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I disagree, Seb. It's hard to fathom just how much educators in the South were willing to distort the facts to glorify Southern culture. This is the reason we have this weird subsection of CSA supporters who aren't racist.

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote: My point is that it's a pretty weird demographic that was against slavery and the south but wants to preserve general Lee in statue form.

well, what does trump represent to you? does your take on him mean that foo is wrong for seeing something different in him? do you think less of foo because he does not denounce trump?

Not sure that I see the equivalent. How do you abstract a General from the war he fought?

hmmm.. you're arguing that everyone who feels pride in what robert e lee represents to them is either removing him from his time or is a racist? if so, context is important. and racism sucks.

Yeah, pretty much. Except for true historians who may have an intellectual fascination with Kee, the man, it seems like you can't take Slavery and the South away from a statue of Lee as a confederate general.

dream seemed to feel he deserved to be remembered in a decent light, what do you make of that?

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote: My point is that it's a pretty weird demographic that was against slavery and the south but wants to preserve general Lee in statue form.

well, what does trump represent to you? does your take on him mean that foo is wrong for seeing something different in him? do you think less of foo because he does not denounce trump?

Not sure that I see the equivalent. How do you abstract a General from the war he fought?

hmmm.. you're arguing that everyone who feels pride in what robert e lee represents to them is either removing him from his time or is a racist? if so, context is important. and racism sucks.

Yeah, pretty much. Except for true historians who may have an intellectual fascination with Kee, the man, it seems like you can't take Slavery and the South away from a statue of Lee as a confederate general.

dream seemed to feel he deserved to be remembered in a decent light, what do you make of that?

Didn't she say he shouldn't have been honored as a Confederate general? REALLY significant distinction there.

Headhunter wrote: Didn't she say he shouldn't have been honored as a Confederate general? REALLY significant distinction there.

yeah, that is a fair point.

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote: Didn't she say he shouldn't have been honored as a Confederate general? REALLY significant distinction there.

yeah, that is a fair point.

I'm on record in this thread saying I would not mind a statue of Lee serving in the U.S. army, perhaps on campaign in Mexico.

You simply cannot separate Lee in Confederate uniform from the Confederacy. And you simply cannot separate the Confederacy from oppression and evil.

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote: Didn't she say he shouldn't have been honored as a Confederate general? REALLY significant distinction there.

yeah, that is a fair point.

I'm on record in this thread saying I would not mind a statue of Lee serving in the U.S. army, perhaps on campaign in Mexico.

You simply cannot separate Lee in Confederate uniform from the Confederacy. And you simply cannot separate the Confederacy from oppression and evil.

and i'm on record (probably in this thread) saying that if the statue is taken to represent racism and inspire racism, universally, then remove it.

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote: Didn't she say he shouldn't have been honored as a Confederate general? REALLY significant distinction there.

yeah, that is a fair point.

I'm on record in this thread saying I would not mind a statue of Lee serving in the U.S. army, perhaps on campaign in Mexico.

You simply cannot separate Lee in Confederate uniform from the Confederacy. And you simply cannot separate the Confederacy from oppression and evil.

and i'm on record (probably in this thread) saying that if the statue is taken to represent racism and inspire racism, universally, then remove it.

How universal does universal have to be? If your only opposition was racists, that would qualify as universal in a practical sense, right?

Right now, it seems to be a loooooot of people appalled by them and a tiny minority who want them for non-racial reasons. Obviously not factoring in the "who cares" crowd which is most of America most of the time.

It's never been about the statue, zombs! This fight, wait, who is winning this? No one?

Reign in Blood wrote:It's never been about the statue, zombs! This fight, wait, who is winning this? No one?

Well, the South lost so definitely not them.

I get roped into a lot of that "West Was Won" shit.

Reign in Blood wrote:I get roped into a lot of that "West Was Won" shit.

Everyone was. It's so deeply entrenched in American culture, right down to little kids playing with Cowboy and Indian toys.

Western history in the U.S. in reality is mostly boring. Mostly legal cases involving the federal government. Was a lot more of a structured life than is presented.

That's a pretty fucking brilliant analogy, so kudos. It is the same principle.

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote: Didn't she say he shouldn't have been honored as a Confederate general? REALLY significant distinction there.

yeah, that is a fair point.

I'm on record in this thread saying I would not mind a statue of Lee serving in the U.S. army, perhaps on campaign in Mexico.

You simply cannot separate Lee in Confederate uniform from the Confederacy. And you simply cannot separate the Confederacy from oppression and evil.

and i'm on record (probably in this thread) saying that if the statue is taken to represent racism and inspire racism, universally, then remove it.

How universal does universal have to be? If your only opposition was racists, that would qualify as universal in a practical sense, right?

Right now, it seems to be a loooooot of people appalled by them and a tiny minority who want them for non-racial reasons. Obviously not factoring in the "who cares" crowd which is most of America most of the time.

if only racists hold robert e lee in a favorable light, then by all means, take down the statue.

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote: Didn't she say he shouldn't have been honored as a Confederate general? REALLY significant distinction there.

yeah, that is a fair point.

I'm on record in this thread saying I would not mind a statue of Lee serving in the U.S. army, perhaps on campaign in Mexico.

You simply cannot separate Lee in Confederate uniform from the Confederacy. And you simply cannot separate the Confederacy from oppression and evil.

and i'm on record (probably in this thread) saying that if the statue is taken to represent racism and inspire racism, universally, then remove it.

How universal does universal have to be? If your only opposition was racists, that would qualify as universal in a practical sense, right?

Right now, it seems to be a loooooot of people appalled by them and a tiny minority who want them for non-racial reasons. Obviously not factoring in the "who cares" crowd which is most of America most of the time.

if only racists hold robert e lee in a favorable light, then by all means, take down the statue.

We'll just have to work on the ones whose heads have been filled with bullshit until then! They are innocent victims of Southern apologism.

Coming full circle, a stereotypical "West won" perspective in a western rather than southern argument wouldn't hold any water either, no matter what they believe. Because facts tend to dispute non-facts.

Reign in Blood wrote:It's never been about the statue, zombs! This fight, wait, who is winning this? No one?

for this thread, it was about the statue indirectly. i don't think it was really about the statue for the anti-protestors in charlottesville. but i don't know for sure.

zombie wrote:

Reign in Blood wrote:It's never been about the statue, zombs! This fight, wait, who is winning this? No one?

for this thread, it was about the statue indirectly. i don't think it was really about the statue for the anti-protestors in charlottesville. but i don't know for sure.

No, they were there to help protect the people the "statue protesters" want eradicated from the face of Earth.

What the old government taught was indoctrination. What the new government teaches is the truth. The old government was literally building monuments to evil. The new government will tear down those monuments!

Foo wrote:What the old government taught was indoctrination. What the new government teaches is the truth. The old government was literally building monuments to evil. The new government will tear down those monuments!

Sure.

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:

Reign in Blood wrote:It's never been about the statue, zombs! This fight, wait, who is winning this? No one?

for this thread, it was about the statue indirectly. i don't think it was really about the statue for the anti-protestors in charlottesville. but i don't know for sure.

No, they were there to help protect the people the "statue protesters" want eradicated from the face of Earth.

Nope.