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Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote: I guess I am missing something. What was your point in saying that pill pushing has been going on since your dad was a child? No one is saying it is new, but that it has become an epidemic now. Do you disagree that it is an epidemic?

you mentioned that laws were gonna change because of pill popping and legal weed. i don't know that i see the need for that, as substance abuse has been going for a while. it seems like the laws would have been changed already, if there was a need for that. but maybe legal weed is the game changer. i don't know.

is there a larger societal problem? yes, and there has been for a while. do i wanna see that worked on? absolutely. that is a different discussion though.

How would you handle people driving under the influence of those substances?

i think that if there is need to draw blood. you can bring them somewhere to do that. i don;t know why it would need to become a thing for traffic stops in general. if there is a problem, treat them the same way that you would for anyone driving in a way that causes a hazard or potential hazard.

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Foo wrote:

showa58taro wrote:Man, I am impressed the length to which Foo will try and defend bad cops.

Cop is at the hospital trying to get evidence so there is justice for the victim and society. Clearly this makes him a bad cop.

I have noticed a trend where some people think any time a cop is doing the tough parts of their job, you know, the parts we would all hate, they are bad.

That's how it goes. Cop jokes about shooting black people or arrests a nurse, there's consequences. You construct elaborate what if scenarios to justify it. Just take the facts at face value and condemn them.

two different situations that don't need to be lumped together. but i agree that creating possible scenarios only clouds the issues. we can look at what we have to go by, to come to a conclusion. if more info comes out, we can adjust to it.

In life, do you think most issues that deal with conflicting ethics are clear or cloudy? Privacy and freedom versus security and safety are literally debated every day because it is cloudy.

yeah, it's cloudy on it's own. you don't need to make it more cloudy.

showa58taro wrote:

Foo wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Foo wrote:

showa58taro wrote:Man, I am impressed the length to which Foo will try and defend bad cops.

Cop is at the hospital trying to get evidence so there is justice for the victim and society. Clearly this makes him a bad cop.

I have noticed a trend where some people think any time a cop is doing the tough parts of their job, you know, the parts we would all hate, they are bad.

That's how it goes. Cop jokes about shooting black people or arrests a nurse, there's consequences. You construct elaborate what if scenarios to justify it. Just take the facts at face value and condemn them.

Isn't that the difference between real life and keyboard warrioring? In real life, there are issues and consequences that go beyond the 2 minute video. There are scenarios that complicate things and moments where facts are unclear.

No. That's you trying to craft straw men in order to defend the indefensible because you love a debate.

Someone has to bring humanity to the glorious perfection that some seem to think is reality.

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Foo wrote:

showa58taro wrote:Man, I am impressed the length to which Foo will try and defend bad cops.

Cop is at the hospital trying to get evidence so there is justice for the victim and society. Clearly this makes him a bad cop.

I have noticed a trend where some people think any time a cop is doing the tough parts of their job, you know, the parts we would all hate, they are bad.

That's how it goes. Cop jokes about shooting black people or arrests a nurse, there's consequences. You construct elaborate what if scenarios to justify it. Just take the facts at face value and condemn them.

two different situations that don't need to be lumped together. but i agree that creating possible scenarios only clouds the issues. we can look at what we have to go by, to come to a conclusion. if more info comes out, we can adjust to it.

For me the blood itself is not the point. The conduct towards a person with no real power and influence is unacceptable. There was literally no reason to try and act like a cunt towards a member of staff. In a just world that cop would be arrested. Abuse of staff doing a hard job is not fair or right. There should be no circumstance in which his rash, rude and abusive behaviour under the guise of "policing" doesn't get thrown out and never hired again.

i am on your side, more or less, in regard to the cop at the hospital.

