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Jason wrote:

zombie wrote:

Jason wrote:

zombie wrote:

Jason wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:The UK death rate is twice what ours is. People in glass houses you know.

I love how it's conveniently ignored that America has 340 million god damn people.

Liberals are cheering at every death in hopes they can use it to sabotage Trump's presidential run. No matter your politics, this is disgusting.

it is disgusting. no one on hmf is cheering that. most liberals, even, are probably not cheering that.

Using death as a platform to blame someone just because he's orange and you don't like him is equally disgusting.

don't use death as a platform to blame anyone for faults. or use it to blame everyone for their faults. one or the other.

The WHO and China knew this disease was extremely contagious and flat out told Trump that it is not contagious. They knew people were going to die and refused to be informative about the disease. Trump still took action. It's estimated that the spread of this virus would have been 95% smaller than what it has been if only China and the WHO didn't lie. It likely would've never left China.

The bias is clear. I have asked countless times why people in here are blaming Trump for deaths and not blaming the actual parties responsible for the outbreak spreading out of China. The answer? "Oh, that's- Well, Trump- That's in the past. Trump is responsible for all the deaths now".

Seriously. Tigg and I are the only people who have slammed China and the WHO, the parties responsible. Everyone else is slamming Trump. He should be universally praised for taking action as early as he did, despite being lied to.

i've seen seb acknowledge that there is blame to throw at china. i have as well. i haven't really spoke about the who at all. so, that's fair to accuse me of...

Jason wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:The UK death rate is twice what ours is. People in glass houses you know.

I love how it's conveniently ignored that America has 340 million god damn people.

Liberals are cheering at every death in hopes they can use it to sabotage Trump's presidential run. No matter your politics, this is disgusting.

I have not heard one liberal cheer about the deaths. C'mon man. Dont be what you preach to others about. Youre better than that brotha.

Sure, China is a big part of it. I agree 100%. There , I said it. I've been more concerned about our response as a country, and people who get their news from YouTube and facebook. But yeah, China is not our friend in this.

i don't really understand what there is to gain by blaming trump for covid deaths, or for blaming china.

i know that there is danger in blaming china, as a nation with a chinese-american population.

i know there is danger in taking blame of china, or of trump, personally, as criticism or hate for yourself.

zombie wrote:i don't really understand what there is to gain by blaming trump for covid deaths, or for blaming china.

i know that there is danger in blaming china, as a nation with a chinese-american population.

i know there is danger in taking blame of china, or of trump, personally, as criticism or hate for yourself.

There's a reason Chinese-Americans are in America and not in China.

Jason wrote:

zombie wrote:i don't really understand what there is to gain by blaming trump for covid deaths, or for blaming china.

i know that there is danger in blaming china, as a nation with a chinese-american population.

i know there is danger in taking blame of china, or of trump, personally, as criticism or hate for yourself.

There's a reason Chinese-Americans are in America and not in China.

that's not an issue. i'm not trying to make a case that they shouldn't be american.

They're in America because China sucks.

"china sucks" is irrelevant. blaming china in any kind of large group, or following, has a serious potential to affect chinese-americans.

zombie wrote:"china sucks" is irrelevant. blaming china in any kind of large group, or following, has a serious potential to affect chinese-americans.

Hint: Most Chinese-Americans feel the same way I do.

Jason wrote:

zombie wrote:"china sucks" is irrelevant. blaming china in any kind of large group, or following, has a serious potential to affect chinese-americans.

Hint: Most Chinese-Americans feel the same way I do.

so what? how does that undo what i'm saying?

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:can we knock off this whole crap about "i can't have a conversation with you", as if your opinions are not ever formed by bias, at least on some level.

It’s his call, happy for him to not engage me with conspiracies at his leisure.

i mean, i guess so. but i don't think anyone's opinion or point of view is any more or less worth discussing. and if you don't feel like discussing something, just move past it. don't make a show out of it. but that's all up to you guys, i guess.

That would be the normal way to do things. it’s why I often don’t reply to some of the stuff posted but don’t highlight to people just how important it is I didn’t engage.

Reign in Blood wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Jason wrote:

showa58taro wrote:I can find literally nothing to support anything like it. It looks to me like the desperate ploy of someone trying to sweep under the carpet the fact that they let 100,000+ people die and want to avoid losing an election without ever doing something to improve the outcome for the citizens they lead. But maybe if anything credible comes out (it won’t) I’ll change my mind.

You need to not let bias form your opinions. If you think Trump is responsible for one single death regarding this virus, then there is no discussing anything with you, unfortunately.

