It (2017)

[Foo]

Consider this. If The Dark Tower is made a year sooner and bombs, maybe It does not get the same budget or marketing, and maybe not made at all.

Yet applying the same negative stigma within the same year, it breaks records. I get what you're trying to get at, but they've been trying to make IT for years so I don't think the Dark Tower necessarily plays into the equation so much.

It does have a built in base, but consider how Spider-Man influenced Daredevil. They added budget and changed the tone and marketing during filming because Spider-Man made so much money just prior.

[Reign in Blood]

And yeah, you are still looking at superficial stuff and obvious themes.

i don't think it's superficial, but that shows the influence of a movie pretty directly. it is not the only influence, but without that, it's all about business. this actor or director signed this deal because of this movie kind of thing. that doesn't really make an influence culturally, in my opinion. it's behind the scenes influence. it's not mainstream influence.

Where do you think behind the scenes influence eventually appears?

Let's look at The Green Mile. That movie was solely made for two reasons:

1. Tom Hanks agreed to star in it
2. The Shawshank Redemption became a massive hit on cable TV

The Green Mile becoming a hit meant those involved got more latitude. The Mist gets made. The Walking Dead gets made.

but that kind of influence can be seen at any level of success. ginger snaps influences casting of fvsj, leads to ginger snaps sequel. influences orphan black. influences american mary. that does not make ginger snaps an influential film, does it? it is, from a technical standpoint, but no one is going to ever give it that label, the way that you give to certain films that will go un-named.

Unless it's explicitly known or stated by the film makers, you can't use casting choices as influence, sometimes the actor just nails the audition etc. I'll buy Isabelle was cast in FvsJ on the strength of Ginger Snaps, but Maslany in Orphan Black because of Ghost? No fucking way.

[Foo]

Consider this. If The Dark Tower is made a year sooner and bombs, maybe It does not get the same budget or marketing, and maybe not made at all.

that's possible. also "bumb" tends to be about perception, just as much as it is about financial success. amazing spiderman 2 is often cited as a bomb, when it was very successful, as an example. the dark tower is decently successful, while even still in theaters, and you just called it a bomb.

Please reread.

you don't consider dark tower to be a bomb? fair enough.

"If" is the key word. Not trying to argue about the Dark Tower because I give no shits about it nor have I looked into it in any great degree.

[zombie]

As just a film? Possibly, but they are both multi-media properties. Both have sold a lot of merchandise beyond the movies. Pinnochio has proved to be a more sustainable merchandise seller.

good point, on that. i didn't think about the merchandise in regard to those movies. but that isn't going to change their place, as of now, within the top 50 of all time. it could have during the theatrical run, for sure.

[Foo]

And yeah, you are still looking at superficial stuff and obvious themes.

i don't think it's superficial, but that shows the influence of a movie pretty directly. it is not the only influence, but without that, it's all about business. this actor or director signed this deal because of this movie kind of thing. that doesn't really make an influence culturally, in my opinion. it's behind the scenes influence. it's not mainstream influence.

Where do you think behind the scenes influence eventually appears?

Let's look at The Green Mile. That movie was solely made for two reasons:

1. Tom Hanks agreed to star in it
2. The Shawshank Redemption became a massive hit on cable TV

The Green Mile becoming a hit meant those involved got more latitude. The Mist gets made. The Walking Dead gets made.

but that kind of influence can be seen at any level of success. ginger snaps influences casting of fvsj, leads to ginger snaps sequel. influences orphan black. influences american mary. that does not make ginger snaps an influential film, does it? it is, from a technical standpoint, but no one is going to ever give it that label, the way that you give to certain films that will go un-named.

Unless it's explicitly known or stated by the film makers, you can't use casting choices as influence, sometimes the actor just nails the audition etc. I'll buy Isabelle was cast in FvsJ on the strength of Ginger Snaps, but Maslany in Orphan Black because of Ghost? No fucking way.

I thought he was saying Orphan Black was a girly werewolf show or something. Never saw it.

[zombie]

And yeah, you are still looking at superficial stuff and obvious themes.

i don't think it's superficial, but that shows the influence of a movie pretty directly. it is not the only influence, but without that, it's all about business. this actor or director signed this deal because of this movie kind of thing. that doesn't really make an influence culturally, in my opinion. it's behind the scenes influence. it's not mainstream influence.

Where do you think behind the scenes influence eventually appears?

