HorrorMovieFans.com

showa58taro wrote:

Jigsaw wrote:

showa58taro wrote:It’ll never be fixed by voting third party either. Hence catch 22. If you vote you lose as they won’t win in the system and nothing changes. If you don’t vote then nothing changes. If you fracture the system it probably doesn’t do enough. That’s the frustration.

Indeed, which just shows how screwed up this country is, as millions like myself have zero representation and yet literally no reason to vote.

It’s a real issue that will need addressing at some point. Might mean fracturing the Senste a bit.

The question is, will it actually be addressed, or are the American people too beaten down to fight for such representation?

They’ll have to if they want a change.

Third parties gave us George W. Bush. As it stands, they aren't helpful.

Headhunter wrote:Third parties gave us George W. Bush. As it stands, they aren't helpful.

No, they didn't. Third party voters didn't vote for Gore or Bush, so stop with that bullshit.

What makes you think that, had Nader not been on the ballet, his voters would have gone Gore? If I was a Nader supporter, and got to the ballots to see only Bush and Gore on the ballot, I'd go home.

Third parties are not the problem, candidates who expect votes without earning them (Gore, Clinton, and others) are.

Without third parties, I'd have no one to vote for. How in the fuck does that mean they're not helpful? It's not helpful that I finally get to vote for a candidate I think is worth voting for?

Anti-third party mentality is pure bullshit. Period.

This is what I hear when someone bitches about third parties: "I don't care if neither candidate represents you, you get no choice. Vote for them anyway."

Again, it's bullshit.

Jigsaw wrote:

Headhunter wrote:Third parties gave us George W. Bush. As it stands, they aren't helpful.

No, they didn't.

This. Simply this.

Third party voters gave us *insert candidate I don't like in a close election*

If Clinton had won instead of Trump, Trump voters would have said I voted for Clinton. Head's saying my vote went to Trump because Trump won. My vote went to neither, rightfully so. At the very least, this is something that Jason and I agree with, so my respect to him for that.

Jigsaw wrote:If Clinton had won instead of Trump, Trump voters would have said I voted for Clinton. Head's saying my vote went to Trump because Trump won. My vote went to neither, rightfully so. At the very least, this is something that Jason and I agree with, so my respect to him for that.

When liberals don't vote for the liberal candidate, yeah the net effect is helping the conservative candidate. But you do live in a red state, so it doesn't matter in your case. It matters in Florida and other states in the Midwest.

Jigsaw wrote:This is what I hear when someone bitches about third parties: "I don't care if neither candidate represents you, you get no choice. Vote for them anyway."

Again, it's bullshit.

If you don't care about winning, then sure, you have choices. We're doing unnecessary mental gymnastics here to avoid the reality of a two party system.

Jigsaw wrote:Without third parties, I'd have no one to vote for. How in the fuck does that mean they're not helpful? It's not helpful that I finally get to vote for a candidate I think is worth voting for?

Anti-third party mentality is pure bullshit. Period.

It's not anti-third party, it's pro-math. Nothing personal about it, the system doesn't work for third parties. Nothing else to it.

Giuliani has to be the worst ally ever known. Literally goes on Fox with his phone and proves exactly what the whistleblower said even to the point of showing Kurt Volker’s involvement. Christ. What a storm this is becoming for Trump.

Headhunter wrote:

Jigsaw wrote:If Clinton had won instead of Trump, Trump voters would have said I voted for Clinton. Head's saying my vote went to Trump because Trump won. My vote went to neither, rightfully so. At the very least, this is something that Jason and I agree with, so my respect to him for that.

When liberals don't vote for the liberal candidate, yeah the net effect is helping the conservative candidate. But you do live in a red state, so it doesn't matter in your case. It matters in Florida and other states in the Midwest.

I'm not a liberal, I'm a leftist. I have zero interest in helping liberal candidates, as I'm not a liberal. If I lived in a swing state, I'd be voting the exact same way, and encouraging other leftists and socialists to do the same.

Headhunter wrote:

Jigsaw wrote:This is what I hear when someone bitches about third parties: "I don't care if neither candidate represents you, you get no choice. Vote for them anyway."

