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At that speed I think he had no choice. I'd bet he was leaning towards the glove box to get the registration on the order of the cop. I know if I lean for something it is not a move I can snap out of in the time that took to escalate.

Headhunter wrote:

Reign in Blood wrote:

Headhunter wrote:He told him to not reach for the gun. He said he wasn't. He was getting his license, per the instructions of the police officer. To not get his license would have been not following orders. That's on the police officer.

Let us not act like he didn't give him additional orders, ones that were far more important because the situation just become potentially life threatening. Any rational person, who perhaps wasn't stoned off their ass and actually gave a fuck, would have put their hands in the air and explained that you are only reaching for your wallet, if the officer doesn't want that he will have to remove it.

Are we not using 20/20 hindsight here though? We're trying to explain how Castile could have acted rationally to save his life in a quick window, but nobody in that situation is probably thinking they're in that position. We know the shots are coming but nobody in that car at that moment could possibly expect it. It happens so quickly too.

It was really quick. I've never been pulled over so I don't know what I would do in the situation, but pretty sure I'd be listening intently and would follow every order. What I do know is, if I tell a complete stranger that I'm packing, I'm gonna expect some apprehension on their part. Both sides handled it poorly.

showa58taro wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

showa58taro wrote:We finally found a sliver of society Foo doesn't want locked up for life. Cops. What a glorious day.

The NRA are pricks. Where is their moral outrage over a legal gun owner being shot for his right to bear arms?!

From what I understand, the NRA is becoming pretty unpopular among gun owners. The truth that the NRA doesn't want people to know is that the majority of gun owners do want some common sense provisions like background checks, but it doesn't matter. The NRA is too powerful for any dissent among gun owners to see the light of day.

They lose a bit of credibility by not having the guts to stand up for an innocent man being shot for having a licensed gun. If the only thing they care about is white guys with shotguns then they should disband.

He was shot forcreschinb for a gun during a traffic stop, not for having a gun. The NRA is not like Black Lives Matter, they actually try to take stands where it makes sense, not just to self promote.

I can't figure out what word Foo is going for. Carrying a gun? Creating a gun? Crying for a gun?

showa58taro wrote:At that speed I think he had no choice. I'd bet he was leaning towards the glove box to get the registration on the order of the cop. I know if I lean for something it is not a move I can snap out of in the time that took to escalate.

It's always a good idea to tell someone you have a gun and then immediately reach for something.

showa58taro wrote:I can't figure out what word Foo is going for. Carrying a gun? Creating a gun? Crying for a gun?

reaching

I have been pulled over several times. I suspect it is profiling because of the vehicles I am often driving late at night. I keep my hands right on top of the steering wheel the entire time. I make eye contact with the officer and discuss each action before I take it.

"My drivers license is in my wallet, in my side pocket, would you like me to reach for it now? My insurance car is in the center console, would you like me to reach for it now? I might have to dig around for a minute to find it, is that ok?"

showa58taro wrote:I can't figure out what word Foo is going for. Carrying a gun? Creating a gun? Crying for a gun?

Reaching. Sorry for the phone typing.

both handled it poorly. castile said the word gun while he was reaching for something, per the orders of the cop. the cop reacted to the word gun.

Reign in Blood wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Reign in Blood wrote:

Headhunter wrote:He told him to not reach for the gun. He said he wasn't. He was getting his license, per the instructions of the police officer. To not get his license would have been not following orders. That's on the police officer.

Let us not act like he didn't give him additional orders, ones that were far more important because the situation just become potentially life threatening. Any rational person, who perhaps wasn't stoned off their ass and actually gave a fuck, would have put their hands in the air and explained that you are only reaching for your wallet, if the officer doesn't want that he will have to remove it.

Are we not using 20/20 hindsight here though? We're trying to explain how Castile could have acted rationally to save his life in a quick window, but nobody in that situation is probably thinking they're in that position. We know the shots are coming but nobody in that car at that moment could possibly expect it. It happens so quickly too.

It was really quick. I've never been pulled over so I don't know what I would do in the situation, but pretty sure I'd be listening intently and would follow every order. What I do know is, if I tell a complete stranger that I'm packing, I'm gonna expect some apprehension on their part. Both sides handled it poorly.

