspective, it's just being incorrect.zombie wrote:well, what does trump represent to you? does your take on him mean that foo is wrong for seeing something different in him? do you think less of foo because he does not denounce trump?showa58taro wrote: My point is that it's a pretty weird demographic that was against slavery and the south but wants to preserve general Lee in statue form.
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Re: Is Tom Cruise the Greatest Movie Star of All Time?
Yeah, pretty much. Except for true historians who may have an intellectual fascination with Kee, the man, it seems like you can't take Slavery and the South away from a statue of Lee as a confederate general.zombie wrote:hmmm.. you're arguing that everyone who feels pride in what robert e lee represents to them is either removing him from his time or is a racist? if so, context is important. and racism sucks.showa58taro wrote:Not sure that I see the equivalent. How do you abstract a General from the war he fought?zombie wrote:well, what does trump represent to you? does your take on him mean that foo is wrong for seeing something different in him? do you think less of foo because he does not denounce trump?showa58taro wrote: My point is that it's a pretty weird demographic that was against slavery and the south but wants to preserve general Lee in statue form.
Re: Is Tom Cruise the Greatest Movie Star of All Time?
i think it doesn't represent the same thing to everyone is all. if some people are removing him from his time, then it might as well be mickey mouse. like i said, context matters. if you have pride in what someone represents to you, but you're removing him his time to make that pride work, he's essentially become a fictional character. it doesn't mean the same. it could be anyone. so if you want to push them to see the context, go for it. but i don't think that is true of everyone.Headhunter wrote: Because you spent so much time dancing around what the statue has come to represent in modern society. It's obvious. Why should I care about the perspective of people who believe the Civil War was never about slavery and that the primary discrimination of the Reconstruction era was directed toward white southerners and not black people? Seriously, why should I?