DRAFT chat

[Jason]

Tier 2: Champ, Revis, C-Wood

You are fuckin' high.

Nope. I realize Champ was a Bronco but he was not Deion or Rod.

You're right, he was better. Tackled better than both, covered better than Rod and as good or better than Deion.

Tackling, looool. They're corners. Who cares?

They're corners, and part of the game is run support. Can't believe I have to explain this to you.

Deion would get ran over by Warrick Dunn. A corner's role is not just blindly covering a receiver.

You don't "have to explain" it, but you do need to re-assess how you value it.

Tackling is like the 10th most important skill a corner can have. It's really funny when fans jump from pure cover skill to tackling, as if they are the only two components of a corner's game.

It's not as important as covering, obviously. But comparing Champ to Deion, they were easily the two best cover corners ever. Deion flat out sucked at tackling and run support. If he gave up a catch, there was a high chance he'd miss the tackle and the receiver would churn an extra 10-20 yards out of it. I watched nearly every game Champ ever had. I only remember maybe two or three missed tackles ever. Ever.

Deion gets high praise for his return ability that carries over into his corner status. He was not as good as Champ, or Rod.

The tackling stuff has been hilariously overblown over the years. He was not a physical tackler, but he was not missing a bunch of tackles either. It wasn't an asset but it wasn't impactful enough to ever be a liability either.

You gotta stop with the hyperbolic nonsense in these arguments. It discredits everything you say when you talk about guys never missing tackles ever, never losing a rep ever etc. There are other ways to make your point without coming across as obnoxious, you know.

Never said any of those things. You like to bring up some off the wall football stat website as if watching for your own eyes is irrelevant. If you need football prospectus to tell you how it is and you'd rather take their word for it than watch it yourself, that's on you.

[Jason]

As pure cover guys go, there's Deion and then there's everyone else. Class of his own.

Champ was as good, or better.

35 passes thrown to Champ Bailey in 2006. 4 were completed. 0 were touchdowns. Champ had 10 interceptions and ran 4 of them back.

He had as many pick-6s as he allowed completions in 2006. This was his best year, but he did that shit regularly. STFU.

That 2006 stat was debunked as fake years ago.

By who ThatsGoodPatriots?

That was a GOAT corner season, but keep denying it.

No, by Football Prospectus, who charts every target.

Stop peddling fake stats to pimp Champ. You're making other Broncos fans look bad.

You go out of your way to lower praise for Bronco players to not seem like a homer. Appreciate the greatness, stop looking at football stat analysis sheets and watch the games. Watch 06 yourself.

So the guy who goes out of his way to peddle a fake stat is going to bitch about use of stats three posts later when the fake stat is exposed? Huh.

Exposed by ThatsGoodPatriots. lol. You should probably watch football instead of trusting some off-the-wall site who claims to debunk shit.

Snopes.nfl.co.uk.

[Headhunter]

Champ is behind Sanders,Woodson,Woodson, Revis and Lane

I hope you're 100 years old with an opinion like that.

I saw the entire career of all but Lane and Lane's stats are off the charts. 14 picks in 12 games still hasnt been matched even in 16 games.

I don't even see the point of comparing guys who ran 4.7s and played against milk men and truck drivers to modern athletes.

You had to be bigger back than because it was 10 times more brutal and people were actually trying to hurt you.

You had to be bigger but almost everyone was smaller?

Wide outs and corners were bigger probably not as muscular but they didn't have the luxury of working out year round they had to get jobs in the offseason. Night Train is the reason there is such a thing as a face mask penalty he used to tackle cats by their faces

This is why I'm not crazy about measuring guys like this against modern athletes. It was a more turnover-prone game back then and the guy was not covering anyone who could even beat most high school corners today.

[Jason]

Didn't live to see Night Train, can't rank properly. He dominated his era better than any other corner I'm sure, but the game has pretty much reached peak evolution, and it's hard to say if he could even play with today's athletes.

[Headhunter]

As pure cover guys go, there's Deion and then there's everyone else. Class of his own.

Champ was as good, or better.

35 passes thrown to Champ Bailey in 2006. 4 were completed. 0 were touchdowns. Champ had 10 interceptions and ran 4 of them back.

He had as many pick-6s as he allowed completions in 2006. This was his best year, but he did that shit regularly. STFU.

That 2006 stat was debunked as fake years ago.

By who ThatsGoodPatriots?

That was a GOAT corner season, but keep denying it.

No, by Football Prospectus, who charts every target.

Stop peddling fake stats to pimp Champ. You're making other Broncos fans look bad.

You go out of your way to lower praise for Bronco players to not seem like a homer. Appreciate the greatness, stop looking at football stat analysis sheets and watch the games. Watch 06 yourself.

