Random Political Comments

[Jason]

It’s not punishment. It’s logically structuring society so the most vulnerable people aren’t disproportionately affected.

Contributing to the greater good being considered punishment is an unfortunate viewpoint. Not very patriotic in all honesty.

Gross misrepresentation. Very fake news.

I feel like we've all been running for president against each other in this board for 16 years.

[Headhunter]

It's "very fake news" that tax revenue is necessary for the government to work effectively and do things we all need? What the hell are you talking about?

"Taxation is theft" is such a weirdly myopic philosophy.

[Jason]

Taxation isn't theft. I never said that. It is better to treat things as goods than it is to treat things as rights. Delcaring something as a right means that you can go into my wallet and take it from me. Declaring it as goods means you get a narket process that leads to better prices and better care over time.

Affordability, Universality, Quality.
You can only ever have two of those three in healthcare. That was a major issue with Obamacare. It was already treated as a right and heavily regulated on the state level.

[Jason]

In the 1950s, aka white picket fence, cherry pie, baseball America, the highest tax bracket paid 91% back to the government.

If that's the case, why not tax everyone 100% and we can have massive growth from here to eternity?

[Headhunter]

In the 1950s, aka white picket fence, cherry pie, baseball America, the highest tax bracket paid 91% back to the government.

If that's the case, why not tax everyone 100% and we can have massive growth from here to eternity?

Are you asking me to explain the difference between 91% of a lot and 100% of anything?

[Headhunter]

Taxation isn't theft. I never said that. It is better to treat things as goods than it is to treat things as rights. Delcaring something as a right means that you can go into my wallet and take it from me. Declaring it as goods means you get a narket process that leads to better prices and better care over time.

Affordability, Universality, Quality.
You can only ever have two of those three in healthcare. That was a major issue with Obamacare. It was already treated as a right and heavily regulated on the state level.

I mean I've lived in a country with health care that checked all three boxes so not sure how you can say that.

We're not taking anything meaningful away from the ultra-wealthy when we tax them at significantly higher rates than we do people worried about personal finance month to month. We have a culture that celebrates obscene wealth accumulation like it's a game where the end reward is getting to opt out of your civic responsibilities. They're not being punished. They make millions of dollars every day. The labor involved in that is not 1000000x times more valuable than someone working 40+ hours per week hauling heavy shit, or teaching, or making food. So, they've "won" life to an absolutely unthinkable degree already. Good for them. The "drawback" of getting into a business that creates massive amounts of wealth out of thin air should be having to pay a significantly higher share back to the government. These fuckers laugh to the bank while we make their lives easier. They don't need their lives to be easier. And they largely don't do shit for any of us.

[Headhunter]

Actual theft is Republicans licking their chops at every opportunity to gut social security. That is actually your money they want to steal, for the benefit of enriching their asshole friends who make laws for them.

[showa58taro]

In the 1950s, aka white picket fence, cherry pie, baseball America, the highest tax bracket paid 91% back to the government.

If that's the case, why not tax everyone 100% and we can have massive growth from here to eternity?

Didn’t take Jason for a Communist, not gonna lie.

[Tiggnutz]

Jason makes points that I wonder about too. How come nobody brings up the reason tuition skyrocketed to unpayable amounts. Kids spend years having the " Rich white guys are the reason for all the trouble in the world" rhetoric force fed to them in college than oh yeah remember you owe us 200,000. I would have to believe the reason for the price explosion was government involvement because that's always what happens when the government gets involved.

[showa58taro]

Jason makes points that I wonder about too. How come nobody brings up the reason tuition skyrocketed to unpayable amounts. Kids spend years having the " Rich white guys are the reason for all the trouble in the world" rhetoric force fed to them in college than oh yeah remember you owe us 200,000. I would have to believe the reason for the price explosion was government involvement because that's always what happens when the government gets involved.

I’m not sure I follow? Are you saying universities and colleges upped their prices because the government owns them all?

[Tiggnutz]

Jason makes points that I wonder about too. How come nobody brings up the reason tuition skyrocketed to unpayable amounts. Kids spend years having the " Rich white guys are the reason for all the trouble in the world" rhetoric force fed to them in college than oh yeah remember you owe us 200,000. I would have to believe the reason for the price explosion was government involvement because that's always what happens when the government gets involved.

I’m not sure I follow? Are you saying universities and colleges upped their prices because the government owns them all?

I believe it had something to do with the student loan process. A great deal of federal student loans are not capped they will cover the full price of tuition so it incentivizes colleges to hike up tuition because whatever amount they asked for would be the amount of the loan. The college gets their money no matter if the debt is paid back or not.

[DancesWithWerewolves]

Jason makes points that I wonder about too. How come nobody brings up the reason tuition skyrocketed to unpayable amounts. Kids spend years having the " Rich white guys are the reason for all the trouble in the world" rhetoric force fed to them in college than oh yeah remember you owe us 200,000. I would have to believe the reason for the price explosion was government involvement because that's always what happens when the government gets involved.

I’m not sure I follow? Are you saying universities and colleges upped their prices because the government owns them all?

I believe it had something to do with the student loan process. A great deal of federal student loans are not capped they will cover the full price of tuition so it incentivizes colleges to hike up tuition because whatever amount they asked for would be the amount of the loan. The college gets their money no matter if the debt is paid back or not.

