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IRS fines for everybody! It will be glorious.

Trump assaulting congress by using their refusal to update the healthcare system as leverage against the free healthcare they receive through taxpayers is pretty ingenious. Accusing them of lack of motivation to fix the healthcare system because they are receiving different options of healthcare than the average American citizen.
"If ObamaCare is hurting people, and it is, why shouldn't it hurt the insurance companies and why should Congress not be paying what the public pays? If a new HealthCare Bill is not approved quickly, BAILOUTS for Insurance Companies and BAILOUTS for Members of Congress will end very soon!"

This is the excellence of Trump we are talking about that nobody notices. This is a direct threat to the high and mighty politicians. And he has the power to cut off their healthcare. Golly gee, I wonder what congress will do now?

Come join civilization. It's pleasant, honestly.

Also, if you get healthcare, maybe you could try maternity leave. One day it might be as good to be a mother in the US as it currently is in Swaziland.

showa58taro wrote:Come join civilization. It's pleasant, honestly.

Also, if you get healthcare, maybe you could try maternity leave. One day it might be as good to be a mother in the US as it currently is in Swaziland.

I can work or not work any day I like. I don't need the government to give me permission. I am not begging the government to save me.

Are we men who control our destiny or are we sheep awaiting the slaughter? Your version of civilization is being a sheep in a bigger cage, but it is still a cage to those used to freedom. If you are used to being reliant upon society to pay for you, society paying for more is pretty appealing. Like the sheep getting an extra scoop of food from the farmer.

Do we not rely on doctors? Everyone will have to see one, eventually. How do we go about having healthcare that fits everyone?

Foo wrote:

showa58taro wrote:Come join civilization. It's pleasant, honestly.

Also, if you get healthcare, maybe you could try maternity leave. One day it might be as good to be a mother in the US as it currently is in Swaziland.

I can work or not work any day I like. I don't need the government to give me permission. I am not begging the government to save me.

Are we men who control our destiny or are we sheep awaiting the slaughter? Your version of civilization is being a sheep in a bigger cage, but it is still a cage to those used to freedom. If you are used to being reliant upon society to pay for you, society paying for more is pretty appealing. Like the sheep getting an extra scoop of food from the farmer.

what freedoms do you have, that seb does not have?

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

showa58taro wrote:Come join civilization. It's pleasant, honestly.

Also, if you get healthcare, maybe you could try maternity leave. One day it might be as good to be a mother in the US as it currently is in Swaziland.

I can work or not work any day I like. I don't need the government to give me permission. I am not begging the government to save me.

Are we men who control our destiny or are we sheep awaiting the slaughter? Your version of civilization is being a sheep in a bigger cage, but it is still a cage to those used to freedom. If you are used to being reliant upon society to pay for you, society paying for more is pretty appealing. Like the sheep getting an extra scoop of food from the farmer.

what freedoms do you have, that seb does not have?

I don't have to ask the government for healthcare. If I need a surgery or medicine, the government does not decide if I get it.

Jmac Attack wrote:Do we not rely on doctors? Everyone will have to see one, eventually. How do we go about having healthcare that fits everyone?

How is that different from any trade? We rely on engineers, builders, electricians, plumbers, etc.

Everyone is unique, why in the world would you want a one size fits all solution? Do you want to wear the same shirt a 6'8'' 500 pound man wears? The same pants a midget woman wears? Why would you want the identical healthcare?

Individuals should choose their destiny.

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

showa58taro wrote:Come join civilization. It's pleasant, honestly.

Also, if you get healthcare, maybe you could try maternity leave. One day it might be as good to be a mother in the US as it currently is in Swaziland.

I can work or not work any day I like. I don't need the government to give me permission. I am not begging the government to save me.

Are we men who control our destiny or are we sheep awaiting the slaughter? Your version of civilization is being a sheep in a bigger cage, but it is still a cage to those used to freedom. If you are used to being reliant upon society to pay for you, society paying for more is pretty appealing. Like the sheep getting an extra scoop of food from the farmer.

what freedoms do you have, that seb does not have?

I don't have to ask the government for healthcare. If I need a surgery or medicine, the government does not decide if I get it.

if sweden has no work around for people in need of healthcare, that is definitely a problem. that's not society paying for you, it is society deciding whether they wanna pay for you or not.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... untry.html

They set "too long" of a wait at 6 weeks for these scans and they still cannot hit the mark. I can get them done tomorrow.

People dying, having strokes, losing limbs, etc while they wait on lists for that "free" healthcare. Sounds like a great quality of life. Begging for government to save you while thousands are doing the same ahead of you in the line.