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote: I guess I am missing something. What was your point in saying that pill pushing has been going on since your dad was a child? No one is saying it is new, but that it has become an epidemic now. Do you disagree that it is an epidemic?

you mentioned that laws were gonna change because of pill popping and legal weed. i don't know that i see the need for that, as substance abuse has been going for a while. it seems like the laws would have been changed already, if there was a need for that. but maybe legal weed is the game changer. i don't know.

is there a larger societal problem? yes, and there has been for a while. do i wanna see that worked on? absolutely. that is a different discussion though.

How would you handle people driving under the influence of those substances?

i think that if there is need to draw blood. you can bring them somewhere to do that. i don;t know why it would need to become a thing for traffic stops in general. if there is a problem, treat them the same way that you would for anyone driving in a way that causes a hazard or potential hazard.

Why bring them somewhere when you can do it during the stop? Do you disagree with drunk driving laws, and only feel the traffic violations should be enforced?

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote: I guess I am missing something. What was your point in saying that pill pushing has been going on since your dad was a child? No one is saying it is new, but that it has become an epidemic now. Do you disagree that it is an epidemic?

you mentioned that laws were gonna change because of pill popping and legal weed. i don't know that i see the need for that, as substance abuse has been going for a while. it seems like the laws would have been changed already, if there was a need for that. but maybe legal weed is the game changer. i don't know.

is there a larger societal problem? yes, and there has been for a while. do i wanna see that worked on? absolutely. that is a different discussion though.

How would you handle people driving under the influence of those substances?

i think that if there is need to draw blood. you can bring them somewhere to do that. i don;t know why it would need to become a thing for traffic stops in general. if there is a problem, treat them the same way that you would for anyone driving in a way that causes a hazard or potential hazard.

Why bring them somewhere when you can do it during the stop? Do you disagree with drunk driving laws, and only feel the traffic violations should be enforced?

you were saying the laws need to be changed from what they are now. but then you're asking if i disagree with laws as they are currently? it seems like you want to argue two different things simultaneously and switch between them as in suits you at any given point. i feel like that is a trap.

Am I missing something with the fucking Nurse story? "The incident began when a truck driver was severely burned in a head-on crash with a vehicle that was fleeing from police in Cache County and crossed into on-coming traffic. The driver of the fleeing vehicle was killed." So a fucking dirtbag that was fleeing from police got killed from crossing over into on-coming traffic and put a poor truck driver into a burned induced coma, and the cops want the burn victims blood for fucking what? Am I reading this shit wrong?

Reign in Blood wrote:Am I missing something with the fucking Nurse story? "The incident began when a truck driver was severely burned in a head-on crash with a vehicle that was fleeing from police in Cache County and crossed into on-coming traffic. The driver of the fleeing vehicle was killed." So a fucking dirtbag that was fleeing from police got killed from crossing over into on-coming traffic and put a poor truck driver into a burned induced coma, and the cops want the burn victims blood for fucking what? Am I reading this shit wrong?

Truck driver has a CDL most likely. Giving a blood test after an accident is standard procedure. He could actually lose his license for awhile depending upon how the clown show that is our government looks at him not having the blood test. That is what I was getting at, the evidence can protect the victim.

My father has a CDL for our food business, not the low level kind delivery drivers have, but the hazmat one because we haul fuels and gases, and it is a pain.

Foo wrote:

Reign in Blood wrote:Am I missing something with the fucking Nurse story? "The incident began when a truck driver was severely burned in a head-on crash with a vehicle that was fleeing from police in Cache County and crossed into on-coming traffic. The driver of the fleeing vehicle was killed." So a fucking dirtbag that was fleeing from police got killed from crossing over into on-coming traffic and put a poor truck driver into a burned induced coma, and the cops want the burn victims blood for fucking what? Am I reading this shit wrong?

Truck driver has a CDL most likely. Giving a blood test after an accident is standard procedure. He could actually lose his license for awhile depending upon how the clown show that is our government looks at him not having the blood test. That is what I was getting at, the evidence can protect the victim.

My father has a CDL for our food business, not the low level kind delivery drivers have, but the hazmat one because we haul fuels and gases, and it is a pain.

