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What is forcing the implementation of better policing in that case?

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:The city is already broken if you have shitty cops.

it is broken. does that mean anything and everything is fair game in justification to affect the change in the police department? are there any lines that you would draw at all, or no?

If what’s happened in Minneapolis is what it takes to affect change and that’s enough to get it done, it’s absolutely worth it. Of course, that’s unlikely. But if cops continue to murder black people during an economic depression, things will get 100x worse than people stealing tires. You want a repeat of the early 70s, with black militant groups committing real acts of terror? All our war with cops in every city? That will happen if America continues to allow this.

yeah, it could get worse. no, i don't want that. obviously.

Nobody does. Nobody wants people stealing tires either but we’re better off if that’s the worst we get.

the lesser of two evils is still evil.

So it’s better to do nothing and let the greater of two evils overwhelm us? You can’t pick and choose the bits you’re comfortable with like it’s a real option, you have to make compromises and live with the negative effects.

no, it's gonna happen or not, regardless of me. all i can do is react. all i'm doing here is posting to friends on a message board.

"someone shoots up a school. let's ban violent entertainment." <--- you can pick and choose what you're comfortable with, or not.

Yes, everything we discuss is hypothetical. That doesn’t mean when we have discussions we should arbitrarily pick and choose the things we’re comfortable with and act like they’re going to lead to the best results. What’s the point of that? Everything in life is compromise.

...what?

That Minnesota Auto Zone is gonna burn forever with all those tires in it.

Headhunter wrote:What is forcing the implementation of better policing in that case?

You lock cops up for long ass times preferably with federal charges and I think that will change how cops act and again this is a small percentage of cops the vast majority are good

Tiggnutz wrote:

Headhunter wrote:What is forcing the implementation of better policing in that case?

You lock cops up for long ass times preferably with federal charges and I think that will change how cops act and again this is a small percentage of cops the vast majority are good

Has that not happened before? If so, why do we expect dramatic change now?

It doesn’t matter how many are good. When bad cops are protected, the entire institution is bad.

Lot of people coming forward talking about what a monster this cop was, going back more than a decade. Why didn’t these good cops flush the turd?

There are literal billboard advertisements in California asking people to become police officers. Nobody wants to because 99.9% are lumped in with the very rare portion of police officers who are scum. Sorry, California. You love to shame police, now you get a lack of police.

"Cop Saves Day" doesn't make headlines. It happens too frequently and the media wants clickbait conflict. They love that the guy died under that officer's knee.

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:The city is already broken if you have shitty cops.

it is broken. does that mean anything and everything is fair game in justification to affect the change in the police department? are there any lines that you would draw at all, or no?

If what’s happened in Minneapolis is what it takes to affect change and that’s enough to get it done, it’s absolutely worth it. Of course, that’s unlikely. But if cops continue to murder black people during an economic depression, things will get 100x worse than people stealing tires. You want a repeat of the early 70s, with black militant groups committing real acts of terror? All our war with cops in every city? That will happen if America continues to allow this.

yeah, it could get worse. no, i don't want that. obviously.

Nobody does. Nobody wants people stealing tires either but we’re better off if that’s the worst we get.

the lesser of two evils is still evil.

So it’s better to do nothing and let the greater of two evils overwhelm us? You can’t pick and choose the bits you’re comfortable with like it’s a real option, you have to make compromises and live with the negative effects.

no, it's gonna happen or not, regardless of me. all i can do is react. all i'm doing here is posting to friends on a message board.

"someone shoots up a school. let's ban violent entertainment." <--- you can pick and choose what you're comfortable with, or not.

Yes, everything we discuss is hypothetical. That doesn’t mean when we have discussions we should arbitrarily pick and choose the things we’re comfortable with and act like they’re going to lead to the best results. What’s the point of that? Everything in life is compromise.

...what?

i'm stating my own single position. things are gonna happen, beyond my influence. i don't know what will lead to the best results. if the people of minneapolis feel like it's justified to loot and harm civilians to enact change within the police department.. that's up to them. you're telling me that i have to be okay with it, or what? *shrug*

we've had discussions before about what would or wouldn't be okay, as a step toward a change. in that case gun violence. and violent entertainment was seen as a possible solution, by some in the larger society.

Jason wrote:There are literal billboard advertisements in California asking people to become police officers. Nobody wants to because 99.9% are lumped in with the very rare portion of police officers who are scum. Sorry, California. You love to shame police, now you get a lack of police.

"Cop Saves Day" doesn't make headlines. It happens too frequently and the media wants clickbait conflict. They love that the guy died under that officer's knee.

no one wanted him to die, or loves that he died. shut up!

This also happens to white people as frequently or more frequently. It just doesn't make national news because there is no race narrative. Even when it's a black cop fucking some white dude up, the narrative has to be that only white people are bad.

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:The city is already broken if you have shitty cops.

it is broken. does that mean anything and everything is fair game in justification to affect the change in the police department? are there any lines that you would draw at all, or no?

If what’s happened in Minneapolis is what it takes to affect change and that’s enough to get it done, it’s absolutely worth it. Of course, that’s unlikely. But if cops continue to murder black people during an economic depression, things will get 100x worse than people stealing tires. You want a repeat of the early 70s, with black militant groups committing real acts of terror? All our war with cops in every city? That will happen if America continues to allow this.

yeah, it could get worse. no, i don't want that. obviously.

Nobody does. Nobody wants people stealing tires either but we’re better off if that’s the worst we get.

the lesser of two evils is still evil.

