zombie wrote:what is the real talk? that some black people are criminals? that cops are sometimes capable of reacting in a way that makes sense in a situation?
The real talk is that the vast majority of people upset about the Rayshard killing are all racist people. Drunk idiot assaults two police officers, punches them in the face. Steals a teaser, runs away, turns back to fire at the cop's and gets shot. And people are upset because the cop was white and the dumb drunk driving fuck happened to be a black dude. If the dude was white, and the cop's were black, the narrative would be different. Unfortunately, black Conservatives are the only people with the voice of reason that racist liberals might actually listen to.
who are you trying to talk down to, or trying to make listen, by posting that to us?
Anyone who thinks the drunk idiot shouldn't have been shot.
real talk: rayshard was a scared drunk who got violent. it's understandable how the cops reacted in that situation. can we move on?
It’s only understandable in the current narrative of the police being a racist organization with the basic premise that executing black people is normal and not a surprising thing to do. In any and every other country this turn of events would be insane to behold and expected to never happen. I’m sure I brought it up before but in the US there was a month where police killed as many black people as British police killed anyone sine 1900. That’s one month vs 120 years.
maybe they shouldn't have tried to handcuff him. maybe they shouldn't have so easily lost control of a weapon. but i think they would have shot anyone, of any race, who wrestled a taser away from them, ran away and then circled back to use it against them.
i am not justifying when police abuse their power and authority, but this doesn't look like that on the surface. george floyd's murder does. the man who was shoved to the ground, among a row of police officers. shooting rubber bullets to make people stay in their homes during a curfew does. but this doesn't, again on the surface.
zombie wrote:what is the real talk? that some black people are criminals? that cops are sometimes capable of reacting in a way that makes sense in a situation?
The real talk is that the vast majority of people upset about the Rayshard killing are all racist people. Drunk idiot assaults two police officers, punches them in the face. Steals a teaser, runs away, turns back to fire at the cop's and gets shot. And people are upset because the cop was white and the dumb drunk driving fuck happened to be a black dude. If the dude was white, and the cop's were black, the narrative would be different. Unfortunately, black Conservatives are the only people with the voice of reason that racist liberals might actually listen to.
who are you trying to talk down to, or trying to make listen, by posting that to us?
Anyone who thinks the drunk idiot shouldn't have been shot.
real talk: rayshard was a scared drunk who got violent. it's understandable how the cops reacted in that situation. can we move on?
It’s only understandable in the current narrative of the police being a racist organization with the basic premise that executing black people is normal and not a surprising thing to do. In any and every other country this turn of events would be insane to behold and expected to never happen. I’m sure I brought it up before but in the US there was a month where police killed as many black people as British police killed anyone sine 1900. That’s one month vs 120 years.
maybe they shouldn't have tried to handcuff him. maybe they shouldn't have so easily lost control of a weapon. but i think they would have shot anyone, of any race, who wrestled a taser away from them, ran away and then circled back to use it against them.
i am not justifying when police abuse their power and authority, but this doesn't look like that on the surface. george floyd's murder does. the man who was shoved to the ground, among a row of police officers. shooting rubber bullets to make people stay in their homes during a curfew does. but this doesn't, again on the surface.
Even up to that point where he grabs a taser and runs there was no need. Taser is non-lethal. It could happily hit the officer and still not justify him being shot. The crime of being drunk is not punishable by death. Except for black people in the US.
showa58taro wrote:Even up to that point where he grabs a taser and runs there was no need. Taser is non-lethal. It could happily hit the officer and still not justify him being shot. The crime of being drunk is not punishable by death. Except for black people in the US.
no, being drunk was not the lethal crime, here. it has been, in other cases. but it wasn't here.
Minneapolis will be an easy conviction Atlanta will be an easy acquittal. One District attorney filed proper charges one filed ridiculous charges to appease the mob.
showa58taro wrote:Indeed. I assume this is meant to elicit something but it feels like it’s just trying to act racist for racists sake. Oh well.