Brother Foo, gave me pause with that. Now, the Cops could have illustrated that finer point instead of coming across like they just wanted it. And even then she still resists, fine, it'll be on you Ms. Nurse. No reason to get all militant in a situation where it's more important that this guy is fighting to live, let alone drive a fucking truck again.

Foo wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Foo wrote:

showa58taro wrote:Man, I am impressed the length to which Foo will try and defend bad cops.

Cop is at the hospital trying to get evidence so there is justice for the victim and society. Clearly this makes him a bad cop.

I have noticed a trend where some people think any time a cop is doing the tough parts of their job, you know, the parts we would all hate, they are bad.

That's how it goes. Cop jokes about shooting black people or arrests a nurse, there's consequences. You construct elaborate what if scenarios to justify it. Just take the facts at face value and condemn them.

two different situations that don't need to be lumped together. but i agree that creating possible scenarios only clouds the issues. we can look at what we have to go by, to come to a conclusion. if more info comes out, we can adjust to it.

For me the blood itself is not the point. The conduct towards a person with no real power and influence is unacceptable. There was literally no reason to try and act like a cunt towards a member of staff. In a just world that cop would be arrested. Abuse of staff doing a hard job is not fair or right. There should be no circumstance in which his rash, rude and abusive behaviour under the guise of "policing" doesn't get thrown out and never hired again.

Does the hospital not have to accept responsibility for placing their staff in that position?

The position of ringing their supervisor and adhering to policy? No. They did everything fine in my book.

Reign in Blood wrote:

Foo wrote:

Reign in Blood wrote:Am I missing something with the fucking Nurse story? "The incident began when a truck driver was severely burned in a head-on crash with a vehicle that was fleeing from police in Cache County and crossed into on-coming traffic. The driver of the fleeing vehicle was killed." So a fucking dirtbag that was fleeing from police got killed from crossing over into on-coming traffic and put a poor truck driver into a burned induced coma, and the cops want the burn victims blood for fucking what? Am I reading this shit wrong?

Truck driver has a CDL most likely. Giving a blood test after an accident is standard procedure. He could actually lose his license for awhile depending upon how the clown show that is our government looks at him not having the blood test. That is what I was getting at, the evidence can protect the victim.

My father has a CDL for our food business, not the low level kind delivery drivers have, but the hazmat one because we haul fuels and gases, and it is a pain.

Brother Foo, gave me pause with that. Now, the Cops could have illustrated that finer point instead of coming across like they just wanted it. And even then she still resists, fine, it'll be on you Ms. Nurse. No reason to get all militant in a situation where it's more important that this guy is fighting to live, let alone drive a fucking truck again.

It shouldn't have been a conversation with the nurse. He needed to talk to the higher ups using his higher ups.

I didn't think of that.....Foo is 100 percent correct in that with any accident, if you drive a truck, you are drug tested. But is it the cops job or the employers job? Or both? Lol

showa58taro wrote:

Reign in Blood wrote:

Foo wrote:

Reign in Blood wrote:Am I missing something with the fucking Nurse story? "The incident began when a truck driver was severely burned in a head-on crash with a vehicle that was fleeing from police in Cache County and crossed into on-coming traffic. The driver of the fleeing vehicle was killed." So a fucking dirtbag that was fleeing from police got killed from crossing over into on-coming traffic and put a poor truck driver into a burned induced coma, and the cops want the burn victims blood for fucking what? Am I reading this shit wrong?

Truck driver has a CDL most likely. Giving a blood test after an accident is standard procedure. He could actually lose his license for awhile depending upon how the clown show that is our government looks at him not having the blood test. That is what I was getting at, the evidence can protect the victim.

My father has a CDL for our food business, not the low level kind delivery drivers have, but the hazmat one because we haul fuels and gases, and it is a pain.

Brother Foo, gave me pause with that. Now, the Cops could have illustrated that finer point instead of coming across like they just wanted it. And even then she still resists, fine, it'll be on you Ms. Nurse. No reason to get all militant in a situation where it's more important that this guy is fighting to live, let alone drive a fucking truck again.