You know why universal healthcare is popular in those places? Because they are polling healthy people, not the ones dying on a waiting list or outright denied treatment.

Yeah, we will pay for your cancer treatment, assuming you live with it long enough for us to get around to you...

it's good that we don't have any problems, in the united states, regarding people receiving healthcare.

"The U.S. wasn’t last on everything. The Commonwealth team found U.S. adults have timely access to specialists, with just 6 percent waiting longer than two months for an appointment. “In Germany, France, the Netherlands, and Switzerland, rates were similar, ranging from 3 percent to 9 percent,” the group said. "

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-ca ... es-n684851

zombie wrote:it's good that we don't have any problems, in the united states, regarding people receiving healthcare.

Freedom means people have choices. Choices are not without problems.

If someone chooses to not work and not have insurance, and thus cannot afford care, is that really an issue society needs to tackle?

zombie wrote:"The U.S. wasn’t last on everything. The Commonwealth team found U.S. adults have timely access to specialists, with just 6 percent waiting longer than two months for an appointment. “In Germany, France, the Netherlands, and Switzerland, rates were similar, ranging from 3 percent to 9 percent,” the group said. "

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-ca ... es-n684851

Would you believe I could create a ranking system that shows the US to be the best in the world? Why poke around trying to find negative opinions that reinforce what you already believe?

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:"The U.S. wasn’t last on everything. The Commonwealth team found U.S. adults have timely access to specialists, with just 6 percent waiting longer than two months for an appointment. “In Germany, France, the Netherlands, and Switzerland, rates were similar, ranging from 3 percent to 9 percent,” the group said. "

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-ca ... es-n684851

Would you believe I could create a ranking system that shows the US to be the best in the world? Why poke around trying to find negative opinions that reinforce what you already believe?

i didn't poke around. if you can give an article that shows different, then nice. show me? also, wasn't talking about where we rank on the list. i was specifically bringing it up about the wait time thing, which you mentioned in regard to other countries that have government run systems.

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:it's good that we don't have any problems, in the united states, regarding people receiving healthcare.

Freedom means people have choices. Choices are not without problems.

If someone chooses to not work and not have insurance, and thus cannot afford care, is that really an issue society needs to tackle?

yeah, people should have choice. people have the choice to not hire someone on to work. does that mean that someone is choosing not to work?

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:it's good that we don't have any problems, in the united states, regarding people receiving healthcare.

Freedom means people have choices. Choices are not without problems.

If someone chooses to not work and not have insurance, and thus cannot afford care, is that really an issue society needs to tackle?

yeah, people should have choice. people have the choice to not hire someone on to work. does that mean that someone is choosing not to work?

Yes. I have never heard of a single situation where an unemployed person was doing whatever it takes to find work.

Don't get me wrong, I hear plenty of half-assed tales where someone is "doing their best", which is obviously not enough.

Three types of people:

1. Those who try
2. Those who do their best
3. Those who do whatever it takes

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:it's good that we don't have any problems, in the united states, regarding people receiving healthcare.

Freedom means people have choices. Choices are not without problems.

If someone chooses to not work and not have insurance, and thus cannot afford care, is that really an issue society needs to tackle?

yeah, people should have choice. people have the choice to not hire someone on to work. does that mean that someone is choosing not to work?

Yes. I have never heard of a single situation where an unemployed person was doing whatever it takes to find work.

Don't get me wrong, I hear plenty of half-assed tales where someone is "doing their best", which is obviously not enough.

Three types of people:

1. Those who try
2. Those who do their best
3. Those who do whatever it takes

fair enough. those people are making the choice to starve and die. that's a choice that someone would make for themselves.

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:it's good that we don't have any problems, in the united states, regarding people receiving healthcare.

Freedom means people have choices. Choices are not without problems.

If someone chooses to not work and not have insurance, and thus cannot afford care, is that really an issue society needs to tackle?

yeah, people should have choice. people have the choice to not hire someone on to work. does that mean that someone is choosing not to work?

Yes. I have never heard of a single situation where an unemployed person was doing whatever it takes to find work.

Don't get me wrong, I hear plenty of half-assed tales where someone is "doing their best", which is obviously not enough.

Three types of people:

1. Those who try
2. Those who do their best
3. Those who do whatever it takes

fair enough. those people are making the choice to starve and die. that's a choice that someone would make for themselves.

Amazing how easily people will let go when there is a safety net under them and how hard they hold on when there isn't.