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zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:I like having zombs on my side of an argument someone who reacts with reason not emotions

Sadly he's hit logic with his reason.

no i have hit stubbornness. we're both arguing from logic.

It's true. My point is that I'm not arguing from emotions.

do you feel like i'm arguing from emotions, then?

No. That was Tiggs point. I think we both are approaching the topic rationally. You have a point and I have a point. Both are true in part and false in part. But it's not for me to debunk my argument. That's for you.

showa58taro wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:I like having zombs on my side of an argument someone who reacts with reason not emotions

Sadly he's hit logic with his reason.

The best of us can see further than what's right in front of us I can't always do that. Respect

I feel like I'm being called a Prognosticator. Like a ground hog.

Nah but you may be a slight more emotional driven it's ok though

I thought it was me you were calling emotional. I really don't feel like I am. Bizarre. Genuinely just taking down logically flawed arguments and sticking to my principles. I also love arguing with Zombie. He's actually going to address me as a real person. Notjust a punching bag. There's respect between us.

I hope I don't do that?

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:
Exactly. So saying we shouldn't do something that is right at this point in time because it will possibly lead to something wrong in the future discredits the notion of our ability to see what is right or wrong.

do we know right from wrong? the best of us, absolutely. do we always act, when we should? sadly not always.

So far it seems most act appropriately where statues are concerned. Lee is coming down. Lincoln isn't. Racists are being castigated by everyone except Trump, whereas no major politician except Trump is coming out against those protesting against Mazis. So thisfar the moral and ethical positions seem in tact. Alongside the moral outrage the right statues are being preserved so our ethics align with our actions right now.

Tiggnutz wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:I like having zombs on my side of an argument someone who reacts with reason not emotions

Sadly he's hit logic with his reason.

The best of us can see further than what's right in front of us I can't always do that. Respect

I feel like I'm being called a Prognosticator. Like a ground hog.

Nah but you may be a slight more emotional driven it's ok though

I thought it was me you were calling emotional. I really don't feel like I am. Bizarre. Genuinely just taking down logically flawed arguments and sticking to my principles. I also love arguing with Zombie. He's actually going to address me as a real person. Notjust a punching bag. There's respect between us.

I hope I don't do that?

Mainly Jason.

I being completely honest think that we should have monuments depicting the civil war you can't erase your past by cutting up pictures or deleting shit if you get my meaning

showa58taro wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:I like having zombs on my side of an argument someone who reacts with reason not emotions

Sadly he's hit logic with his reason.

The best of us can see further than what's right in front of us I can't always do that. Respect

I feel like I'm being called a Prognosticator. Like a ground hog.

Nah but you may be a slight more emotional driven it's ok though

I thought it was me you were calling emotional. I really don't feel like I am. Bizarre. Genuinely just taking down logically flawed arguments and sticking to my principles. I also love arguing with Zombie. He's actually going to address me as a real person. Notjust a punching bag. There's respect between us.

my arguments don't seem to be logically flawed? people are pushing for censorship and vandalizing monuments. it started, recently, with confederate figures. then to slave owners and civil war figures. so my argument is logical and reasoned. where is the flaw?

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:I like having zombs on my side of an argument someone who reacts with reason not emotions

Sadly he's hit logic with his reason.

The best of us can see further than what's right in front of us I can't always do that. Respect

I feel like I'm being called a Prognosticator. Like a ground hog.

Nah but you may be a slight more emotional driven it's ok though

I thought it was me you were calling emotional. I really don't feel like I am. Bizarre. Genuinely just taking down logically flawed arguments and sticking to my principles. I also love arguing with Zombie. He's actually going to address me as a real person. Notjust a punching bag. There's respect between us.

my arguments don't seem to be logically flawed? people are pushing for censorship and vandalizing monuments. it started, recently, with confederate figures. then to slave owners and civil war figures. so my argument is logical and reasoned. where is the flaw?

Slippery Slope Fallacy and Causation-Correlation Fallacy plus the false equivocation of the totality of America opposing Nazis and their love of racist monuments with a small handful pretending longer term historical figures are equated.

showa58taro wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:I like having zombs on my side of an argument someone who reacts with reason not emotions

Sadly he's hit logic with his reason.

The best of us can see further than what's right in front of us I can't always do that. Respect

I feel like I'm being called a Prognosticator. Like a ground hog.

Nah but you may be a slight more emotional driven it's ok though

I thought it was me you were calling emotional. I really don't feel like I am. Bizarre. Genuinely just taking down logically flawed arguments and sticking to my principles. I also love arguing with Zombie. He's actually going to address me as a real person. Notjust a punching bag. There's respect between us.

