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Jason wrote:

Headhunter wrote:That shit could happen 100x more than I think it does and guess what? The alcohol statistics would STILL blow it out of the water.

This is not even close. No logical argument to be made at all. The only thing you can do is argue the relative danger of marijuana, but putting it on the same level with or close to alcohol is blatantly false.

The reason is because alcohol is legal, and is used FAR more throughout the country than marijuana. Those stats you cling to will skyrocket when it's legal in every state, not just 6 or 7, and people are using it as frequently as alcohol.

Equally dangerous substance. No doubt about it.

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:And on weed, when we know of someone using, why aren't we always asking about why they are doing so to address the real problems? To me, using a mood altering drug recreationally raises the same red flags as a person popping OxyContin.

do you ask your friends who drink, why they do it?

i suspect it's because they like the way they feel under the influence of it. and i would feel nosy prying about it. unless it was actually noticeably harmful to them in some way.

No, but I usually disassociate with them. It is not necessarily me judging them, it is just not a lifestyle I wish to pursue.

why disassociate with them? do they try to push you into joining them or what?

It doesn't interest me. Would I go out with you to have drinks and bullshit? Absolutely. Am I gonna go out to get drunk or make alcohol integral to my social life? Absolutely not.

so then they do push you to drink with them. that's understandable to not want to, and you shouldn't feel like you have to, to hang out with them.

It is sometimes tough to describe, but it just holds no appeal to me. I find substance abusers to be very dull. I want to be around people who are achievers and doers. Drug users are tend to want to dwell on their drug use. It is boring. Yeah, you got drunk/high that one time...how novel!

i'm getting that this is not in a club/party/out to dinner situation? if they are doing that on the job, and failing to work because of it... then by all means cut them out of your life. meh.

Headhunter wrote:Alcohol is pretty fucking great for stories but if you weren't there, it isn't interesting. My friends and I think it's fucking hilarious that we once woke up once parked illegally by the beach with a girl we don't remember meeting passed out in the backseat holding a stop sign.

Anyone not there would probably find it obnoxious, but man, the booze does bring people together.

Foo wrote:
In general, I find users to be boring. Going to a bar has zero appeal to me. Drinking for social lubrication has zero appeal.

Foo wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Jason wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Jason wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Jason wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Jason wrote:

Headhunter wrote:Everyone can have their own personal experiences that differs from the consensus.

Well, booya. You finally admitted the point I was making. Not all experiences are the same. Stop pretending weed is 1000x "safer" to drive under than alcohol. They are equally dangerous overall. One more dangerous than the other, depending on the person. Stop calling Foo a liar. Disrespectful. OMG

It's almost like people can have their own unique experiences based on a number of parameters including drug tolerance and it's still also true that all things equal weed is 1000x safer to drive under. How you "feel" based on a friend's story does not mean a thing in reality. Data is much more relevant.

Again, get over that I called you out. No one cares, least of all me.

I'm not trying to push buttons, but you've said yourself on multiple occasions that you do not trust yourself with alcohol. It is just different with every body. Some people prefer one to the other. Some people can handle one over the other better. Some people are more prone to getting addicted over one than the other. You prefer marijuana, that is no secret. But there are other people like you who will make the exact same argument about alcohol over marijuana.

Their argument is false though. Alcohol is a far more dangerous substance. I can smoke all the weed in my house right now and just get a great night's sleep. What would happen if you drank all the alcohol in your house right now?

That's the closed-mindedness I'm talking about. "Their argument is false" because you want it to be or refuse to believe it. Marijuana literally caused a chemical imbalance in someone's brain that I know personally and nearly drove her insane. Maybe we don't know as much about marijuana as everyone pretends to.

If I drank all the alcohol in my house I would get a tiny buzz. I've got like 4 shots of Devil's Cut left.

Dude, following a combination of data and common sense does not make me closed-minded. There isn't a single solitary data point that reflects the theory that weed is as bad for driving as alcohol. It's cool you know 2 people in an 8 billion person works who proved all that wrong though. Wtf

Let's say you have 4 bottles of it. If you finished that and I smoke an obscene amount of weed tonight, only one of us will be miserable tomorrow. Why?

There's the dismissal. "Oh, so you know 2 people. Big deal". Yeah. This shit didn't even make the local newspaper. Nobody but like twenty people and some of HMF know about this because I shared the story. This shit certainly happens far more than you want to believe it does.

Don't do it. You may get a chemical imbalance in your brain, kill your girlfriend and dive into the sewers with the Ninja Turtles and order a shit load of pizza. Not good. This shit has a separate affect on people. Why you're refuting it, other than preferring weed over alcohol, is beyond me.

Uh, because I'm right. Alcohol kills people. More than 37.000 per year in this country. Zero cases of a marijuana overdose in history.

You're trying too hard here. Just accept that your cases are the exceptions and not the rule. You're having to do guess work to prove your case, there's hard data establishing the prevalence of alcohol related deaths, especially on the road. I'm not being dismissive, I'm just using facts. You somehow believe that a 0.1% exception proves they're equally dangerous. One of the craziest fallacies I've ever seen in an argument.