As if any of us ever suggested murderers shouldn’t be held to account. That’s exactly what this conversation is all about, murderers not being held to account because they’re cops.
I'm sorry you guys didn't get your unsolicited NWA echo chamber. That's never been my bag. 9 out of 10 of my experiences with cops has been positive, uplifting even. I've witnessed good ones do their job, save lives, get the riff raff off the street. But I'm just me with my own experiences. I'm not stopping you disease spreading white knights, go save the world.
showa58taro wrote:Indeed. I assume this is meant to elicit something but it feels like it’s just trying to act racist for racists sake. Oh well.
As if any of us ever suggested murderers shouldn’t be held to account. That’s exactly what this conversation is all about, murderers not being held to account because they’re cops.
I'm sorry you guys didn't get your unsolicited NWA echo chamber. That's never been my bag. 9 out of 10 of my experiences with cops has been positive, uplifting even. I've witnessed good ones do their job, save lives, get the riff raff off the street. But I'm just me with my own experiences. I'm not stopping you disease spreading white knights, go save the world.
As you were self-aware enough to point out, that’s a very myopic view.
I’m good, who cares about anyone else. How do you pretend to care about your countrymen with a mentality like that? You might as well take a shit on the flag.
showa58taro wrote:Indeed. I assume this is meant to elicit something but it feels like it’s just trying to act racist for racists sake. Oh well.
As if any of us ever suggested murderers shouldn’t be held to account. That’s exactly what this conversation is all about, murderers not being held to account because they’re cops.
I'm sorry you guys didn't get your unsolicited NWA echo chamber. That's never been my bag. 9 out of 10 of my experiences with cops has been positive, uplifting even. I've witnessed good ones do their job, save lives, get the riff raff off the street. But I'm just me with my own experiences. I'm not stopping you disease spreading white knights, go save the world.
As you were self-aware enough to point out, that’s a very myopic view.
I’m good, who cares about anyone else. How do you pretend to care about your countrymen with a mentality like that? You might as well take a shit on the flag.
Countrymen. Lol, If I care about you, you'll know.
showa58taro wrote:Indeed. I assume this is meant to elicit something but it feels like it’s just trying to act racist for racists sake. Oh well.
As if any of us ever suggested murderers shouldn’t be held to account. That’s exactly what this conversation is all about, murderers not being held to account because they’re cops.
I'm sorry you guys didn't get your unsolicited NWA echo chamber. That's never been my bag. 9 out of 10 of my experiences with cops has been positive, uplifting even. I've witnessed good ones do their job, save lives, get the riff raff off the street. But I'm just me with my own experiences. I'm not stopping you disease spreading white knights, go save the world.
As you were self-aware enough to point out, that’s a very myopic view.
I’m good, who cares about anyone else. How do you pretend to care about your countrymen with a mentality like that? You might as well take a shit on the flag.
Countrymen. Lol, If I care about you, you'll know.
So why do you conservatives go on these platitudes about the flag and other symbolic crap? Is that what patriotism is? Empty gestures?
showa58taro wrote:Indeed. I assume this is meant to elicit something but it feels like it’s just trying to act racist for racists sake. Oh well.
As if any of us ever suggested murderers shouldn’t be held to account. That’s exactly what this conversation is all about, murderers not being held to account because they’re cops.
I'm sorry you guys didn't get your unsolicited NWA echo chamber. That's never been my bag. 9 out of 10 of my experiences with cops has been positive, uplifting even. I've witnessed good ones do their job, save lives, get the riff raff off the street. But I'm just me with my own experiences. I'm not stopping you disease spreading white knights, go save the world.
As you were self-aware enough to point out, that’s a very myopic view.
I’m good, who cares about anyone else. How do you pretend to care about your countrymen with a mentality like that? You might as well take a shit on the flag.
Countrymen. Lol, If I care about you, you'll know.
So why do you conservatives go on these platitudes about the flag and other symbolic crap? Is that what patriotism is? Empty gestures?
It's a difference in opinion of what caring for other people means.