It shouldn't have been a conversation with the nurse. He needed to talk to the higher ups using his higher ups.

And that is where I'm with Foo. When time is of the essence. She was in charge because her higher ups were busy or more likely couldn't be bothered. Same for his higher ups, except they may be too stupid to even bother with. I'd trust shit getting done right and more efficient from groundlings then I ever would from upper-management weasels.

Reign in Blood wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Reign in Blood wrote:

Foo wrote:

Reign in Blood wrote:Am I missing something with the fucking Nurse story? "The incident began when a truck driver was severely burned in a head-on crash with a vehicle that was fleeing from police in Cache County and crossed into on-coming traffic. The driver of the fleeing vehicle was killed." So a fucking dirtbag that was fleeing from police got killed from crossing over into on-coming traffic and put a poor truck driver into a burned induced coma, and the cops want the burn victims blood for fucking what? Am I reading this shit wrong?

Truck driver has a CDL most likely. Giving a blood test after an accident is standard procedure. He could actually lose his license for awhile depending upon how the clown show that is our government looks at him not having the blood test. That is what I was getting at, the evidence can protect the victim.

My father has a CDL for our food business, not the low level kind delivery drivers have, but the hazmat one because we haul fuels and gases, and it is a pain.

Brother Foo, gave me pause with that. Now, the Cops could have illustrated that finer point instead of coming across like they just wanted it. And even then she still resists, fine, it'll be on you Ms. Nurse. No reason to get all militant in a situation where it's more important that this guy is fighting to live, let alone drive a fucking truck again.

It shouldn't have been a conversation with the nurse. He needed to talk to the higher ups using his higher ups.

And that is where I'm with Foo. When time is of the essence. She was in charge because her higher ups were busy or more likely couldn't be bothered. Same for his higher ups, except they may too stupid to even bother with. I'd trust shit getting done right and more efficient from groundlings then I ever would from upper-management weasels.

Her higher ups are literally on the phone though. Clearly telling her not to do that. She no longer has any grounds or authority to make the call. That's now gone. Fine if you want the cop to talk and not his boss. But the cop was clearly arguing for an exception to be made due to circumstance. If they say no and stick to the written rules you're out of luck. The end.

showa58taro wrote:

Reign in Blood wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Reign in Blood wrote:

Foo wrote:

Reign in Blood wrote:Am I missing something with the fucking Nurse story? "The incident began when a truck driver was severely burned in a head-on crash with a vehicle that was fleeing from police in Cache County and crossed into on-coming traffic. The driver of the fleeing vehicle was killed." So a fucking dirtbag that was fleeing from police got killed from crossing over into on-coming traffic and put a poor truck driver into a burned induced coma, and the cops want the burn victims blood for fucking what? Am I reading this shit wrong?

Truck driver has a CDL most likely. Giving a blood test after an accident is standard procedure. He could actually lose his license for awhile depending upon how the clown show that is our government looks at him not having the blood test. That is what I was getting at, the evidence can protect the victim.

My father has a CDL for our food business, not the low level kind delivery drivers have, but the hazmat one because we haul fuels and gases, and it is a pain.

Brother Foo, gave me pause with that. Now, the Cops could have illustrated that finer point instead of coming across like they just wanted it. And even then she still resists, fine, it'll be on you Ms. Nurse. No reason to get all militant in a situation where it's more important that this guy is fighting to live, let alone drive a fucking truck again.

It shouldn't have been a conversation with the nurse. He needed to talk to the higher ups using his higher ups.

And that is where I'm with Foo. When time is of the essence. She was in charge because her higher ups were busy or more likely couldn't be bothered. Same for his higher ups, except they may too stupid to even bother with. I'd trust shit getting done right and more efficient from groundlings then I ever would from upper-management weasels.