Those numbers are not true.

Alcoholism contributes to that many deaths. There are nowhere near that many overdose deaths.

Also, the illegal nature of marijuana makes such statistics difficult to compare.

Because death is a rare outcome for a marijuana overdose does not mean it is safe.

Jason wrote:

Headhunter wrote:Alcohol is pretty fucking great for stories but if you weren't there, it isn't interesting. My friends and I think it's fucking hilarious that we once woke up once parked illegally by the beach with a girl we don't remember meeting passed out in the backseat holding a stop sign.

Anyone not there would probably find it obnoxious, but man, the booze does bring people together.

I used to be incredibly shy as a youngster and alcohol would certainly bring out the more sociable side in me. I have become just as sociable in every day life without the use of alcohol. Learning through alcohol is probably what made me learn to be sociable without it, ironically, though.

Headhunter wrote:People use marijuana all over this country every day. Suddenly if it's legal, tens of thousands will start dying a year? Sorry bro this argument is just laughable. Numbers don't "skyrocket" like that.

Foo wrote:

Headhunter wrote:People use marijuana all over this country every day. Suddenly if it's legal, tens of thousands will start dying a year? Sorry bro this argument is just laughable. Numbers don't "skyrocket" like that.

Numbers stay the same but how the deaths are attributed will change.

Right now, "alcohol is a factor" is used in statistics. It runs the numbers way up. As "marijuana is a factor" becomes acceptable, the attributable death while skyrocket.

Lung and mouth cancers, brain disorders, car accidents, etc. in time they will begin to go into that column.

Headhunter wrote:

Foo wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Jason wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Jason wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Jason wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Jason wrote:

Headhunter wrote:Everyone can have their own personal experiences that differs from the consensus.

Well, booya. You finally admitted the point I was making. Not all experiences are the same. Stop pretending weed is 1000x "safer" to drive under than alcohol. They are equally dangerous overall. One more dangerous than the other, depending on the person. Stop calling Foo a liar. Disrespectful. OMG

It's almost like people can have their own unique experiences based on a number of parameters including drug tolerance and it's still also true that all things equal weed is 1000x safer to drive under. How you "feel" based on a friend's story does not mean a thing in reality. Data is much more relevant.

Again, get over that I called you out. No one cares, least of all me.

I'm not trying to push buttons, but you've said yourself on multiple occasions that you do not trust yourself with alcohol. It is just different with every body. Some people prefer one to the other. Some people can handle one over the other better. Some people are more prone to getting addicted over one than the other. You prefer marijuana, that is no secret. But there are other people like you who will make the exact same argument about alcohol over marijuana.

Their argument is false though. Alcohol is a far more dangerous substance. I can smoke all the weed in my house right now and just get a great night's sleep. What would happen if you drank all the alcohol in your house right now?

That's the closed-mindedness I'm talking about. "Their argument is false" because you want it to be or refuse to believe it. Marijuana literally caused a chemical imbalance in someone's brain that I know personally and nearly drove her insane. Maybe we don't know as much about marijuana as everyone pretends to.

If I drank all the alcohol in my house I would get a tiny buzz. I've got like 4 shots of Devil's Cut left.

Dude, following a combination of data and common sense does not make me closed-minded. There isn't a single solitary data point that reflects the theory that weed is as bad for driving as alcohol. It's cool you know 2 people in an 8 billion person works who proved all that wrong though. Wtf

Let's say you have 4 bottles of it. If you finished that and I smoke an obscene amount of weed tonight, only one of us will be miserable tomorrow. Why?

There's the dismissal. "Oh, so you know 2 people. Big deal". Yeah. This shit didn't even make the local newspaper. Nobody but like twenty people and some of HMF know about this because I shared the story. This shit certainly happens far more than you want to believe it does.

Don't do it. You may get a chemical imbalance in your brain, kill your girlfriend and dive into the sewers with the Ninja Turtles and order a shit load of pizza. Not good. This shit has a separate affect on people. Why you're refuting it, other than preferring weed over alcohol, is beyond me.

Uh, because I'm right. Alcohol kills people. More than 37.000 per year in this country. Zero cases of a marijuana overdose in history.

You're trying too hard here. Just accept that your cases are the exceptions and not the rule. You're having to do guess work to prove your case, there's hard data establishing the prevalence of alcohol related deaths, especially on the road. I'm not being dismissive, I'm just using facts. You somehow believe that a 0.1% exception proves they're equally dangerous. One of the craziest fallacies I've ever seen in an argument.

Those numbers are not true.

Alcoholism contributes to that many deaths. There are nowhere near that many overdose deaths.

Also, the illegal nature of marijuana makes such statistics difficult to compare.

Because death is a rare outcome for a marijuana overdose does not mean it is safe.

I never said it was 37,000 overdoses. 37,000 alcohol related deaths.

