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Jason wrote: We all have an open mind, but as far as "benefit of the doubt", we lean different ways and will always differ. I will always give a police officer the benefit of the doubt unless the evidence proves otherwise.

Jason wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Jason wrote:

showa58taro wrote:Hence why you can get Jason claiming the absolutely ludicrous statement that Trevor Noah, a mixed race South African who grew up in Apartheid South Africa, doesn't know about Racism.

Trevor Noah doesn't know shit about racism in America. He has lived here for five years and has used race-baiting as a springboard to making money and advancing his political career. He is a piece of shit. My mind won't change. I will have to bow out of this argument, because it is not one that I am willing to lose.

Do you think that it takes a decade for the US to start treating you like you're black or something? Strange man. I could get it if you didn't want to ascribe him the kind of insight I do given his experiences in both places, but the thing about Racism is that anyone can perceive it after any brief or long amount of time, as a basic fact of life. And you can't realy argue they don't know about it. They do, from their perspective. Noah's take on Racism isn't the same as Reginald D Hunter, Chris Rock, Eddie Murphy, or Barack Obama. They all have very different takes that they like to emphasize. But all of them are valid in my book. How that can be such a point of contention for you is very strange.

That being said, if you want to bow out of the conversation, that's cool. Snowflakes can relocate to the freezer at any point if they so wish.

Again, lying scumbag. Lowly piece of shit exploiting fake racism for money. My mind won't change. Out of respect to you I am willing to leave the argument completely because you respect the guy for some reason. But if you want to keep pressing me on Trevor Noah, I am going to keep telling you that he is human garbage.

showa58taro wrote:

Jason wrote:

showa58taro wrote:It's the beauty and the curse of HMF. Everyone gets an equal say and right to post and direct the conversation. So yeah, Head and I could maybe have a reasonable chat about it, but it wouldn't be long before it'd be Foo and Jason involved pointing out that we were discussing a non-problem. And then we're back to my original point, you can't have a discussion if there's no acceptance of a problem.

It applies both ways. Foo and I could have a reasonable chat, you and Head would come in and start bickering.

It's better to acknowledge that neither side is going to bend, then assume your side is always correct.

I don't think it does apply both ways. Certainly not with me anyway.

showa58taro wrote:

Jason wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Jason wrote:

showa58taro wrote:Hence why you can get Jason claiming the absolutely ludicrous statement that Trevor Noah, a mixed race South African who grew up in Apartheid South Africa, doesn't know about Racism.

Trevor Noah doesn't know shit about racism in America. He has lived here for five years and has used race-baiting as a springboard to making money and advancing his political career. He is a piece of shit. My mind won't change. I will have to bow out of this argument, because it is not one that I am willing to lose.

Do you think that it takes a decade for the US to start treating you like you're black or something? Strange man. I could get it if you didn't want to ascribe him the kind of insight I do given his experiences in both places, but the thing about Racism is that anyone can perceive it after any brief or long amount of time, as a basic fact of life. And you can't realy argue they don't know about it. They do, from their perspective. Noah's take on Racism isn't the same as Reginald D Hunter, Chris Rock, Eddie Murphy, or Barack Obama. They all have very different takes that they like to emphasize. But all of them are valid in my book. How that can be such a point of contention for you is very strange.

That being said, if you want to bow out of the conversation, that's cool. Snowflakes can relocate to the freezer at any point if they so wish.

Again, lying scumbag. Lowly piece of shit exploiting fake racism for money. My mind won't change. Out of respect to you I am willing to leave the argument completely because you respect the guy for some reason. But if you want to keep pressing me on Trevor Noah, I am going to keep telling you that he is human garbage.

I guess the question I'd pose on Trevor is whether you actually are familiar with his life story and the hardships he's experienced or not? If your opinion is based on that one video and the knowledge that he's the host of a show that you'd hate, then fair enough for you to act this way. If you actually know more about him, then I'm more confused by your insistence that he's somehow human garbage given what he's gone through in life.

