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Foo wrote:By the way, expect laws to change everywhere very soon in regards to blood samples. With so many pills and so much weed out there, taking blood at traffic stops is going to be the new norm and laws will change to accommodate it.

yeah, maybe. pill pushing has been a thing since my dad was a kid. ritalin and all of that crap. and alcohol has been consumed for a long time in this country. but legal weed may tip the scales. we'll see.

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:not all evidence. but this evidence, because of the policy cited by that nurse and by the supervisors she was speaking to. it can be obtained without a warrant. what justice would there be, if it was obtained illegally?

if the cop was doing things correctly and by the book, evigant circumstance and all that, why was he unable to find someone else to take the blood from the victim?

Do you think all businesses' policy and the law perfectly match?

I believe he was there to take blood himself from the victim and was obstructed.

i meant, was she the only nurse in the only hospital, that could take his blood if things were really done on the up and up?

i think that hospital policy regarding patients better be in line with the law, or else they can be punished under that law and sued. there is serious legal action that can be taken, because of the nature of their job, if they are not in compliance with local laws.

She represented herself as the person in charge at that moment. Are you suggesting a dying man be taken to another hospital to gather evidence?

Maybe sometimes we need to focus on doing the right thing instead of focusing on whether or not we are going to be sued. FWIW, I think the nurse was doing that. She was following the hospital policy. Her only mistake was reacting the way she did to the arrest.

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:By the way, expect laws to change everywhere very soon in regards to blood samples. With so many pills and so much weed out there, taking blood at traffic stops is going to be the new norm and laws will change to accommodate it.

yeah, maybe. pill pushing has been a thing since my dad was a kid. ritalin and all of that crap. and alcohol has been consumed for a long time in this country. but legal weed may tip the scales. we'll see.

Do you think the opiod epidemic is a media fabrication or something?

Foo wrote:
She represented herself as the person in charge at that moment. Are you suggesting a dying man be taken to another hospital to gather evidence?

Maybe sometimes we need to focus on doing the right thing instead of focusing on whether or not we are going to be sued. FWIW, I think the nurse was doing that. She was following the hospital policy. Her only mistake was reacting the way she did to the arrest.

no, that is not what i was suggesting. supervisors were on the way. i guess they couldn't reach any kind of solution.

you asked if policy and laws line up. and i said that they should, especially in the case of hospitals. i don't know why you always wanna push the narrative that i'm being stupid in some way.

she was doing the right thing. and she reacted in an understandable way, when he started being aggressive with her. she felt she was doing the right thing. (which you just said you felt she was too) so didn't understand why he was acting that way toward her.

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:By the way, expect laws to change everywhere very soon in regards to blood samples. With so many pills and so much weed out there, taking blood at traffic stops is going to be the new norm and laws will change to accommodate it.

yeah, maybe. pill pushing has been a thing since my dad was a kid. ritalin and all of that crap. and alcohol has been consumed for a long time in this country. but legal weed may tip the scales. we'll see.

Do you think the opiod epidemic is a media fabrication or something?

i think it's been happening for a long time. hence, 'since my dad was a kid".

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:By the way, expect laws to change everywhere very soon in regards to blood samples. With so many pills and so much weed out there, taking blood at traffic stops is going to be the new norm and laws will change to accommodate it.

yeah, maybe. pill pushing has been a thing since my dad was a kid. ritalin and all of that crap. and alcohol has been consumed for a long time in this country. but legal weed may tip the scales. we'll see.

Do you think the opiod epidemic is a media fabrication or something?

i think it's been happening for a long time. hence, 'since my dad was a kid".

That would imply you do think it is largely a fabrication. Like it is more of the same, not a real urgent issue.

I am not arguing, I have no idea.

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:By the way, expect laws to change everywhere very soon in regards to blood samples. With so many pills and so much weed out there, taking blood at traffic stops is going to be the new norm and laws will change to accommodate it.

yeah, maybe. pill pushing has been a thing since my dad was a kid. ritalin and all of that crap. and alcohol has been consumed for a long time in this country. but legal weed may tip the scales. we'll see.

Do you think the opiod epidemic is a media fabrication or something?

i think it's been happening for a long time. hence, 'since my dad was a kid".

That would imply you do think it is largely a fabrication. Like it is more of the same, not a real urgent issue.

I am not arguing, I have no idea.

it is something that needs to be worked on, absolutely. my point in that ts regarding the need for a change in the laws, regarding blood samples and such. and not about it being a larger societal problem.

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:
She represented herself as the person in charge at that moment. Are you suggesting a dying man be taken to another hospital to gather evidence?