Stop. It's not a rare outcome. It's physically impossible to overdose on THC. You would have to smoke something like ten times your body weight in weed for it to happen. It's not rare, it's impossible. Please don't misrepresent.

Is it a rare outcome to overdose on alcohol?

Headhunter wrote:Scientists been trying to kill animals with weed in experiments for a long time, they still can't do it.

Foo wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Foo wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Jason wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Jason wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Jason wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Jason wrote:

Headhunter wrote:Everyone can have their own personal experiences that differs from the consensus.

Well, booya. You finally admitted the point I was making. Not all experiences are the same. Stop pretending weed is 1000x "safer" to drive under than alcohol. They are equally dangerous overall. One more dangerous than the other, depending on the person. Stop calling Foo a liar. Disrespectful. OMG

It's almost like people can have their own unique experiences based on a number of parameters including drug tolerance and it's still also true that all things equal weed is 1000x safer to drive under. How you "feel" based on a friend's story does not mean a thing in reality. Data is much more relevant.

Again, get over that I called you out. No one cares, least of all me.

I'm not trying to push buttons, but you've said yourself on multiple occasions that you do not trust yourself with alcohol. It is just different with every body. Some people prefer one to the other. Some people can handle one over the other better. Some people are more prone to getting addicted over one than the other. You prefer marijuana, that is no secret. But there are other people like you who will make the exact same argument about alcohol over marijuana.

Their argument is false though. Alcohol is a far more dangerous substance. I can smoke all the weed in my house right now and just get a great night's sleep. What would happen if you drank all the alcohol in your house right now?

That's the closed-mindedness I'm talking about. "Their argument is false" because you want it to be or refuse to believe it. Marijuana literally caused a chemical imbalance in someone's brain that I know personally and nearly drove her insane. Maybe we don't know as much about marijuana as everyone pretends to.

If I drank all the alcohol in my house I would get a tiny buzz. I've got like 4 shots of Devil's Cut left.

Dude, following a combination of data and common sense does not make me closed-minded. There isn't a single solitary data point that reflects the theory that weed is as bad for driving as alcohol. It's cool you know 2 people in an 8 billion person works who proved all that wrong though. Wtf

Let's say you have 4 bottles of it. If you finished that and I smoke an obscene amount of weed tonight, only one of us will be miserable tomorrow. Why?

There's the dismissal. "Oh, so you know 2 people. Big deal". Yeah. This shit didn't even make the local newspaper. Nobody but like twenty people and some of HMF know about this because I shared the story. This shit certainly happens far more than you want to believe it does.

Don't do it. You may get a chemical imbalance in your brain, kill your girlfriend and dive into the sewers with the Ninja Turtles and order a shit load of pizza. Not good. This shit has a separate affect on people. Why you're refuting it, other than preferring weed over alcohol, is beyond me.

Uh, because I'm right. Alcohol kills people. More than 37.000 per year in this country. Zero cases of a marijuana overdose in history.

You're trying too hard here. Just accept that your cases are the exceptions and not the rule. You're having to do guess work to prove your case, there's hard data establishing the prevalence of alcohol related deaths, especially on the road. I'm not being dismissive, I'm just using facts. You somehow believe that a 0.1% exception proves they're equally dangerous. One of the craziest fallacies I've ever seen in an argument.

Those numbers are not true.

Alcoholism contributes to that many deaths. There are nowhere near that many overdose deaths.

Also, the illegal nature of marijuana makes such statistics difficult to compare.

Because death is a rare outcome for a marijuana overdose does not mean it is safe.

I never said it was 37,000 overdoses. 37,000 alcohol related deaths.

Stop. It's not a rare outcome. It's physically impossible to overdose on THC. You would have to smoke something like ten times your body weight in weed for it to happen. It's not rare, it's impossible. Please don't misrepresent.

Is it a rare outcome to overdose on alcohol?

Yeah, it is fairly rare to have a fatal acutely overdose of alcohol when you consider the numbers. It usually borders on intentional, like frat hazing, butt chugging, or some other extreme circumstance the person creates.

Neither weed nor alcohol result in acute overdose death for even heavy abusers. No one dies from acute nicotine overdoses, but no one tries to say tobacco is safe.

Foo wrote:

Headhunter wrote:Scientists been trying to kill animals with weed in experiments for a long time, they still can't do it.

I can't kill a mouse by making it ingest or inhale tobacco, so clearly chewing tobacco and cigarettes are safe.

Foo wrote:Guy wraps car around tree after getting drunk. Is alcohol a factor?

Guy wraps car around tree after getting high? Was weed a factor?

Lies, damn lies, and statistics.

Headhunter wrote:

Foo wrote:

Headhunter wrote:Scientists been trying to kill animals with weed in experiments for a long time, they still can't do it.

I can't kill a mouse by making it ingest or inhale tobacco, so clearly chewing tobacco and cigarettes are safe.

Tell me about the marijuana overdoses you claim are rare but can happen.