I hope I don't do that?

Mainly Jason.

Don't like speaking for him but it's definitely emotions with his posts and I see his point in some. People see things differently I see where the current events of the last few years have painted people as you are racist if you don't agree fully with the wave of popular thought. Normal people get swallowed up and grouped.

Tiggnutz wrote:I being completely honest think that we should have monuments depicting the civil war you can't erase your past by cutting up pictures or deleting shit if you get my meaning

Fair enough. Glorifying and forgetting aren't on the same plane for me. I can't recall seeing a single Hitler or Goebbels statue. But I remember who they are. The past is still there. If anything it'd be good to erase revisionist ideals.

I bet if we all really knew each other it would be so much easier to interpret.

Tiggnutz wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:I like having zombs on my side of an argument someone who reacts with reason not emotions

Sadly he's hit logic with his reason.

The best of us can see further than what's right in front of us I can't always do that. Respect

I feel like I'm being called a Prognosticator. Like a ground hog.

Nah but you may be a slight more emotional driven it's ok though

I thought it was me you were calling emotional. I really don't feel like I am. Bizarre. Genuinely just taking down logically flawed arguments and sticking to my principles. I also love arguing with Zombie. He's actually going to address me as a real person. Notjust a punching bag. There's respect between us.

I hope I don't do that?

Mainly Jason.

Don't like speaking for him but it's definitely emotions with his posts and I see his point in some. People see things differently I see where the current events of the last few years have painted people as you are racist if you don't agree fully with the wave of popular thought. Normal people get swallowed up and grouped.

Grouped together? Like "leftists" and "Libs" and "Fake News"

showa58taro wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:I being completely honest think that we should have monuments depicting the civil war you can't erase your past by cutting up pictures or deleting shit if you get my meaning

Fair enough. Glorifying and forgetting aren't on the same plane for me. I can't recall seeing a single Hitler or Goebbels statue. But I remember who they are. The past is still there. If anything it'd be good to erase revisionist ideals.

Its tricky for sure

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:
Exactly. So saying we shouldn't do something that is right at this point in time because it will possibly lead to something wrong in the future discredits the notion of our ability to see what is right or wrong.

do we know right from wrong? the best of us, absolutely. do we always act, when we should? sadly not always.

So far it seems most act appropriately where statues are concerned. Lee is coming down. Lincoln isn't. Racists are being castigated by everyone except Trump, whereas no major politician except Trump is coming out against those protesting against Mazis. So thisfar the moral and ethical positions seem in tact. Alongside the moral outrage the right statues are being preserved so our ethics align with our actions right now.

yeah, so far, the censorship (official or vigilante) hasn't gone beyond civil war figures and slave owners. i hope that that will sate the people who seek censorship as the right way to handle this.

i stick by my position that the white nationalists and their actions are where the focus should be. i don't think that removing a statue will work to end hatred or racism or bigotry.

any symbol or historic figure, or work of art/fiction can be taken as inspiration or justification. it all comes from within people. it comes from the mind. not from the external. a statue only stands. a person thinks and acts and hates.

showa58taro wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:I like having zombs on my side of an argument someone who reacts with reason not emotions

Sadly he's hit logic with his reason.

The best of us can see further than what's right in front of us I can't always do that. Respect

I feel like I'm being called a Prognosticator. Like a ground hog.

Nah but you may be a slight more emotional driven it's ok though

I thought it was me you were calling emotional. I really don't feel like I am. Bizarre. Genuinely just taking down logically flawed arguments and sticking to my principles. I also love arguing with Zombie. He's actually going to address me as a real person. Notjust a punching bag. There's respect between us.

I hope I don't do that?

Mainly Jason.

Don't like speaking for him but it's definitely emotions with his posts and I see his point in some. People see things differently I see where the current events of the last few years have painted people as you are racist if you don't agree fully with the wave of popular thought. Normal people get swallowed up and grouped.

Grouped together? Like "leftists" and "Libs" and "Fake News"

Yes exactly not everyone is extreme

Tiggnutz wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:I being completely honest think that we should have monuments depicting the civil war you can't erase your past by cutting up pictures or deleting shit if you get my meaning

Fair enough. Glorifying and forgetting aren't on the same plane for me. I can't recall seeing a single Hitler or Goebbels statue. But I remember who they are. The past is still there. If anything it'd be good to erase revisionist ideals.

Its tricky for sure

I guess for me the question is (or should be) whether the Confederacy and Lee would really be forgotten without the statues. If so then is that really a loss.