Let's look at The Green Mile. That movie was solely made for two reasons:

1. Tom Hanks agreed to star in it
2. The Shawshank Redemption became a massive hit on cable TV

The Green Mile becoming a hit meant those involved got more latitude. The Mist gets made. The Walking Dead gets made.

but that kind of influence can be seen at any level of success. ginger snaps influences casting of fvsj, leads to ginger snaps sequel. influences orphan black. influences american mary. that does not make ginger snaps an influential film, does it? it is, from a technical standpoint, but no one is going to ever give it that label, the way that you give to certain films that will go un-named.

Unless it's explicitly known or stated by the film makers, you can't use casting choices as influence, sometimes the actor just nails the audition etc. I'll buy Isabelle was cast in FvsJ on the strength of Ginger Snaps, but Maslany in Orphan Black because of Ghost? No fucking way.

keep in mind that a co-creator and writer for orphan black also directed ginger snaps.

[Foo]

As just a film? Possibly, but they are both multi-media properties. Both have sold a lot of merchandise beyond the movies. Pinnochio has proved to be a more sustainable merchandise seller.

good point, on that. i didn't think about the merchandise in regard to those movies. but that isn't going to change their place, as of now, within the top 50 of all time. it could have during the theatrical run, for sure.

I would assume Pinnochio's adjusted is probably inaccurate anyway. I would guess it has had multiple re-releases and that is not accounted for when making the adjustment.

[zombie]

And yeah, you are still looking at superficial stuff and obvious themes.

i don't think it's superficial, but that shows the influence of a movie pretty directly. it is not the only influence, but without that, it's all about business. this actor or director signed this deal because of this movie kind of thing. that doesn't really make an influence culturally, in my opinion. it's behind the scenes influence. it's not mainstream influence.

Where do you think behind the scenes influence eventually appears?

Let's look at The Green Mile. That movie was solely made for two reasons:

1. Tom Hanks agreed to star in it
2. The Shawshank Redemption became a massive hit on cable TV

The Green Mile becoming a hit meant those involved got more latitude. The Mist gets made. The Walking Dead gets made.

but that kind of influence can be seen at any level of success. ginger snaps influences casting of fvsj, leads to ginger snaps sequel. influences orphan black. influences american mary. that does not make ginger snaps an influential film, does it? it is, from a technical standpoint, but no one is going to ever give it that label, the way that you give to certain films that will go un-named.

Unless it's explicitly known or stated by the film makers, you can't use casting choices as influence, sometimes the actor just nails the audition etc. I'll buy Isabelle was cast in FvsJ on the strength of Ginger Snaps, but Maslany in Orphan Black because of Ghost? No fucking way.

I thought he was saying Orphan Black was a girly werewolf show or something. Never saw it.

nah, otherwise i would have mentioned cursed.

[Slaughterhouserock]

Yet applying the same negative stigma within the same year, it breaks records. I get what you're trying to get at, but they've been trying to make IT for years so I don't think the Dark Tower necessarily plays into the equation so much.

They've been trying to make The Dark Tower for about ten years...

[Reign in Blood]

Consider this. If The Dark Tower is made a year sooner and bombs, maybe It does not get the same budget or marketing, and maybe not made at all.

Yet applying the same negative stigma within the same year, it breaks records. I get what you're trying to get at, but they've been trying to make IT for years so I don't think the Dark Tower necessarily plays into the equation so much.

It does have a built in base, but consider how Spider-Man influenced Daredevil. They added budget and changed the tone and marketing during filming because Spider-Man made so much money just prior.

I get that. I just don't think it plays into this particular scenario. King movies have always been hit or miss, and they weren't using King "guys" for either, and in different genres and radically different in content.

[Reign in Blood]

Yet applying the same negative stigma within the same year, it breaks records. I get what you're trying to get at, but they've been trying to make IT for years so I don't think the Dark Tower necessarily plays into the equation so much.

They've been trying to make The Dark Tower for about ten years...

They have. And outside of being King properties, they don't have much to do with each other. One failed, one succeeded.

[Reign in Blood]

And yeah, you are still looking at superficial stuff and obvious themes.

i don't think it's superficial, but that shows the influence of a movie pretty directly. it is not the only influence, but without that, it's all about business. this actor or director signed this deal because of this movie kind of thing. that doesn't really make an influence culturally, in my opinion. it's behind the scenes influence. it's not mainstream influence.