Jason wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Jason wrote:

showa58taro wrote:It's the beauty and the curse of HMF. Everyone gets an equal say and right to post and direct the conversation. So yeah, Head and I could maybe have a reasonable chat about it, but it wouldn't be long before it'd be Foo and Jason involved pointing out that we were discussing a non-problem. And then we're back to my original point, you can't have a discussion if there's no acceptance of a problem.

It applies both ways. Foo and I could have a reasonable chat, you and Head would come in and start bickering.

It's better to acknowledge that neither side is going to bend, then assume your side is always correct.

I don't think it does apply both ways. Certainly not with me anyway.

That is a narrow-minded mentality.
"I am 100% correct on my viewpoints. Head and I can have a (Cenk voice) REASONABLE DISCUSSION. But if Foo and Jason are involved, nuh-uh."
It applies both ways. We disagree, and will likely never agree on the subject. It's that simple. Doesn't mean your way of thinking is right.

Jason wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Jason wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Jason wrote:

showa58taro wrote:Hence why you can get Jason claiming the absolutely ludicrous statement that Trevor Noah, a mixed race South African who grew up in Apartheid South Africa, doesn't know about Racism.

Trevor Noah doesn't know shit about racism in America. He has lived here for five years and has used race-baiting as a springboard to making money and advancing his political career. He is a piece of shit. My mind won't change. I will have to bow out of this argument, because it is not one that I am willing to lose.

Do you think that it takes a decade for the US to start treating you like you're black or something? Strange man. I could get it if you didn't want to ascribe him the kind of insight I do given his experiences in both places, but the thing about Racism is that anyone can perceive it after any brief or long amount of time, as a basic fact of life. And you can't realy argue they don't know about it. They do, from their perspective. Noah's take on Racism isn't the same as Reginald D Hunter, Chris Rock, Eddie Murphy, or Barack Obama. They all have very different takes that they like to emphasize. But all of them are valid in my book. How that can be such a point of contention for you is very strange.

That being said, if you want to bow out of the conversation, that's cool. Snowflakes can relocate to the freezer at any point if they so wish.

Again, lying scumbag. Lowly piece of shit exploiting fake racism for money. My mind won't change. Out of respect to you I am willing to leave the argument completely because you respect the guy for some reason. But if you want to keep pressing me on Trevor Noah, I am going to keep telling you that he is human garbage.

I guess the question I'd pose on Trevor is whether you actually are familiar with his life story and the hardships he's experienced or not? If your opinion is based on that one video and the knowledge that he's the host of a show that you'd hate, then fair enough for you to act this way. If you actually know more about him, then I'm more confused by your insistence that he's somehow human garbage given what he's gone through in life.

I don't need to know his life story to know he's a lying scumbag. I have seen much more from him than just that one video. He has an agenda. He's making cold hard cash for exploiting racism, and he is a flat out liar. Complete and total scumbag. Nothing he went through (or pretends to have gone through) in life will ever change my opinion of him. He's shown who he truly is.

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:But at this point Seb you also gotta understand that anything regarding race becomes an automatic red flag here and no conversation can move forward once it's on the table. If race is involved in whatever you want to talk about, you might as well not say anything because your argument will be diminished, insulted, disregarded. The idea genuinely upsets some here to the point where it can't even be acknowledged at any point, ever. There's never going to be any meaningful conversation on race relations in America on this site ever. There's a lot of other things we can have interesting discussions on, that will never ever be one of them.

i guess that depends on you who you have it with, and if you're willing to not be derailed by some others.

Spin it however you want. No conversation of that nature will ever be productive here.

Foo wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:But at this point Seb you also gotta understand that anything regarding race becomes an automatic red flag here and no conversation can move forward once it's on the table. If race is involved in whatever you want to talk about, you might as well not say anything because your argument will be diminished, insulted, disregarded. The idea genuinely upsets some here to the point where it can't even be acknowledged at any point, ever. There's never going to be any meaningful conversation on race relations in America on this site ever. There's a lot of other things we can have interesting discussions on, that will never ever be one of them.

i guess that depends on you who you have it with, and if you're willing to not be derailed by some others.