So the guy who goes out of his way to peddle a fake stat is going to bitch about use of stats three posts later when the fake stat is exposed? Huh.

Exposed by ThatsGoodPatriots. lol. You should probably watch football instead of trusting some off-the-wall site who claims to debunk shit.

Snopes.nfl.co.uk.

*Football Prospectus. And they didn't "claim to debunk" anything, they simply record every target. Really though, just not being hilariously naive is enough to debunk that absurd, made up number lmao. It's incredible to think any human being who's spent time watching football could think that ridiculous stat is even close to true. Like saying a QB threw 90 touchdowns vs. no interceptions with an 89% completion rate.

So tell me where you got the Champ Bailey stat from and who recorded the 4 catches?

[Jason]

As pure cover guys go, there's Deion and then there's everyone else. Class of his own.

Champ was as good, or better.

35 passes thrown to Champ Bailey in 2006. 4 were completed. 0 were touchdowns. Champ had 10 interceptions and ran 4 of them back.

He had as many pick-6s as he allowed completions in 2006. This was his best year, but he did that shit regularly. STFU.

That 2006 stat was debunked as fake years ago.

By who ThatsGoodPatriots?

That was a GOAT corner season, but keep denying it.

No, by Football Prospectus, who charts every target.

Stop peddling fake stats to pimp Champ. You're making other Broncos fans look bad.

You go out of your way to lower praise for Bronco players to not seem like a homer. Appreciate the greatness, stop looking at football stat analysis sheets and watch the games. Watch 06 yourself.

So the guy who goes out of his way to peddle a fake stat is going to bitch about use of stats three posts later when the fake stat is exposed? Huh.

Exposed by ThatsGoodPatriots. lol. You should probably watch football instead of trusting some off-the-wall site who claims to debunk shit.

Snopes.nfl.co.uk.

*Football Prospectus. And they didn't "claim to debunk" anything, they simply record every target. Really though, just not being hilariously naive is enough to debunk that absurd, made up number lmao.

So tell me where you got the Champ Bailey stat from and who recorded the 4 catches?

The Denver Broncos.

[Headhunter]

As pure cover guys go, there's Deion and then there's everyone else. Class of his own.

Champ was as good, or better.

35 passes thrown to Champ Bailey in 2006. 4 were completed. 0 were touchdowns. Champ had 10 interceptions and ran 4 of them back.

He had as many pick-6s as he allowed completions in 2006. This was his best year, but he did that shit regularly. STFU.

That 2006 stat was debunked as fake years ago.

By who ThatsGoodPatriots?

That was a GOAT corner season, but keep denying it.

No, by Football Prospectus, who charts every target.

Stop peddling fake stats to pimp Champ. You're making other Broncos fans look bad.

You go out of your way to lower praise for Bronco players to not seem like a homer. Appreciate the greatness, stop looking at football stat analysis sheets and watch the games. Watch 06 yourself.

So the guy who goes out of his way to peddle a fake stat is going to bitch about use of stats three posts later when the fake stat is exposed? Huh.

Exposed by ThatsGoodPatriots. lol. You should probably watch football instead of trusting some off-the-wall site who claims to debunk shit.

Snopes.nfl.co.uk.

*Football Prospectus. And they didn't "claim to debunk" anything, they simply record every target. Really though, just not being hilariously naive is enough to debunk that absurd, made up number lmao.

So tell me where you got the Champ Bailey stat from and who recorded the 4 catches?

The Denver Broncos.

Through what medium did they peddle that fake stat?

I know for a fact it came from Ron Jaworski on a preseason MNF broadcast and that's its only origin, but please continue spinning your web.

[Jason]

Teams record their own statistics, believe it or not. If you heard it from Jaws on preseason, he heard it from a guy who heard it from a guy who heard it from The Denver Broncos. Hate to blow your mind, but teams record their own stats, and are much better at doing so than Football Wesucktus.

[Headhunter]

For those who are interested in not fake stats, Champ was targeted 86 times in 2006 and gave up 40 receptions. Five completions were over 25 yards, including receptions by Hines Ward, Arnaz Battle, Darrell Jackson, Derrick Mason and Samie Parker. Talk about a throwback with some of these names.

Still a great season, but that 4 reception stat is a joke.

[Jason]

But to be clear, I am not a stat guy. Especially offensively. But allowing 4 catches 4 zero TDs and scoring 4 touchdowns himself on 10 interceptions is incredible. If you wanna whine about the amount of catches, I don't care.

Tell me this: How do they calculate catches allowed, your Football Wesucktus site...

[Headhunter]

Teams record their own statistics, believe it or not. If you heard it from Jaws on preseason, he heard it from a guy who heard it from a guy who heard it from The Denver Broncos. Hate to blow your mind, but teams record their own stats, and are much better at doing so than Football Wesucktus.