Maybe sometimes we need to focus on doing the right thing instead of focusing on whether or not we are going to be sued. FWIW, I think the nurse was doing that. She was following the hospital policy. Her only mistake was reacting the way she did to the arrest.

no, that is not what i was suggesting. supervisors were on the way. i guess they couldn't reach any kind of solution.

you asked if policy and laws line up. and i said that they should, especially in the case of hospitals. i don't know why you always wanna push the narrative that i'm being stupid in some way.

she was doing the right thing. and she reacted in an understandable way, when he started being aggressive with her. she felt she was doing the right thing. (which you just said you felt she was too) so didn't understand why he was acting that way toward her.

When she started to back away defensively is where she went wrong. Anything else is with hospital or police policy and not her doing.

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:By the way, expect laws to change everywhere very soon in regards to blood samples. With so many pills and so much weed out there, taking blood at traffic stops is going to be the new norm and laws will change to accommodate it.

yeah, maybe. pill pushing has been a thing since my dad was a kid. ritalin and all of that crap. and alcohol has been consumed for a long time in this country. but legal weed may tip the scales. we'll see.

Do you think the opiod epidemic is a media fabrication or something?

i think it's been happening for a long time. hence, 'since my dad was a kid".

That would imply you do think it is largely a fabrication. Like it is more of the same, not a real urgent issue.

I am not arguing, I have no idea.

it is something that needs to be worked on, absolutely. my point in that ts regarding the need for a change in the laws, regarding blood samples and such. and not about it being a larger societal problem.

I guess I am missing something. What was your point in saying that pill pushing has been going on since your dad was a child? No one is saying it is new, but that it has become an epidemic now. Do you disagree that it is an epidemic?

Foo wrote:

showa58taro wrote:Man, I am impressed the length to which Foo will try and defend bad cops.

Cop is at the hospital trying to get evidence so there is justice for the victim and society. Clearly this makes him a bad cop.

I have noticed a trend where some people think any time a cop is doing the tough parts of their job, you know, the parts we would all hate, they are bad.

That's how it goes. Cop jokes about shooting black people or arrests a nurse, there's consequences. You construct elaborate what if scenarios to justify it. Just take the facts at face value and condemn them.

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:
She represented herself as the person in charge at that moment. Are you suggesting a dying man be taken to another hospital to gather evidence?

Maybe sometimes we need to focus on doing the right thing instead of focusing on whether or not we are going to be sued. FWIW, I think the nurse was doing that. She was following the hospital policy. Her only mistake was reacting the way she did to the arrest.

no, that is not what i was suggesting. supervisors were on the way. i guess they couldn't reach any kind of solution.

you asked if policy and laws line up. and i said that they should, especially in the case of hospitals. i don't know why you always wanna push the narrative that i'm being stupid in some way.

she was doing the right thing. and she reacted in an understandable way, when he started being aggressive with her. she felt she was doing the right thing. (which you just said you felt she was too) so didn't understand why he was acting that way toward her.

When she started to back away defensively is where she went wrong. Anything else is with hospital or police policy and not her doing.

he caused her reaction by attempting to take the phone from her. she could have handled it differently, but it's an understandable reaction, given that she was following policy and not doing anything wrong, even by your admittance.

Foo wrote: I guess I am missing something. What was your point in saying that pill pushing has been going on since your dad was a child? No one is saying it is new, but that it has become an epidemic now. Do you disagree that it is an epidemic?

you mentioned that laws were gonna change because of pill popping and legal weed. i don't know that i see the need for that, as substance abuse has been going for a while. it seems like the laws would have been changed already, if there was a need for that. but maybe legal weed is the game changer. i don't know.

is there a larger societal problem? yes, and there has been for a while. do i wanna see that worked on? absolutely. that is a different discussion though.

Literally only Foo and the aggressors think it's cool. Case closed.

showa58taro wrote:

Foo wrote:

showa58taro wrote:Man, I am impressed the length to which Foo will try and defend bad cops.

Cop is at the hospital trying to get evidence so there is justice for the victim and society. Clearly this makes him a bad cop.

I have noticed a trend where some people think any time a cop is doing the tough parts of their job, you know, the parts we would all hate, they are bad.

That's how it goes. Cop jokes about shooting black people or arrests a nurse, there's consequences. You construct elaborate what if scenarios to justify it. Just take the facts at face value and condemn them.

two different situations that don't need to be lumped together. but i agree that creating possible scenarios only clouds the issues. we can look at what we have to go by, to come to a conclusion. if more info comes out, we can adjust to it.

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote: I guess I am missing something. What was your point in saying that pill pushing has been going on since your dad was a child? No one is saying it is new, but that it has become an epidemic now. Do you disagree that it is an epidemic?

you mentioned that laws were gonna change because of pill popping and legal weed. i don't know that i see the need for that, as substance abuse has been going for a while. it seems like the laws would have been changed already, if there was a need for that. but maybe legal weed is the game changer. i don't know.

is there a larger societal problem? yes, and there has been for a while. do i wanna see that worked on? absolutely. that is a different discussion though.