But only one of them is supposed to be trained to handle those situations and prevent them from escalating. How many times a day in this country do you think someone gets pulled over and announces they have a firearm on them? I'd assume it happens all the time. Never heard of a story like this though. I bet there have been plenty of instances where a driver has reached for a wallet or registration after announcing they have a gun before without a cop immediately escalating the situation to a 10.

I just think Castile was a little too calm, patient, and part of that is probably being stoned but another part of that is probably experience and adjustment to being pulled over a lot, as all the times he'd been pulled over never resulted in criminal charges so it was just casual. The officer was clearly not operating at the speed for a casual interaction, thus the disconnect. I don't see how we get into the victim blaming with this though.

Zero evidence he was reaching for the gun and no logical reason to believe so either lol

Btw, the officer made a couple additional statements that are relevant:

- Castile looked like an armed robbery suspect (that officer saw the video of the robbery)
- when he approached the car, and smelled an overwhelming stench of freshly smoked marijuana with a child in the car, the officer though the people in the car might not have respect for human life.

Both added to his anxiety during the stop. Now you add a gun into the mix (remember cop already thinks he might be an armed robber), and there you go...

Reign in Blood wrote:

showa58taro wrote:At that speed I think he had no choice. I'd bet he was leaning towards the glove box to get the registration on the order of the cop. I know if I lean for something it is not a move I can snap out of in the time that took to escalate.

It's always a good idea to tell someone you have a gun and then immediately reach for something.

Who's to say he wasn't reaching for something as he said it, not after?

Reign in Blood wrote:

showa58taro wrote:At that speed I think he had no choice. I'd bet he was leaning towards the glove box to get the registration on the order of the cop. I know if I lean for something it is not a move I can snap out of in the time that took to escalate.

It's always a good idea to tell someone you have a gun and then immediately reach for something.

If he hadn't told him and reached and opened the glove compartment he'd be truly shot as well. There's no winning in civil life for black people it seems.

Just a regular reminder that Castile's facebooking girlfriend tried to beat someone to death with a hammer recently. In case we are to refute the officer's instinct that he stumbled onto some bad hombres.

Foo wrote:Btw, the officer made a couple additional statements that are relevant:

- Castile looked like an armed robbery suspect (that officer saw the video of the robbery)
- when he approached the car, and smelled an overwhelming stench of freshly smoked marijuana with a child in the car, the officer though the people in the car might not have respect for human life.

Both added to his anxiety during the stop. Now you add a gun into the mix (remember cop already thinks he might be an armed robber), and there you go...

1. But he wasn't the armed robber.
2. That's a nonsense conclusion.

Foo wrote:Btw, the officer made a couple additional statements that are relevant:

- Castile looked like an armed robbery suspect (that officer saw the video of the robbery)
- when he approached the car, and smelled an overwhelming stench of freshly smoked marijuana with a child in the car, the officer though the people in the car might not have respect for human life.

Both added to his anxiety during the stop. Now you add a gun into the mix (remember cop already thinks he might be an armed robber), and there you go...

if we're going to use the respect for human life angle, what about shooting four times into a car, with a child passenger?

Foo wrote:

showa58taro wrote:I can't figure out what word Foo is going for. Carrying a gun? Creating a gun? Crying for a gun?

Reaching. Sorry for the phone typing.

Ah. That makes sense. I was sure the cr part was valid. Could not make heads nor tails of it.

Foo wrote:Just a regular reminder that Castile's facebooking girlfriend tried to beat someone to death with a hammer recently. In case we are to refute the officer's instinct that he stumbled onto some bad hombres.

She didn't try to beat someone to death in the car in front of the officer. Irrelevant.

Foo wrote:Just a regular reminder that Castile's facebooking girlfriend tried to beat someone to death with a hammer recently. In case we are to refute the officer's instinct that he stumbled onto some bad hombres.

and she may have snapped as a result of someone being shot and killed right next to her? that does not excuse the hammer thing. but it's all hypothetical, just like your argument.