Where do you think behind the scenes influence eventually appears?

Let's look at The Green Mile. That movie was solely made for two reasons:

1. Tom Hanks agreed to star in it
2. The Shawshank Redemption became a massive hit on cable TV

The Green Mile becoming a hit meant those involved got more latitude. The Mist gets made. The Walking Dead gets made.

but that kind of influence can be seen at any level of success. ginger snaps influences casting of fvsj, leads to ginger snaps sequel. influences orphan black. influences american mary. that does not make ginger snaps an influential film, does it? it is, from a technical standpoint, but no one is going to ever give it that label, the way that you give to certain films that will go un-named.

Unless it's explicitly known or stated by the film makers, you can't use casting choices as influence, sometimes the actor just nails the audition etc. I'll buy Isabelle was cast in FvsJ on the strength of Ginger Snaps, but Maslany in Orphan Black because of Ghost? No fucking way.

keep in mind that a co-creator and writer for orphan black also directed ginger snaps.

Well fuck me running. I guess he found that little annoying shit endearing and he could carve emmy winning shit out of her years later.

[DancesWithWerewolves]

Saw it tonight. Was pretty good. My main gripe is just the opening scene, introducing Pennywise. In the original, Pennywise (while obviously creepy) genuinely came off as a clown trying to win over the trust of an unsuspecting child. Maybe it's just Curry being a million times better, but the original captured the essence of Pennywise perfectly. Go back and rewatch the original Georgie scene. Listen to Curry and the way he's behaving when he's trying to win over his trust, then observe the way he reacts when Georgie finally gives him his trust and asks "do they float". You can totally feel the excitement in Pennywise's voice of the hell he is about to unleash on this fucking kid. The makers of this movie definitely did not grasp that scene at all. That scene is so much more than a creepy clown pulling a kid into the sewers. I thought the movie was in trouble at this point. But it actually did really well the rest of the way. My remaining complaints are mostly just nitpicky shit that comes with every modern horror flick. Overuse of CGI, the super loud drum pounding at every intense moment. Shit like that. Still did a good job feeling creepy and capturing the camaraderie of youngsters at that age.

Overall, most definitely prefer the original part 1, but the remake didn't shatter my hopes like I feared it could. About a 7/10 feels right.

I was saying that just from the trailer, the luring Georgie in vs. being creepy from the jump.

Could a big part of that be because this is a time compressed remake with a marketing campaign centered on the clown? Audiences at that time were discovering the clown, audiences this time already know the motives are sinister.

Yeah, could be because the marketing was more on him, they said fuck it we will make him as creepy and scary as possible. For me it's more about Pennywise being smart. Georgie is young and naive enough not to think just talking to a clown in a sewer drain alone is batshit, but OG Penny lured him in with charm and charisma, no kid is talking to the remake Penny.

OG Penny would be the book version, which is more sinister and creepy (and thus was the movie) than how playful Curry and watered down TV took it. I still took it that Georgie is still young enough to be naive to trust Pennywise after he was putting an effort (like Jiggy mentioned, the Pop-pop-popcorn dialogue and such, he was being very joyful there), because that's what happens.

[DancesWithWerewolves]

Saw It twice now, and I feel comfortable saying this is my favorite horror movie I've seen since [rec]2, but not as good as [rec]2. Of course this is to me. Any criticisms I have are nitpicking at best.

Alli was squeamish as all hell, especially during the opening Georgie scene. So that was fun.

[DancesWithWerewolves]

To be fair, Tom Hanks wanted to be in Shawshank (he was approached for Andy), but couldn't because he was shooting Forrest Gump at the same time, so talking him into Green Mile wasn't a huge feat.

[DancesWithWerewolves]

I snickered that in one day, It made more money than The Dark Tower has in it's entire run so far ($51 vs. $47). Lulz.

[DancesWithWerewolves]

Oh, for additional fun of being called a son of a bitch, I started using this Pennywise voice on Alli. Mwahahahahaha.