How would you handle people driving under the influence of those substances?

showa58taro wrote:

Foo wrote:

showa58taro wrote:Man, I am impressed the length to which Foo will try and defend bad cops.

Cop is at the hospital trying to get evidence so there is justice for the victim and society. Clearly this makes him a bad cop.

I have noticed a trend where some people think any time a cop is doing the tough parts of their job, you know, the parts we would all hate, they are bad.

That's how it goes. Cop jokes about shooting black people or arrests a nurse, there's consequences. You construct elaborate what if scenarios to justify it. Just take the facts at face value and condemn them.

Isn't that the difference between real life and keyboard warrioring? In real life, there are issues and consequences that go beyond the 2 minute video. There are scenarios that complicate things and moments where facts are unclear.

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Foo wrote:

showa58taro wrote:Man, I am impressed the length to which Foo will try and defend bad cops.

Cop is at the hospital trying to get evidence so there is justice for the victim and society. Clearly this makes him a bad cop.

I have noticed a trend where some people think any time a cop is doing the tough parts of their job, you know, the parts we would all hate, they are bad.

That's how it goes. Cop jokes about shooting black people or arrests a nurse, there's consequences. You construct elaborate what if scenarios to justify it. Just take the facts at face value and condemn them.

two different situations that don't need to be lumped together. but i agree that creating possible scenarios only clouds the issues. we can look at what we have to go by, to come to a conclusion. if more info comes out, we can adjust to it.

In life, do you think most issues that deal with conflicting ethics are clear or cloudy? Privacy and freedom versus security and safety are literally debated every day because it is cloudy.

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Foo wrote:

showa58taro wrote:Man, I am impressed the length to which Foo will try and defend bad cops.

Cop is at the hospital trying to get evidence so there is justice for the victim and society. Clearly this makes him a bad cop.

I have noticed a trend where some people think any time a cop is doing the tough parts of their job, you know, the parts we would all hate, they are bad.

That's how it goes. Cop jokes about shooting black people or arrests a nurse, there's consequences. You construct elaborate what if scenarios to justify it. Just take the facts at face value and condemn them.

two different situations that don't need to be lumped together. but i agree that creating possible scenarios only clouds the issues. we can look at what we have to go by, to come to a conclusion. if more info comes out, we can adjust to it.

For me the blood itself is not the point. The conduct towards a person with no real power and influence is unacceptable. There was literally no reason to try and act like a cunt towards a member of staff. In a just world that cop would be arrested. Abuse of staff doing a hard job is not fair or right. There should be no circumstance in which his rash, rude and abusive behaviour under the guise of "policing" doesn't get thrown out and never hired again.

Foo wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Foo wrote:

showa58taro wrote:Man, I am impressed the length to which Foo will try and defend bad cops.

Cop is at the hospital trying to get evidence so there is justice for the victim and society. Clearly this makes him a bad cop.

I have noticed a trend where some people think any time a cop is doing the tough parts of their job, you know, the parts we would all hate, they are bad.

That's how it goes. Cop jokes about shooting black people or arrests a nurse, there's consequences. You construct elaborate what if scenarios to justify it. Just take the facts at face value and condemn them.

Isn't that the difference between real life and keyboard warrioring? In real life, there are issues and consequences that go beyond the 2 minute video. There are scenarios that complicate things and moments where facts are unclear.

No. That's you trying to craft straw men in order to defend the indefensible because you love a debate.

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Foo wrote:

showa58taro wrote:Man, I am impressed the length to which Foo will try and defend bad cops.

Cop is at the hospital trying to get evidence so there is justice for the victim and society. Clearly this makes him a bad cop.

I have noticed a trend where some people think any time a cop is doing the tough parts of their job, you know, the parts we would all hate, they are bad.

That's how it goes. Cop jokes about shooting black people or arrests a nurse, there's consequences. You construct elaborate what if scenarios to justify it. Just take the facts at face value and condemn them.

two different situations that don't need to be lumped together. but i agree that creating possible scenarios only clouds the issues. we can look at what we have to go by, to come to a conclusion. if more info comes out, we can adjust to it.

For me the blood itself is not the point. The conduct towards a person with no real power and influence is unacceptable. There was literally no reason to try and act like a cunt towards a member of staff. In a just world that cop would be arrested. Abuse of staff doing a hard job is not fair or right. There should be no circumstance in which his rash, rude and abusive behaviour under the guise of "policing" doesn't get thrown out and never hired again.

Does the hospital not have to accept responsibility for placing their staff in that position?