So it’s better to do nothing and let the greater of two evils overwhelm us? You can’t pick and choose the bits you’re comfortable with like it’s a real option, you have to make compromises and live with the negative effects.

no, it's gonna happen or not, regardless of me. all i can do is react. all i'm doing here is posting to friends on a message board.

"someone shoots up a school. let's ban violent entertainment." <--- you can pick and choose what you're comfortable with, or not.

Yes, everything we discuss is hypothetical. That doesn’t mean when we have discussions we should arbitrarily pick and choose the things we’re comfortable with and act like they’re going to lead to the best results. What’s the point of that? Everything in life is compromise.

...what?

i'm stating my own single position. things are gonna happen, beyond my influence. i don't know what will lead to the best results. if the people of minneapolis feel like it's justified to loot and harm civilians to enact change within the police department.. that's up to them. you're telling me that i have to be okay with it, or what? *shrug*

we've had discussions before about what would or wouldn't be okay, as a step toward a change. in that case gun violence. and violent entertainment was seen as a possible solution, by some in the larger society.

I’m not telling you what to think at all. But you want to have your cake and eat it too. You want peace and civility that leads to dramatic change. That just doesn’t happen. World isn’t wired to react in that capacity. We all wish it would. I’m willing to go out on a limb and say this is preferable to some other outcomes. I’m okay with looking like an asshole in saying that.

zombie wrote:

Jason wrote:There are literal billboard advertisements in California asking people to become police officers. Nobody wants to because 99.9% are lumped in with the very rare portion of police officers who are scum. Sorry, California. You love to shame police, now you get a lack of police.

"Cop Saves Day" doesn't make headlines. It happens too frequently and the media wants clickbait conflict. They love that the guy died under that officer's knee.

no one wanted him to die, or loves that he died. shut up!

Maybe that was slightly too far. But they push the narrative and reap the rewards. Just gross.

Headhunter wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:

Headhunter wrote:What is forcing the implementation of better policing in that case?

You lock cops up for long ass times preferably with federal charges and I think that will change how cops act and again this is a small percentage of cops the vast majority are good

Has that not happened before? If so, why do we expect dramatic change now?

It doesn’t matter how many are good. When bad cops are protected, the entire institution is bad.

It's not entirely bad that's as bad as any other stereotype. Make federal laws that aggressively punish cops who abuse power. Dont link this scumbag with all police it's not fair. The Michael Brown case is a perfect example that cop did what he had to do and in the media provoked view he was the bad guy for only doing his job

Jason wrote:This also happens to white people as frequently or more frequently. It just doesn't make national news because there is no race narrative. Even when it's a black cop fucking some white dude up, the narrative has to he that only white people are bad.

is anyone using this to justify racism toward caucasians? show me?

Looks like a good time to bail on this conversation good luck fellas

Tiggnutz wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:

Headhunter wrote:What is forcing the implementation of better policing in that case?

You lock cops up for long ass times preferably with federal charges and I think that will change how cops act and again this is a small percentage of cops the vast majority are good

Has that not happened before? If so, why do we expect dramatic change now?

It doesn’t matter how many are good. When bad cops are protected, the entire institution is bad.

It's not entirely bad that's as bad as any other stereotype. Make federal laws that aggressively punish cops who abuse power. Dont link this scumbag with all police it's not fair. The Michael Brown case is a perfect example that cop did what he had to do and in the media provoked view he was the bad guy for only doing his job

Again, if the entire institution is covering for bad cops, the entire institution is bad. Want to save the reputation of police departments? Good cops need to rat on their dirty brothers. Very few are willing to do that and every citizen is worse for it.

zombie wrote:

Jason wrote:This also happens to white people as frequently or more frequently. It just doesn't make national news because there is no race narrative. Even when it's a black cop fucking some white dude up, the narrative has to he that only white people are bad.

is anyone using this to justify racism toward caucasians? show me?

Painting the narrative with the main title being "White cop murders black person" is where they are justifying it. Their headlines are justifying horrible behavior without them directly saying so. The more race war, the more money for the media. Keep the cash flowing.

Love youse guys!

Headhunter wrote: I’m not telling you what to think at all. But you want to have your cake and eat it too. You want peace and civility that leads to dramatic change. That just doesn’t happen. World isn’t wired to react in that capacity. We all wish it would. I’m willing to go out on a limb and say this is preferable to some other outcomes. I’m okay with looking like an asshole in saying that.

i've already said that there could be worse outcomes. so let's look like assholes together, i guess...

if the lesser of two evils is what we have to have. so be it. it could be the lesser and that's the end of it. or could be that people feel like that wasn't enough, and go to the next evil. we'll have to wait and see, i guess. how far is too far.. but you can't pick and choose what you're comfortable with.

Headhunter wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:

Headhunter wrote:What is forcing the implementation of better policing in that case?

You lock cops up for long ass times preferably with federal charges and I think that will change how cops act and again this is a small percentage of cops the vast majority are good

Has that not happened before? If so, why do we expect dramatic change now?

It doesn’t matter how many are good. When bad cops are protected, the entire institution is bad.

It's not entirely bad that's as bad as any other stereotype. Make federal laws that aggressively punish cops who abuse power. Dont link this scumbag with all police it's not fair. The Michael Brown case is a perfect example that cop did what he had to do and in the media provoked view he was the bad guy for only doing his job

Again, if the entire institution is covering for bad cops, the entire institution is bad. Want to save the reputation of police departments? Good cops need to rat on their dirty brothers. Very few are willing to do that and every citizen is worse for it.

Long sentencing broke the mob it will do the same with bad cops