[Jason]

Saw it tonight. Was pretty good. My main gripe is just the opening scene, introducing Pennywise. In the original, Pennywise (while obviously creepy) genuinely came off as a clown trying to win over the trust of an unsuspecting child. Maybe it's just Curry being a million times better, but the original captured the essence of Pennywise perfectly. Go back and rewatch the original Georgie scene. Listen to Curry and the way he's behaving when he's trying to win over his trust, then observe the way he reacts when Georgie finally gives him his trust and asks "do they float". You can totally feel the excitement in Pennywise's voice of the hell he is about to unleash on this fucking kid. The makers of this movie definitely did not grasp that scene at all. That scene is so much more than a creepy clown pulling a kid into the sewers. I thought the movie was in trouble at this point. But it actually did really well the rest of the way. My remaining complaints are mostly just nitpicky shit that comes with every modern horror flick. Overuse of CGI, the super loud drum pounding at every intense moment. Shit like that. Still did a good job feeling creepy and capturing the camaraderie of youngsters at that age.

Overall, most definitely prefer the original part 1, but the remake didn't shatter my hopes like I feared it could. About a 7/10 feels right.

I was saying that just from the trailer, the luring Georgie in vs. being creepy from the jump.

Most definitely didn't hold up to the original. That was my main gripe

[zombie]

And yeah, you are still looking at superficial stuff and obvious themes.

i don't think it's superficial, but that shows the influence of a movie pretty directly. it is not the only influence, but without that, it's all about business. this actor or director signed this deal because of this movie kind of thing. that doesn't really make an influence culturally, in my opinion. it's behind the scenes influence. it's not mainstream influence.

Where do you think behind the scenes influence eventually appears?

Let's look at The Green Mile. That movie was solely made for two reasons:

1. Tom Hanks agreed to star in it
2. The Shawshank Redemption became a massive hit on cable TV

The Green Mile becoming a hit meant those involved got more latitude. The Mist gets made. The Walking Dead gets made.

but that kind of influence can be seen at any level of success. ginger snaps influences casting of fvsj, leads to ginger snaps sequel. influences orphan black. influences american mary. that does not make ginger snaps an influential film, does it? it is, from a technical standpoint, but no one is going to ever give it that label, the way that you give to certain films that will go un-named.

Unless it's explicitly known or stated by the film makers, you can't use casting choices as influence, sometimes the actor just nails the audition etc. I'll buy Isabelle was cast in FvsJ on the strength of Ginger Snaps, but Maslany in Orphan Black because of Ghost? No fucking way.

keep in mind that a co-creator and writer for orphan black also directed ginger snaps.

Well fuck me running. I guess he found that little annoying shit endearing and he could carve emmy winning shit out of her years later.

everyone will fall in love with ghost. just wait.

[Reign in Blood]

Saw it tonight. Was pretty good. My main gripe is just the opening scene, introducing Pennywise. In the original, Pennywise (while obviously creepy) genuinely came off as a clown trying to win over the trust of an unsuspecting child. Maybe it's just Curry being a million times better, but the original captured the essence of Pennywise perfectly. Go back and rewatch the original Georgie scene. Listen to Curry and the way he's behaving when he's trying to win over his trust, then observe the way he reacts when Georgie finally gives him his trust and asks "do they float". You can totally feel the excitement in Pennywise's voice of the hell he is about to unleash on this fucking kid. The makers of this movie definitely did not grasp that scene at all. That scene is so much more than a creepy clown pulling a kid into the sewers. I thought the movie was in trouble at this point. But it actually did really well the rest of the way. My remaining complaints are mostly just nitpicky shit that comes with every modern horror flick. Overuse of CGI, the super loud drum pounding at every intense moment. Shit like that. Still did a good job feeling creepy and capturing the camaraderie of youngsters at that age.

Overall, most definitely prefer the original part 1, but the remake didn't shatter my hopes like I feared it could. About a 7/10 feels right.

I was saying that just from the trailer, the luring Georgie in vs. being creepy from the jump.

Could a big part of that be because this is a time compressed remake with a marketing campaign centered on the clown? Audiences at that time were discovering the clown, audiences this time already know the motives are sinister.

Yeah, could be because the marketing was more on him, they said fuck it we will make him as creepy and scary as possible. For me it's more about Pennywise being smart. Georgie is young and naive enough not to think just talking to a clown in a sewer drain alone is batshit, but OG Penny lured him in with charm and charisma, no kid is talking to the remake Penny.

OG Penny would be the book version, which is more sinister and creepy (and thus was the movie) than how playful Curry and watered down TV took it. I still took it that Georgie is still young enough to be naive to trust Pennywise after he was putting an effort (like Jiggy mentioned, the Pop-pop-popcorn dialogue and such, he was being very joyful there), because that's what happens.

Fair enough, I haven't seen the remake version in full so I should refrain.