For me, patriotism is caring about fellow citizens. Wanting to help make the experience in this country better for everyone. Giving to good causes when you’re able to. It has nothing to do with symbolic gestures, or excusing atrocity and ignoring problems that affect people under the guise of defending your country. That’s fake patriotism.
showa58taro wrote:Indeed. I assume this is meant to elicit something but it feels like it’s just trying to act racist for racists sake. Oh well.
As if any of us ever suggested murderers shouldn’t be held to account. That’s exactly what this conversation is all about, murderers not being held to account because they’re cops.
I'm sorry you guys didn't get your unsolicited NWA echo chamber. That's never been my bag. 9 out of 10 of my experiences with cops has been positive, uplifting even. I've witnessed good ones do their job, save lives, get the riff raff off the street. But I'm just me with my own experiences. I'm not stopping you disease spreading white knights, go save the world.
As you were self-aware enough to point out, that’s a very myopic view.
I’m good, who cares about anyone else. How do you pretend to care about your countrymen with a mentality like that? You might as well take a shit on the flag.
Countrymen. Lol, If I care about you, you'll know.
So why do you conservatives go on these platitudes about the flag and other symbolic crap? Is that what patriotism is? Empty gestures?
It's a difference in opinion of what caring for other people means.
If you don’t care about the people who live in this country, you don’t care about this country. Period.
Some people think condoning rioting is a form of caring for other people some people do not. Some people think hating cops is a form of caring for people other people do not. Some people think ignoring statistics is a form of caring for people other people do not. Some people think hypocrisy and double standards are a way of caring for people others do not. I myself find these things extremely counter productive to the greater good of all people
And that isn’t necessarily a bad thing, it’s philosophical. You can care about your life, your family and friends and carve out a perfect slice of life for yourself. But it isn’t the same thing as loving and caring about your country. You have to share some concern for the well being of people you’ll never meet to do that. The patriotic symbolism is nothing but empty gestures if your philosophy is “fuck everyone who I don’t know”.
So if the way you’re going to approach these things is “The police are fine because they treat me well and only I matter”, that’s fine. But just stay out of the way when people who actually care about making this country better for everyone fight against real atrocity. Your voice doesn’t need to be heard. You’ll be in your unaffected state regardless.
Tiggnutz wrote:Some people think condoning rioting is a form of caring for other people some people do not. Some people think hating cops is a form of caring for people other people do not. Some people think ignoring statistics is a form of caring for people other people do not. Some people think hypocrisy and double standards are a way of caring for people others do not. I myself find these things extremely counter productive to the greater good of all people
Nice collection of straw men there. It’s certainly easier to say someone is “condoning riots” than it is to engage with the idea that riots are a natural and unfortunate consequence of a failure to enforce the law justly, rather than something anyone roots for. It’s certainly easier to make this about “hating cops” than the actual attempts at reform being discussed to improve policing and rebuild some level of trust between them and the communities they serve. Its certainly easier to say people are “ignoring statistics” than to consider that those statistics don’t reveal what you think they do, and that an elementary understanding of math alone won’t get you the answers you’re looking for. It’s certainly easier to call everything “hypocrisy” or a “double standard” rather than try to consider the distinctions you brush over.
You can be lazy and frame every argument however you want so that you don’t have to engage in real conversation. And I can call it out for the bullshit it is.
Headhunter wrote:And that isn’t necessarily a bad thing, it’s philosophical. You can care about your life, your family and friends and carve out a perfect slice of life for yourself. But it isn’t the same thing as loving and caring about your country. You have to share some concern for the well being of people you’ll never meet to do that. The patriotic symbolism is nothing but empty gestures if your philosophy is “fuck everyone who I don’t know”.
So if the way you’re going to approach these things is “The police are fine because they treat me well and only I matter”, that’s fine. But just stay out of the way when people who actually care about making this country better for everyone fight against real atrocity. Your voice doesn’t need to be heard. You’ll be in your unaffected state regardless.
I think that view is a projection I firmly believe that the Floyd murder was an overwhelming front of disgust and acceptance of the need for change it's the aftershocks that followed that divided everyone