Spin it however you want. No conversation of that nature will ever be productive here.

"Productive"

Is this code for something?

zombie wrote:is there a way for a celebrity or public figure to share views or experience of racism (whether it's in america or not) without the claim coming up that they are fabricating / exploiting it for some sort of personal gain?

Headhunter wrote:

Foo wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:But at this point Seb you also gotta understand that anything regarding race becomes an automatic red flag here and no conversation can move forward once it's on the table. If race is involved in whatever you want to talk about, you might as well not say anything because your argument will be diminished, insulted, disregarded. The idea genuinely upsets some here to the point where it can't even be acknowledged at any point, ever. There's never going to be any meaningful conversation on race relations in America on this site ever. There's a lot of other things we can have interesting discussions on, that will never ever be one of them.

i guess that depends on you who you have it with, and if you're willing to not be derailed by some others.

Spin it however you want. No conversation of that nature will ever be productive here.

"Productive"

Is this code for something?

A baseline for productive discussion would be acknowledging its existence in American society, yeah. No code.

Foo wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Foo wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:But at this point Seb you also gotta understand that anything regarding race becomes an automatic red flag here and no conversation can move forward once it's on the table. If race is involved in whatever you want to talk about, you might as well not say anything because your argument will be diminished, insulted, disregarded. The idea genuinely upsets some here to the point where it can't even be acknowledged at any point, ever. There's never going to be any meaningful conversation on race relations in America on this site ever. There's a lot of other things we can have interesting discussions on, that will never ever be one of them.

i guess that depends on you who you have it with, and if you're willing to not be derailed by some others.

Spin it however you want. No conversation of that nature will ever be productive here.

"Productive"

Is this code for something?

A baseline for productive discussion would be acknowledging its existence in American society, yeah. No code.

Usually it means, "Agree with my viewpoint and then have a circle jerk where we praise how enlightened we all are.".

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Foo wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:But at this point Seb you also gotta understand that anything regarding race becomes an automatic red flag here and no conversation can move forward once it's on the table. If race is involved in whatever you want to talk about, you might as well not say anything because your argument will be diminished, insulted, disregarded. The idea genuinely upsets some here to the point where it can't even be acknowledged at any point, ever. There's never going to be any meaningful conversation on race relations in America on this site ever. There's a lot of other things we can have interesting discussions on, that will never ever be one of them.

i guess that depends on you who you have it with, and if you're willing to not be derailed by some others.

Spin it however you want. No conversation of that nature will ever be productive here.

"Productive"

Is this code for something?

A baseline for productive discussion would be acknowledging its existence in American society, yeah. No code.

Usually it means, "Agree with my viewpoint and then have a circle jerk where we praise how enlightened we all are.".

i'm sorry that that has been your experience, but that's not what it should be. productive, to me, means engaging each other, in an openminded discussion. at least in this context.

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Foo wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:But at this point Seb you also gotta understand that anything regarding race becomes an automatic red flag here and no conversation can move forward once it's on the table. If race is involved in whatever you want to talk about, you might as well not say anything because your argument will be diminished, insulted, disregarded. The idea genuinely upsets some here to the point where it can't even be acknowledged at any point, ever. There's never going to be any meaningful conversation on race relations in America on this site ever. There's a lot of other things we can have interesting discussions on, that will never ever be one of them.

i guess that depends on you who you have it with, and if you're willing to not be derailed by some others.

Spin it however you want. No conversation of that nature will ever be productive here.

"Productive"

Is this code for something?

A baseline for productive discussion would be acknowledging its existence in American society, yeah. No code.

Usually it means, "Agree with my viewpoint and then have a circle jerk where we praise how enlightened we all are.".

i'm sorry that that has been your experience, but that's not what it should be. productive, to me, means engaging each other, in an openminded discussion. at least in this context.

Would you say you are open minded about Jason's viewpoints? How has he influenced you politically?