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This sounds very much like a US problem. Here there's tons of metrics and data around satisfaction, response time, and myriad other metrics which all are a very key yardstick for government employees. I can't quite see how you've got this bureaucratic hellscape you end. But sucks to be you.

Foo wrote:OF course firing people who are not performing as expected would change the culture. They have been fat and happy for too long.

so then productivity and care is not dependent on greed. there is more to it than that.

showa58taro wrote:This sounds very much like a US problem. Here there's tons of metrics and data around satisfaction, response time, and myriad other metrics which all are a very key yardstick for government employees. I can't quite see how you've got this bureaucratic hellscape you end. But sucks to be you.

Sucks to be someone reliant upon the government, which is why I prefer freedom over socialist healthcare and the like. Is pretty good to be Foo. Hard work, though. :p

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:OF course firing people who are not performing as expected would change the culture. They have been fat and happy for too long.

so then productivity and care is not dependent on greed. there is more to it than that.

Ok. I guess I am the only person who is generally underwhelmed with their dealings with government. Glad it is the excellent experience for you that they promise.

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:
I am honest that the vast majority of people go to work every day and perform jobs they would not otherwise be interested in doing every day because they want money, not because they enjoy sucking shit out of septic tanks and washing dishes so much.

correction: because they need money. if they were in a position that money wasn't a necessity, largely, they would seek out ways to earn money that they also enjoyed or felt fulfillment from.

And who would wash dishes and suck the shit out of skeptics if everyone is given everything?

"given everything" implies that they are not working, or trying to find work, at all. if that's the case, then they don't earn anything.

Foo wrote:

showa58taro wrote:This sounds very much like a US problem. Here there's tons of metrics and data around satisfaction, response time, and myriad other metrics which all are a very key yardstick for government employees. I can't quite see how you've got this bureaucratic hellscape you end. But sucks to be you.

Sucks to be someone reliant upon the government, which is why I prefer freedom over socialist healthcare and the like. Is pretty good to be Foo. Hard work, though. :p

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:OF course firing people who are not performing as expected would change the culture. They have been fat and happy for too long.

so then productivity and care is not dependent on greed. there is more to it than that.

Ok. I guess I am the only person who is generally underwhelmed with their dealings with government. Glad it is the excellent experience for you that they promise.

you want there to be change, but insist that everyone is driven by greed, so unless there is an increase in the wage earned, nothing will change even with new employees. and that is based, solely, on what you've presented in your argument. if you have a different viewpoint that isn't coming through how you've been arguing, then that's cool too. but i can only discuss and debate, based around what you're posting.

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:
I am honest that the vast majority of people go to work every day and perform jobs they would not otherwise be interested in doing every day because they want money, not because they enjoy sucking shit out of septic tanks and washing dishes so much.

correction: because they need money. if they were in a position that money wasn't a necessity, largely, they would seek out ways to earn money that they also enjoyed or felt fulfillment from.

And who would wash dishes and suck the shit out of skeptics if everyone is given everything?

LMAO. Excellent autocorrect.

Foo wrote:

showa58taro wrote:This sounds very much like a US problem. Here there's tons of metrics and data around satisfaction, response time, and myriad other metrics which all are a very key yardstick for government employees. I can't quite see how you've got this bureaucratic hellscape you end. But sucks to be you.

Sucks to be someone reliant upon the government, which is why I prefer freedom over socialist healthcare and the like. Is pretty good to be Foo. Hard work, though. :p

Ok. Not sure that I have a clue what you mean, so. . . Cool story bro

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:OF course firing people who are not performing as expected would change the culture. They have been fat and happy for too long.

so then productivity and care is not dependent on greed. there is more to it than that.

Ok. I guess I am the only person who is generally underwhelmed with their dealings with government. Glad it is the excellent experience for you that they promise.

Gotta be the only one. I got two buddies who moved their families to Europe and China, respectively. Both came back divorced, with both citing not only a cultural change, but dealing with a more infringing government etc. as big reasons.

also, while we're on the subject of not being satisfied with government employees... what is a police officer exactly?

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:
I am honest that the vast majority of people go to work every day and perform jobs they would not otherwise be interested in doing every day because they want money, not because they enjoy sucking shit out of septic tanks and washing dishes so much.

correction: because they need money. if they were in a position that money wasn't a necessity, largely, they would seek out ways to earn money that they also enjoyed or felt fulfillment from.

And who would wash dishes and suck the shit out of skeptics if everyone is given everything?

"given everything" implies that they are not working, or trying to find work, at all. if that's the case, then they don't earn anything.

First of all, there is no such thing as trying to find work. Every time I hear that said the person has been "trying" to not find it for years. If a person has not worked for it, it was given to them.

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:
I am honest that the vast majority of people go to work every day and perform jobs they would not otherwise be interested in doing every day because they want money, not because they enjoy sucking shit out of septic tanks and washing dishes so much.

correction: because they need money. if they were in a position that money wasn't a necessity, largely, they would seek out ways to earn money that they also enjoyed or felt fulfillment from.

And who would wash dishes and suck the shit out of skeptics if everyone is given everything?

"given everything" implies that they are not working, or trying to find work, at all. if that's the case, then they don't earn anything.

First of all, there is no such thing as trying to find work. Every time I hear that said the person has been "trying" to not find it for years. If a person has not worked for it, it was given to them.

yeah, we're not in disagreement.

zombie wrote:also, while we're on the subject of not being satisfied with government employees... what is a police officer exactly?

Someone to criticize and verbally abuse at every turn?

Reign in Blood wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:OF course firing people who are not performing as expected would change the culture. They have been fat and happy for too long.

so then productivity and care is not dependent on greed. there is more to it than that.

Ok. I guess I am the only person who is generally underwhelmed with their dealings with government. Glad it is the excellent experience for you that they promise.

Gotta be the only one. I got two buddies who moved their families to Europe and China, respectively. Both came back divorced, with both citing not only a cultural change, but dealing with a more infringing government etc. as big reasons.

Europe was it. How specific. Guess that proves it. Reign knows a guy who was in Europe.

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:also, while we're on the subject of not being satisfied with government employees... what is a police officer exactly?

Someone to criticize and verbally abuse at every turn?

a government employee.

showa58taro wrote:

Reign in Blood wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:OF course firing people who are not performing as expected would change the culture. They have been fat and happy for too long.

so then productivity and care is not dependent on greed. there is more to it than that.

Ok. I guess I am the only person who is generally underwhelmed with their dealings with government. Glad it is the excellent experience for you that they promise.

Gotta be the only one. I got two buddies who moved their families to Europe and China, respectively. Both came back divorced, with both citing not only a cultural change, but dealing with a more infringing government etc. as big reasons.

Europe was it. How specific. Guess that proves it. Reign knows a guy who was in Europe.

He dragged his family from England to Ireland to Spain and back again. I told him Sweden was the way, but he didn't listen.

capitalism should be based on productivity and care in the work you're doing, or service you're providing to people, and not about greed. if everyone is only driven by greed, then something needs to change on a cultural level. but i don't think that is the case.

zombie wrote:capitalism should be based on productivity and care in the work you're doing, or service you're providing to people, and not about greed. if everyone is only driven by greed, then something needs to change on a cultural level. but i don't think that is the case.

You don't think you are ever greedy?

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:capitalism should be based on productivity and care in the work you're doing, or service you're providing to people, and not about greed. if everyone is only driven by greed, then something needs to change on a cultural level. but i don't think that is the case.

You don't think you are ever greedy?

maybe sometimes greedy. (not necessarily money-wise) everyone has flaws or shortcomings. and those should be worked on.