I'm old and dating myself but I couldn't wait for Friday nights as a kid to watch Dukes of Hazzard. Had no idea about anything but the Duke boys and there super awesome car helping people and catching bad guys. Now I hear the car promoted slavery is just ridiculous to me.

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:I like having zombs on my side of an argument someone who reacts with reason not emotions

Sadly he's hit logic with his reason.

The best of us can see further than what's right in front of us I can't always do that. Respect

I feel like I'm being called a Prognosticator. Like a ground hog.

Nah but you may be a slight more emotional driven it's ok though

I thought it was me you were calling emotional. I really don't feel like I am. Bizarre. Genuinely just taking down logically flawed arguments and sticking to my principles. I also love arguing with Zombie. He's actually going to address me as a real person. Notjust a punching bag. There's respect between us.

my arguments don't seem to be logically flawed? people are pushing for censorship and vandalizing monuments. it started, recently, with confederate figures. then to slave owners and civil war figures. so my argument is logical and reasoned. where is the flaw?

Slippery Slope Fallacy and Causation-Correlation Fallacy plus the false equivocation of the totality of America opposing Nazis and their love of racist monuments with a small handful pretending longer term historical figures are equated.

the near totality of americans do absolutely hate and oppose nazis and extremists and supremacists. i am not pretending otherwise. you're trying to twist my position to be a fallacy, when it is not. i can see that things are already starting to move further, than where you think they should stop. so yeah. my hope is that they do stop at a certain point, that isn't too far from actual confederate figures and slave owners in our history.

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:
Exactly. So saying we shouldn't do something that is right at this point in time because it will possibly lead to something wrong in the future discredits the notion of our ability to see what is right or wrong.

do we know right from wrong? the best of us, absolutely. do we always act, when we should? sadly not always.

So far it seems most act appropriately where statues are concerned. Lee is coming down. Lincoln isn't. Racists are being castigated by everyone except Trump, whereas no major politician except Trump is coming out against those protesting against Mazis. So thisfar the moral and ethical positions seem in tact. Alongside the moral outrage the right statues are being preserved so our ethics align with our actions right now.

yeah, so far, the censorship (official or vigilante) hasn't gone beyond civil war figures and slave owners. i hope that that will sate the people who seek censorship as the right way to handle this.

i stick by my position that the white nationalists and their actions are where the focus should be. i don't think that removing a statue will work to end hatred or racism or bigotry.

any symbol or historic figure, or work of art/fiction can be taken as inspiration or justification. it all comes from within people. it comes from the mind. not from the external. a statue only stands. a person thinks and acts and hates.

True. The statues aren't wrong because of what they make Nazis do. Nazis are wrong because of what Nazis do.

Tiggnutz wrote:I'm old and dating myself but I couldn't wait for Friday nights as a kid to watch Dukes of Hazzard. Had no idea about anything but the Duke boys and there super awesome car helping people and catching bad guys. Now I hear the car promoted slavery is just ridiculous to me.

I'm not familiar with the Dukes. But sone things get very dated and are hard to watch again.

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:I like having zombs on my side of an argument someone who reacts with reason not emotions

Sadly he's hit logic with his reason.

The best of us can see further than what's right in front of us I can't always do that. Respect

I feel like I'm being called a Prognosticator. Like a ground hog.

Nah but you may be a slight more emotional driven it's ok though

I thought it was me you were calling emotional. I really don't feel like I am. Bizarre. Genuinely just taking down logically flawed arguments and sticking to my principles. I also love arguing with Zombie. He's actually going to address me as a real person. Notjust a punching bag. There's respect between us.

my arguments don't seem to be logically flawed? people are pushing for censorship and vandalizing monuments. it started, recently, with confederate figures. then to slave owners and civil war figures. so my argument is logical and reasoned. where is the flaw?

Slippery Slope Fallacy and Causation-Correlation Fallacy plus the false equivocation of the totality of America opposing Nazis and their love of racist monuments with a small handful pretending longer term historical figures are equated.

the near totality of americans do absolutely hate and oppose nazis and extremists and supremacists. i am not pretending otherwise. you're trying to twist my position to be a fallacy, when it is not. i can see that things are already starting to move further, than where you think they should stop. so yeah. my hope is that they do stop at a certain point, that isn't too far from actual confederate figures and slave owners in our history.

You've literally just used the fallacy to describe the fallacy you're not using. My man.

Sadly this has been awesome but I have an early start. Need to sleep. Later Z, Tigg.