Again, it's bullshit.

If you don't care about winning, then sure, you have choices. We're doing unnecessary mental gymnastics here to avoid the reality of a two party system.

Clinton's victory in 2016 would not have been a 'win.' It would have been as big a loss as Obama's 2008 victory, only worse. There is no 'reality.' Third parties have won local elections before, and in time, they'll likely be able to win state-wide elections. Voting Democratic is LITERALLY voting for a party that stands against third parties, so that's obviously not a respectable option for any socialist/leftist.

Headhunter wrote:

Jigsaw wrote:Without third parties, I'd have no one to vote for. How in the fuck does that mean they're not helpful? It's not helpful that I finally get to vote for a candidate I think is worth voting for?

Anti-third party mentality is pure bullshit. Period.

It's not anti-third party, it's pro-math. Nothing personal about it, the system doesn't work for third parties. Nothing else to it.

Then it's time to change the system, not cower to an unfair treatment of choice. Fuck the two-party system and those who shame third party voters.

Jigsaw wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Jigsaw wrote:Without third parties, I'd have no one to vote for. How in the fuck does that mean they're not helpful? It's not helpful that I finally get to vote for a candidate I think is worth voting for?

Anti-third party mentality is pure bullshit. Period.

It's not anti-third party, it's pro-math. Nothing personal about it, the system doesn't work for third parties. Nothing else to it.

Then it's time to change the system, not cower to an unfair treatment of choice. Fuck the two-party system and those who shame third party voters.

Shaming you for being true to yourself. What a 2010-ish thing to do. Headward has converted over to the Olds, pay him no mind.

Jigsaw wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Jigsaw wrote:Without third parties, I'd have no one to vote for. How in the fuck does that mean they're not helpful? It's not helpful that I finally get to vote for a candidate I think is worth voting for?

Anti-third party mentality is pure bullshit. Period.

It's not anti-third party, it's pro-math. Nothing personal about it, the system doesn't work for third parties. Nothing else to it.

Then it's time to change the system, not cower to an unfair treatment of choice. Fuck the two-party system and those who shame third party voters.

How am I being unfair or shaming you by saying that third parties don't work because of math? I'm just telling you what is, there's nothing personal about it.

Jigsaw wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Jigsaw wrote:If Clinton had won instead of Trump, Trump voters would have said I voted for Clinton. Head's saying my vote went to Trump because Trump won. My vote went to neither, rightfully so. At the very least, this is something that Jason and I agree with, so my respect to him for that.

When liberals don't vote for the liberal candidate, yeah the net effect is helping the conservative candidate. But you do live in a red state, so it doesn't matter in your case. It matters in Florida and other states in the Midwest.

I'm not a liberal, I'm a leftist. I have zero interest in helping liberal candidates, as I'm not a liberal. If I lived in a swing state, I'd be voting the exact same way, and encouraging other leftists and socialists to do the same.

Nothing wrong with that. It would help Republicans, and you can deny it all you want, but that's a statistical reality. And that reality shouldn't bother you as long as you don't care about who wins or loses in the two-party dynamic, as you insist.

Reign in Blood wrote:

Jigsaw wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Jigsaw wrote:Without third parties, I'd have no one to vote for. How in the fuck does that mean they're not helpful? It's not helpful that I finally get to vote for a candidate I think is worth voting for?

Anti-third party mentality is pure bullshit. Period.

It's not anti-third party, it's pro-math. Nothing personal about it, the system doesn't work for third parties. Nothing else to it.

Then it's time to change the system, not cower to an unfair treatment of choice. Fuck the two-party system and those who shame third party voters.

Shaming you for being true to yourself. What a 2010-ish thing to do. Headward has converted over to the Olds, pay him no mind.

No shame and everyone should do what they think is right, but it's a two-party system. The part about me converting to the olds though, pretty damn true.

voting for one of the two main parties is only going to embolden them more and keep them going all the more. voting third party isn't going to amount to much in the way things are now. but it's all you've got if you want to try to change things away from the two party system.