I do. I absolutely do think Trump and this corrupt clown posse of sycophants around him and GOP toadies are why your death toll is 100k and not 1k.

Let us not use hyperbole in the other direction. 1k is mythical fantasy and you know it. The fallout from this is astronomical, most haven't even paid the piper yet.

I was being nice trying to give him 1% credit. You’re right, this will go very badly given no effort is being made to curtail the effects.

Tiggnutz wrote:The UK death rate is twice what ours is. People in glass houses you know.

No, I don’t. If you want to criticize UK or Sweden go right ahead. Won’t make the Trump response any stringer, he’s still be the President whose inaction and failure killed 100,000 Americans.

showa58taro wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:The UK death rate is twice what ours is. People in glass houses you know.

No, I don’t. If you want to criticize UK or Sweden go right ahead. Won’t make the Trump response any stringer, he’s still be the President whose inaction and failure killed 100,000 Americans.

Italy France Spain Belgium Netherlands ,UK basically all of Europe have death rates 2 or 2.5 times what ours is so what's your explanation for them. Even more inaction? What you are saying doesn't make any reasonable sense and clearly is based on Trump hatred and that's all.

The U.K. and Sweden are responding totally differently to the virus. Sweden is kicking ass and they aren't on lockdown.

I would not criticize any of these countries because it wasn't any of their fault. Nobody knows as of yet what would of been the best course of action we are all learning together.

An accurate representation of how intimidating their military is.

Tiggnutz wrote:I would not criticize any of these countries because it wasn't any of their fault. Nobody knows as of yet what would of been the best course of action we are all learning together.

That’s a garbage position in every way. Why shouldn’t you criticize when their actions and inactions is costing lives? Surely now is the most important time to be critical and expect better. There is nothing to be gained by criticizing the oranges, the oranges of this pandemic. There’s plenty to criticize over how we have handled things in every country and lessons to learn. Some countries have kept deaths to under 1k and others have not. Trying to bridge that gap and ensure we have clarity over the missteps (and therefore the appropriate way forward) is crucial in getting through this, improving the outcome and assessing strategy going forward.

Saying it’s inevitable 100k+ people should die so no point criticizing Trump is insane. So would pretending there isn’t a care home issue in Sweden that we failed to get to grips with. These are areas of inaction that resulted in lost time and lost lives that we absolutely have to be critical of.

showa58taro wrote:

Reign in Blood wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Jason wrote:

showa58taro wrote:I can find literally nothing to support anything like it. It looks to me like the desperate ploy of someone trying to sweep under the carpet the fact that they let 100,000+ people die and want to avoid losing an election without ever doing something to improve the outcome for the citizens they lead. But maybe if anything credible comes out (it won’t) I’ll change my mind.

You need to not let bias form your opinions. If you think Trump is responsible for one single death regarding this virus, then there is no discussing anything with you, unfortunately.

I do. I absolutely do think Trump and this corrupt clown posse of sycophants around him and GOP toadies are why your death toll is 100k and not 1k.

Let us not use hyperbole in the other direction. 1k is mythical fantasy and you know it. The fallout from this is astronomical, most haven't even paid the piper yet.

I was being nice trying to give him 1% credit. You’re right, this will go very badly given no effort is being made to curtail the effects.

The virus is the virus. You put the world on lockdown because the air offends you, more than a thousand people are gonna fucking die.

Reign in Blood wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Reign in Blood wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Jason wrote:

showa58taro wrote:I can find literally nothing to support anything like it. It looks to me like the desperate ploy of someone trying to sweep under the carpet the fact that they let 100,000+ people die and want to avoid losing an election without ever doing something to improve the outcome for the citizens they lead. But maybe if anything credible comes out (it won’t) I’ll change my mind.

You need to not let bias form your opinions. If you think Trump is responsible for one single death regarding this virus, then there is no discussing anything with you, unfortunately.

I do. I absolutely do think Trump and this corrupt clown posse of sycophants around him and GOP toadies are why your death toll is 100k and not 1k.

Let us not use hyperbole in the other direction. 1k is mythical fantasy and you know it. The fallout from this is astronomical, most haven't even paid the piper yet.

I was being nice trying to give him 1% credit. You’re right, this will go very badly given no effort is being made to curtail the effects.

The virus is the virus. You put the world on lockdown because the air offends you, more than a thousand people are gonna fucking die.

You don’t put the world on lockdown and instead of thousand you get million. No brainer to me.