Her higher ups are literally on the phone though. Clearly telling her not to do that. She no longer has any grounds or authority to make the call. That's now gone. Fine if you want the cop to talk and not his boss. But the cop was clearly arguing for an exception to be made due to circumstance. If they say no and stick to the written rules you're out of luck. The end.

And the cop made a bad call. Walk away and it's on you nurse for him losing his CDL.

Reign in Blood wrote:

Foo wrote:

Reign in Blood wrote:Am I missing something with the fucking Nurse story? "The incident began when a truck driver was severely burned in a head-on crash with a vehicle that was fleeing from police in Cache County and crossed into on-coming traffic. The driver of the fleeing vehicle was killed." So a fucking dirtbag that was fleeing from police got killed from crossing over into on-coming traffic and put a poor truck driver into a burned induced coma, and the cops want the burn victims blood for fucking what? Am I reading this shit wrong?

Truck driver has a CDL most likely. Giving a blood test after an accident is standard procedure. He could actually lose his license for awhile depending upon how the clown show that is our government looks at him not having the blood test. That is what I was getting at, the evidence can protect the victim.

My father has a CDL for our food business, not the low level kind delivery drivers have, but the hazmat one because we haul fuels and gases, and it is a pain.

Brother Foo, gave me pause with that. Now, the Cops could have illustrated that finer point instead of coming across like they just wanted it. And even then she still resists, fine, it'll be on you Ms. Nurse. No reason to get all militant in a situation where it's more important that this guy is fighting to live, let alone drive a fucking truck again.

Here is the thing, she may not have the right to resist his testing. You do give up rights in certain jobs. With a CDL, certain things are no longer optional.

I would say that ultimately something is wrong when a situation ends up with a nurse in handcuffs. Clarification is obviously needed, and I am not gonna blame it all on the cop until more information is available. I am working under the assumption he is at the hospital to draw blood from the victim for a good, legal reason, nut because he is trying to resurrect Nosferatu or something.

Foo wrote:

Reign in Blood wrote:

Foo wrote:

Reign in Blood wrote:Am I missing something with the fucking Nurse story? "The incident began when a truck driver was severely burned in a head-on crash with a vehicle that was fleeing from police in Cache County and crossed into on-coming traffic. The driver of the fleeing vehicle was killed." So a fucking dirtbag that was fleeing from police got killed from crossing over into on-coming traffic and put a poor truck driver into a burned induced coma, and the cops want the burn victims blood for fucking what? Am I reading this shit wrong?

Truck driver has a CDL most likely. Giving a blood test after an accident is standard procedure. He could actually lose his license for awhile depending upon how the clown show that is our government looks at him not having the blood test. That is what I was getting at, the evidence can protect the victim.

My father has a CDL for our food business, not the low level kind delivery drivers have, but the hazmat one because we haul fuels and gases, and it is a pain.

Brother Foo, gave me pause with that. Now, the Cops could have illustrated that finer point instead of coming across like they just wanted it. And even then she still resists, fine, it'll be on you Ms. Nurse. No reason to get all militant in a situation where it's more important that this guy is fighting to live, let alone drive a fucking truck again.

Here is the thing, she may not have the right to resist his testing. You do give up rights in certain jobs. With a CDL, certain things are no longer optional.

I would say that ultimately something is wrong when a situation ends up with a nurse in handcuffs. Clarification is obviously needed, and I am not gonna blame it all on the cop until more information is available. I am working under the assumption he is at the hospital to draw blood from the victim for a good, legal reason, nut because he is trying to resurrect Nosferatu or something.

Resurrection of a vampire would be a good fucking reason, imo.

showa58taro wrote:

Reign in Blood wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Reign in Blood wrote:

Foo wrote:

Reign in Blood wrote:Am I missing something with the fucking Nurse story? "The incident began when a truck driver was severely burned in a head-on crash with a vehicle that was fleeing from police in Cache County and crossed into on-coming traffic. The driver of the fleeing vehicle was killed." So a fucking dirtbag that was fleeing from police got killed from crossing over into on-coming traffic and put a poor truck driver into a burned induced coma, and the cops want the burn victims blood for fucking what? Am I reading this shit wrong?