The government made it okay for them to do that, too, with ridiculous amounts of interest that they never educate you about when you sign up. Lots of shitty people like to say "you should've got an education in a job that pays" but don't realize that those jobs were supposed to pay good too (let alone, the other jobs that supposedly pay well also wouldn't have much of the shit they have if artists weren't designing things for them). We were promised that, and then after graduation, only a slim few can make it while others struggle with the burden of how awful student loans really are.

I've had people ask me about student loans, because their kids would get ready for college, and I'm honest about it: I tell them to avoid it at all cost because it will cripple them for most of the rest fo their life, do not believe what student advisors or counselors say, they are fucking sharks.

While I appreciate what Bernie wanted to do about student loan forgiveness, I was annoyed he never said what his plan was. I liked Warren's plan (taking a cut from the glut of stock market traders, who really don't earn the amount they get anyway, oh no they don't get to buy their 5th yatch and can wait till next week to snort coke from a hooker's ass) I mean, why bail out all these rich asshole banks, but not help those that are genuinely struggling to get by due to a bum choice? Wouldn't the economy get a boost if they had this burden lifted? Cars and homes could actually be purchased (two things I'm still no where in the range of being able to buy myself). Shit, even allowing student loans to be covered with bankruptcy would help, but the government helped block that too. They really want to keep people below peasants, and it's not right. You can't pursue your happiness when this awful debt is smothering you.

What's also funny is most conservatives want to bible thump, yet Jesus heavily spoke that charging interest is not right.

[DancesWithWerewolves]

So yeah, fuck those that have significantly more money, they got it at the expense of others anyway. Trickle down effect my ass, just another broken promise. That means that if you work hard enough, and your job makes the money, that the boss/owner would be willing to toss extra money your way. Shame none of them do it and just keep it all for themselves while everything inflate to high hell except wages.

[Tiggnutz]

I would be for making all tuition loans both current and future for most people (excluding wealthy people)interest free they should of always been interest free but I cant get behind completely wiping out student debt.

[Headhunter]

D hit the nail on the head on several points. Trickle down is a fucking lie, but aptly named because it's just the wealthiest Americans laughing while pissing on everyone else. That money does not re-enter the economy in a meaningful way that helps others. It is in-fucking-conceivable that people continue to be successfully sold this lie 40 years later.

I also like the deconstruction of the whole "they earned that money" spiel in regards to these high finance types. They really didn't, I promise you. It's amazing that you can create such massive amounts of wealth with so little labor input and they deserve props for that, I suppose. They also deserve to get absolutely hammered by taxes because that's really the fairest realistic trade for taking full advantage of late stage capitalism while millions struggle. One thing that is really incredible about American culture is how defensive average people are about the highest earners in this country and their ability to maintain (and build) that wealth. They're not on your side. But they do need millions of people to vote against their interests so the gravy train on biscuit wheels can keep rolling. They don't want to pay for your shit, they want you to think there's no way to pay for your shit.

The student loan debt should be forgiven immediately.

[Jason]

Step 1: Don't trust the government. When I graduated high school, I was surprised to read that the average college graduate only makes 3% more income than the average high school graduate. Every counselor encourages college as if it's the only option to earn decent money. Even at 17, 18, 19, I had a good idea about how much income I'd be making with majors I'd be interested in, and being aware of the debt shied me away from it. I took one semester of general ed at a community college. Four classes, and I paid nearly 1,000 dollars for textbooks alone. Fuck that nonsense.

If you take out a loan, you should be responsible for paying the loan. It's unfortunate, and I don't like saying it because I have several friends who were shafted by the promises of comfortable living through the wonderful path of college. I took out a loan to buy my Harley, knowing full well I need to pay off the debt. I'm not going to stop paying all of a sudden because I demand Harley-Loan-Forgiveness. "I'm 80 grand in the hole, my loan should be forgiven because I hate rich people" is not a solution.

I don't agree with the idea that if you take out a loan for something and it doesn't pay off for you, that it's the responsibility of society to assume the cost of the loan. The outrage should be focused on government and the high pricing of education for colleges and universities.

[Tiggnutz]

I bought a house in maybe the worst year possible right before the real estate bubble burst I had a shit loan that I could never manage. I fucked up. Obama to his credit created the H.A.R.P. refinancing thing that I got and gives me at least a chance. This could and should be done for student loans but to just say it's just totally wiped clean just isn't realistic. It's not like the universities are gonna say yeah we took advantage of the system let us help.

[showa58taro]

I would be for making all tuition loans both current and future for most people (excluding wealthy people)interest free they should of always been interest free but I cant get behind completely wiping out student debt.

Why?

[Jmac Attack]

For one, the purchasing of a luxury item, such as a Harley, is not a good comparison at all. People get loans for college because they can't afford it. There are jobs that require degrees. Jesus, think about it. The people in power tell us "we will help you get a degree" then hikes up the % rate. It's criminal. Poor folk like me dont have as many options as the rich do. Democracy? More like Plutocracy. Without us, they dont exist.

[DancesWithWerewolves]

For one, the purchasing of a luxury item, is not a good comparison at all. People get loans for college because they can't afford it. There are jobs that require degrees. Jesus, think about it. The people in power tell us "we will help you get a degree" then hikes up the % rate. It's criminal. Poor folk like me dont have as many options as the rich do. Democracy? More like Plutocracy. Without us, they dont exist.

And then only pay minimal struggling wages.