Show me wheare these stats are recorded, or how you know it came from the team. And no, teams are much worse at recording stats than objective data websites. They fluff player stats all the time.

[Headhunter]

But to be clear, I am not a stat guy. Especially offensively. But allowing 4 catches 4 zero TDs and scoring 4 touchdowns himself on 10 interceptions is incredible. If you wanna whine about the amount of catches, I don't care.

Tell me this: How do they calculate catches allowed, your Football Wesucktus site...

It is incredible. Incredible how a person could be naive enough to believe that nonsense.

[Jason]

For those who are interested in not fake stats, Champ was targeted 86 times in 2006 and gave up 40 receptions. Five completions were over 25 yards, including receptions by Hines Ward, Arnaz Battle, Darrell Jackson, Derrick Mason and Samie Parker. Talk about a throwback with some of these names.

Still a great season, but that 4 reception stat is a joke.

No. That stat you just spewed is a joke, and I will expose it when you give me your answer in my question from the previous post.
Everyone reading this thread is now dumber. Thanks.

[Jason]

But to be clear, I am not a stat guy. Especially offensively. But allowing 4 catches 4 zero TDs and scoring 4 touchdowns himself on 10 interceptions is incredible. If you wanna whine about the amount of catches, I don't care.

Tell me this: How do they calculate catches allowed, your Football Wesucktus site...

It is incredible. Incredible how a person could be naive enough to believe that nonsense.

Answer my question. How do they calculate catches allowed by a corner?

[Headhunter]

For those who are interested in not fake stats, Champ was targeted 86 times in 2006 and gave up 40 receptions. Five completions were over 25 yards, including receptions by Hines Ward, Arnaz Battle, Darrell Jackson, Derrick Mason and Samie Parker. Talk about a throwback with some of these names.

Still a great season, but that 4 reception stat is a joke.

No. That stat you just spewed is a joke, and I will expose it when you give me your answer in my question from the previous post.
Everyone reading this thread is now dumber. Thanks.

Your anger at your fake stat being exposed has made you pretty much incoherent in the last page.

[Headhunter]

Jason, who recorded the 4 catches? Which games were they in? Since all you need to do is 'watch football" to know all this stuff, you should be able to tell me surely.

[Jason]

For those who are interested in not fake stats, Champ was targeted 86 times in 2006 and gave up 40 receptions. Five completions were over 25 yards, including receptions by Hines Ward, Arnaz Battle, Darrell Jackson, Derrick Mason and Samie Parker. Talk about a throwback with some of these names.

Still a great season, but that 4 reception stat is a joke.

No. That stat you just spewed is a joke, and I will expose it when you give me your answer in my question from the previous post.
Everyone reading this thread is now dumber. Thanks.

Your anger at your fake stat being exposed has made you pretty much incoherent in the last page.

It's not my stat. And it's laughable to think that some random goons in a basement pretending to tally statistics get your full support. Why are there 100s of different stat recording websites? They've all got different results. Why do you trust that one place over any other?

[Jason]

Jason, who recorded the 4 catches? Which games were they in? Since all you need to do is 'watch football" to know all this stuff, you should be able to tell me surely.

I've got the 2006 season. I will gladly rewatch and tell you.

Now answer my question that you've purposely avoided for three consecutive posts...

[Headhunter]

For those who are interested in not fake stats, Champ was targeted 86 times in 2006 and gave up 40 receptions. Five completions were over 25 yards, including receptions by Hines Ward, Arnaz Battle, Darrell Jackson, Derrick Mason and Samie Parker. Talk about a throwback with some of these names.

Still a great season, but that 4 reception stat is a joke.

No. That stat you just spewed is a joke, and I will expose it when you give me your answer in my question from the previous post.
Everyone reading this thread is now dumber. Thanks.

Your anger at your fake stat being exposed has made you pretty much incoherent in the last page.

It's not my stat. And it's laughable to think that some random goons in a basement pretending to tally statistics get your full support. Why are there 100s of different stat recording websites? They've all got different results. Why do you trust that one place over any other?

You're right, it's Mike Tirico's (I said Jaws, but I guess it was actually Tirico) stat. In 11 years, no other source has ever claimed it.

Who are these hundreds of stat recording websites with different results? Give me one other site that charts these like FO did for Champ's season. PFF data only goes back to 2007.

[Headhunter]

Jason, who recorded the 4 catches? Which games were they in? Since all you need to do is 'watch football" to know all this stuff, you should be able to tell me surely.

I've got the 2006 season. I will gladly rewatch and tell you.

Now answer my question that you've purposely avoided for three consecutive posts...

Do you have All-22 footage?