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Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:well, i haven't heard of non-violent ways to change the system being advocated. i've heard a lot of support and advocating of violent ways to change the system. guns could only help to bring that advocated violence along.

Breaking windows to shooting people is quite the leap.

but does it matter how the change is worked toward, or not?

That isn’t how this works.

no, we don't decide, they do. if people in the community decide that they need to use guns then they will.

LOL. Some old guy in Salt Lake City pulled out a hunting bow and threatened to shoot arrows at protesters. Huge crowd converges and beats the shit out of him, then sets his truck on fire.

How did this guy think that was gonna go?

Abhorrent behavior by police all over the country today. Thugs.

Headhunter wrote:Abhorrent behavior by police all over the country today. Thugs.

thugs indeed.

For some local flavor of barbarism, protesters were tear-gassed by police yesterday and today in Fort Wayne, Indiana. If it wasn't for the podcast I did yesterday, I likely would have gone to it.

Tear gas is prohibited from use in warfare by the Geneva Convention, but police in the US use it on their own citizens.

Headhunter wrote:Tear gas is prohibited from use in warfare by the Geneva Convention, but police in the US use it on their own citizens.

how can we help rioters to change what is acceptable for the police to use in their arsenal?

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:Tear gas is prohibited from use in warfare by the Geneva Convention, but police in the US use it on their own citizens.

how can we help rioters to change what is acceptable for the police to use in their arsenal?

That's 100% on the police and their training and methods.

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:Tear gas is prohibited from use in warfare by the Geneva Convention, but police in the US use it on their own citizens.

how can we help rioters to change what is acceptable for the police to use in their arsenal?

That's 100% on the police and their training and methods.

so what we're left with to be on the side of the black community is to be cowards and just let them do whatever they want to you or me or whoever else, in their fight with the cops. but we also just have to cry into the wind, instead of being able to actually help them against the cops. that bites.

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:Tear gas is prohibited from use in warfare by the Geneva Convention, but police in the US use it on their own citizens.

how can we help rioters to change what is acceptable for the police to use in their arsenal?

That's 100% on the police and their training and methods.

so what we're left with to be on the side of the black community is to be cowards and just let them do whatever they want to you or me or whoever else, in their fight with the cops. but we also just have to cry into the wind, instead of being able to actually help them against the cops. that bites.

Once you give the police all these toys to play with, they're not likely to throw them away.

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:Tear gas is prohibited from use in warfare by the Geneva Convention, but police in the US use it on their own citizens.

how can we help rioters to change what is acceptable for the police to use in their arsenal?

That's 100% on the police and their training and methods.

so what we're left with to be on the side of the black community is to be cowards and just let them do whatever they want to you or me or whoever else, in their fight with the cops. but we also just have to cry into the wind, instead of being able to actually help them against the cops. that bites.

Once you give the police all these toys to play with, they're not likely to throw them away.

both sides are gonna do whatever they're gonna do, while we can only sit on our thumbs.

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:Tear gas is prohibited from use in warfare by the Geneva Convention, but police in the US use it on their own citizens.

how can we help rioters to change what is acceptable for the police to use in their arsenal?

That's 100% on the police and their training and methods.

so what we're left with to be on the side of the black community is to be cowards and just let them do whatever they want to you or me or whoever else, in their fight with the cops. but we also just have to cry into the wind, instead of being able to actually help them against the cops. that bites.

Once you give the police all these toys to play with, they're not likely to throw them away.

both sides are gonna do whatever they're gonna do, while we can only sit on our thumbs.

Well, that's not completely true. As far as direct action goes, you could either go out and defend the police like bow and arrow guy, or march alongside the protesters and see what it's like on the front lines.

There's also donating money to causes you support, calling your representatives to express your grievances or just taking the time to read about this stuff. All helpful in one way or another.

Headhunter wrote:There's also donating money to causes you support, calling your representatives to express your grievances or just taking the time to read about this stuff. All helpful in one way or another.

we already do this. this has already been done, outcry against the police has gone on too. the fuckass murderer cop in minnesota had been called out before within that community. and yet, here we are. so it doesn't amount to actual help apparently.

helping should be siding with an oppressed group against their oppressors, when you have that chance. and calling out oppression toward that group when you can.

looking the other way and saying nothing when they damage the very community that they have to live in, and hurt innocents within that community is just one more way to allow them to be hurt or oppressed.

zombie wrote:does a good guy with a gun even exist?

Not in my world but I’m told that’s the basis of the entire second amendment.

https://youtu.be/v4amCfVbA_c

This video should be watched by z as it summarizes my thoughts succinctly. It is 18 minutes.

if the societal contract is null and people can do whatever they need to do, than it has to apply to everyone. if there is no contract, there is no way to change it without violence. if that's what we want, it is essentially the wild west. i can accept that. i can not accept that the contract should be held to, by the majority, but the minorities don't have to hold to it on any kind of level at all. if i can protect myself from you, as member of a minority, i can accept that. if i'm just supposed to roll over and let you do whatever you feel you need to to me and my community, that's fucked.

so what is it? is it that we need a new societal contract and until then, everyone acts like the wild west. do whatever they need to do for themselves. or is it that only the minorities can act that way, while the majority still has to hold to a social contract that is null in the eyes of the minorities?

"i don't think i've ever seen anything like that, especially not in america. i haven't seen a police video come out, and just see across the board... foxnews commentators, police chiefs across the country immediately condemning what they saw. no questions, not what was he doing. no, what happened here was wrong. this person got murdered on camera,"

so change can be worked toward, people do agree that it's wrong, without equivocation, without question, even by admission of a member of that minority. so how do we work from there? how can that continue within the social contract in whatever shape it is? or do we toss it out? because it's going to be a lot harder to negotiate and to work toward an acceptable contract, if we have to rewrite it from scratch. but if that's where we are, that's where we are.

"how does it help you to loot target? yeah, well how does it help you to not loot target? answer that question..."

because without stores and businesses, you don't eat. you don't have clothes on your back. and more importantly you don't have a means to support yourself. you don't get money into your community to buy food, or to buy clothes, and other comforts. you become even more of a have not. and everyone becomes more of a have not.