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showa58taro wrote:
Why is that not the right way to start it? When will cops be taught something other than murder is exactly the point. If you give a man only a hammer then every problem looks like a nail. The failing there is the teaching not the student. It's exactly my point that they aren't taught ways to approach high-tension situations in any way other than with guns drawn and tensions high. Hence the shooting of people with toy guns, knives, or even phones.

The core issue is the fact that there is not enough emphasis from the top down on how to do the job peacefully when possible.

enh... you don't want to label all cops, but you're labeling all cops, seemingly.

i think there should be an emphasis on defense, over offense. and i think that accountability within the force should be handled better. but i do not think that labeling all cops as violent fucking assholes is the way to go. it only makes them fore aggressive, and more on edge.

just like you said, that you don't want cops to assume any situation they're going into is violent or offensive, you don't want to assume that any cop is going into a situation violently or offensively. de-escalation has to work both ways. though, certainly, the cop has more authority and so more necessity to act in a way that does not make the situation go south.

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote: I cited the exception. I'm trying to figure out why it's not becoming the rule.

i think it is the rule. i think most cops are not militant or bad. where are you pulling from?

Stuff like this. http://www.apmreports.org/story/2017/05 ... n-training

Or this

Headhunter wrote:And almost no accountability for the ones who do cross the line just keeps the cycle going. Good police officers should be helping to root out the ones that make their lives harder, not use their union resources to protect every officer at all costs.

i completely agree with that.

At the very least, how the hell is the cop not charged with reckless endangerment? He shot into a car with a 4 year old kid in it...

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote: I cited the exception. I'm trying to figure out why it's not becoming the rule.

i think it is the rule. i think most cops are not militant or bad. where are you pulling from?

Stuff like this. http://www.apmreports.org/story/2017/05 ... n-training

Or this

in regard to the cop that that article seems to primarily be about. (though i haven't read it all through yet) i can't say that he acted badly. he maybe could have handled it differently, i guess, sure. but i can't call him out for how he did act given that situation. he was in an actual threatening situation and he acted. he wasn't being reckless, or being an asshole. he wasn't acting as if there was a threat, when there was none. so yeah.

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:
Why is that not the right way to start it? When will cops be taught something other than murder is exactly the point. If you give a man only a hammer then every problem looks like a nail. The failing there is the teaching not the student. It's exactly my point that they aren't taught ways to approach high-tension situations in any way other than with guns drawn and tensions high. Hence the shooting of people with toy guns, knives, or even phones.

The core issue is the fact that there is not enough emphasis from the top down on how to do the job peacefully when possible.

enh... you don't want to label all cops, but you're labeling all cops, seemingly.

i think there should be an emphasis on defense, over offense. and i think that accountability within the force should be handled better. but i do not think that labeling all cops as violent fucking assholes is the way to go. it only makes them fore aggressive, and more on edge.

just like you said, that you don't want cops to assume any situation they're going into is violent or offensive, you don't want to assume that any cop is going into a situation violently or offensively. de-escalation has to work both ways. though, certainly, the cop has more authority and so more necessity to act in a way that does not make the situation go south.

How about an emphasis on conversation? Calm conversation too. Not panicked full volume shouting with your gun drawn waiting for the first conclusion to jump to. This traffic stop could have been a calm conversation with everyone covering their bases. At worst, Castile gets cited for his busted tail light and the marijuana. In no way was the cop's gung-ho reaction after learning about the gun appropriate for a police officer.

A calm conversation or assessment of the situation requires training to do that correctly. Hence my point in all this that no cop good or bad is the real issue here.

Headhunter wrote: How about an emphasis on conversation? Calm conversation too. Not panicked full volume shouting with your gun drawn waiting for the first conclusion to jump to. This traffic stop could have been a calm conversation with everyone covering their bases. At worst, Castile gets cited for his busted tail light and the marijuana. In no way was the cop's gung-ho reaction after learning about the gun appropriate for a police officer.

i'm not going to defend the specific cop that you started this thread about. what he did is indefensible. and i called out a cop too, in my own thread. i have no problem with calling out cops who fuck up or are assholes.

that's not what i was intending with the quote. i think that blaming all cops is not the way to go. that's all.

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote: How about an emphasis on conversation? Calm conversation too. Not panicked full volume shouting with your gun drawn waiting for the first conclusion to jump to. This traffic stop could have been a calm conversation with everyone covering their bases. At worst, Castile gets cited for his busted tail light and the marijuana. In no way was the cop's gung-ho reaction after learning about the gun appropriate for a police officer.

i'm not going to defend the specific cop that you started this thread about. what he did is indefensible. and i called out a cop too, in my own thread. i have no problem with calling out cops who fuck up or are assholes.

that's not what i was intending with the quote. i think that blaming all cops is not the way to go. that's all.

I'm not arguing with you even a little bit. I'm just adding my thoughts.

i can say from experience that not all cops are bad or militant / offense-based. at least as far as gainesville, florida and pueblo, colorado goes.

I can only reaffirm that none of my argument is about good or bad cops or the relative instances of either.

And all this is just a placeholder until Jason tells me all Mexicans deserve a bullet from the boys in Blue, and Foonsays he wishes they'd shoot first at a higher rate to get rid if the scum.

No criminal record for Fox News to casually smear the victim with in this case either.

showa58taro wrote:A calm conversation or assessment of the situation requires training to do that correctly. Hence my point in all this that no cop good or bad is the real issue here.

i think that, even with whatever training focus, most cops handle themselves, and the situations that they're put into, at least decently well. there is always an argument that different training could yield better results. and probably would cut back on the incidents of fucked up cops. i can see that. we seem to be mostly on the same page, mostly.

Headhunter wrote:No criminal record for Fox News to casually smear the victim with in this case either.

I need to watch the video. I haven't, although I have been commenting in this thread. I have been cooking dinner, learning and trying to write songs, and dealing with hyper dogs all day, lol.

We really do need to overhaul our justice system! Some ideas I have:

- instead of juries who must listen to all the facts presented in a court of law, we can have Anti-authority beatniks who read a few articles by news sources who support Black Lives Matter decide the cases! Would really streamline things if we just assume cops are guilty.

- instead of police officers, we can have "suggestion officials". They have no actual authority. They cannot arrest anyone. Their job is to simply suggest law compliance. In addition, they will wear 100% cotton suits (breathable and environmentally friendly!), that have brightly colored targets over their vital organs to help thugs get a good kill shot if desired. Instead of, "Freeze! Don't move!" while readying their gun, the suggestion officials could say, "I will give you a lollipop if you don't shoot me!".

you don't even care to have an actual conversation based on anything at all that any of us posted. or that even resembles our opinions on the subject. that's a nice approach to a topic.

90% sure all he did was read the title.

If I only read the headline, I could simply focus on the fact that there was no murder.

Please tell me, how many times was Philando Castle pulled over by police? Oh yeah, 52 times...

I would not mention that he was a robbery suspect...

I would not mention this piece of work and his girlfriend would make videos of themselves driving around smoking weed, with a child in the back seat.

Please pick better people to make into innocent saints shot by police.

Foo wrote:If I only read the headline, I could simply focus on the fact that there was no murder.

Please tell me, how many times was Philando Castle pulled over by police? Oh yeah, 52 times...

I would not mention that he was a robbery suspect...

I would not mention this piece of work and his girlfriend would make videos of themselves driving around smoking weed, with a child in the back seat.

Please pick better people to make into innocent saints shot by police.

you would not mention... okay, but you would mention that anything short of sainthood is worthy of a bullet?