Truck driver has a CDL most likely. Giving a blood test after an accident is standard procedure. He could actually lose his license for awhile depending upon how the clown show that is our government looks at him not having the blood test. That is what I was getting at, the evidence can protect the victim.

My father has a CDL for our food business, not the low level kind delivery drivers have, but the hazmat one because we haul fuels and gases, and it is a pain.

Brother Foo, gave me pause with that. Now, the Cops could have illustrated that finer point instead of coming across like they just wanted it. And even then she still resists, fine, it'll be on you Ms. Nurse. No reason to get all militant in a situation where it's more important that this guy is fighting to live, let alone drive a fucking truck again.

It shouldn't have been a conversation with the nurse. He needed to talk to the higher ups using his higher ups.

And that is where I'm with Foo. When time is of the essence. She was in charge because her higher ups were busy or more likely couldn't be bothered. Same for his higher ups, except they may too stupid to even bother with. I'd trust shit getting done right and more efficient from groundlings then I ever would from upper-management weasels.

Her higher ups are literally on the phone though. Clearly telling her not to do that. She no longer has any grounds or authority to make the call. That's now gone. Fine if you want the cop to talk and not his boss. But the cop was clearly arguing for an exception to be made due to circumstance. If they say no and stick to the written rules you're out of luck. The end.

Uh, what makes you believe the hospital has the right to obstruct justice?

If the police request was a lawful one, they are doing just that. Hospitals do not determine law, nor do the police. Courts have ruled on exceptions to arrests, warrants, and consent. Is this one of those? I don't know and neither does anyone else passing judgement.

Jmac Attack wrote:I didn't think of that.....Foo is 100 percent correct in that with any accident, if you drive a truck, you are drug tested. But is it the cops job or the employers job? Or both? Lol

Cops enforce CDL licensing and regulation in cooperation with DOT and local DMV. Cops have actually been to my parents house to inspect the food truck, we have been forced to weigh the truck by cops, and cops have requested to see the travel logs.

My father receives requests to have his blood tested I think through the DOT at a private lab. They also require logs to be digitally transmitted from his CPAP machine that aids his sleep apnea. It is pretty crazy, especially considering most of the time we are only traveling a few miles.

showa58taro wrote:

Foo wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Foo wrote:

showa58taro wrote:Man, I am impressed the length to which Foo will try and defend bad cops.

Cop is at the hospital trying to get evidence so there is justice for the victim and society. Clearly this makes him a bad cop.

I have noticed a trend where some people think any time a cop is doing the tough parts of their job, you know, the parts we would all hate, they are bad.

That's how it goes. Cop jokes about shooting black people or arrests a nurse, there's consequences. You construct elaborate what if scenarios to justify it. Just take the facts at face value and condemn them.

two different situations that don't need to be lumped together. but i agree that creating possible scenarios only clouds the issues. we can look at what we have to go by, to come to a conclusion. if more info comes out, we can adjust to it.

For me the blood itself is not the point. The conduct towards a person with no real power and influence is unacceptable. There was literally no reason to try and act like a cunt towards a member of staff. In a just world that cop would be arrested. Abuse of staff doing a hard job is not fair or right. There should be no circumstance in which his rash, rude and abusive behaviour under the guise of "policing" doesn't get thrown out and never hired again.

Does the hospital not have to accept responsibility for placing their staff in that position?

The position of ringing their supervisor and adhering to policy? No. They did everything fine in my book.

We obviously subscribe to different books. I am all about getting past the bureaucratic bullshit so people can actually be productive. Call the supervisor, object, let them take the blood and leave. If later, the blood is ruled inadmissible, then you were correct. If it was the proper action by police, you were still correct.

Cops get to cop, nurses get to nurse, and the bureaucrats look to make themselves appear to be useful.