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Foo wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Foo wrote:

showa58taro wrote:The minimum wage is about protecting the worker who can't even get close to their own business. If you're lucky enough to be in a position to have or to start a business then it's fair to build in that you pay workers a fair wage that enables them to meet their obligations. The current level is too low to do that. Simple as. That's not against businesses. Businesses should be operating in a way that is ok for their staff as well as their customers. Which all your gripes counteract.

What about opportunity for both parties? The person who is unproven, especially as minimum wage rises, is shut out. McDonalds knows what it can pay and what a specific task entails. Your local burger place may not know because they are starting out.

Most minimum wage employees are unproven, and the main value of that job is experience, not supporting a family. Raising minimum wage denies opportunity. Same goes for laws that make hiring and firing difficult.

The rise of the minimum wage has no bearing on the need for existing work.

You don't think the cost of labor is part of the hiring decision? It is.

Hiring implies new jobs.

showa58taro wrote:

Foo wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Foo wrote:

showa58taro wrote:The minimum wage is about protecting the worker who can't even get close to their own business. If you're lucky enough to be in a position to have or to start a business then it's fair to build in that you pay workers a fair wage that enables them to meet their obligations. The current level is too low to do that. Simple as. That's not against businesses. Businesses should be operating in a way that is ok for their staff as well as their customers. Which all your gripes counteract.

What about opportunity for both parties? The person who is unproven, especially as minimum wage rises, is shut out. McDonalds knows what it can pay and what a specific task entails. Your local burger place may not know because they are starting out.

Most minimum wage employees are unproven, and the main value of that job is experience, not supporting a family. Raising minimum wage denies opportunity. Same goes for laws that make hiring and firing difficult.

The rise of the minimum wage has no bearing on the need for existing work.

You don't think the cost of labor is part of the hiring decision? It is.

Hiring implies new jobs.

Yes. Every single day small businesses struggle with whether or not to add labor. Is the cost worth the productivity increase? Every single day.

any such regulations should be first to benefit and protect customers, workers, and small business. most often, though, it's to the benefit of whoever has the deepest pockets and is the most greedy.

bail outs do not happen for small business. generally it's the biggest guys that get that treatment.

zombie wrote:any such regulations should be first to benefit and protect customers, workers, and small business. most often, though, it's to the benefit of whoever has the deepest pockets and is the most greedy.

bail outs do not happen for small business. generally it's the biggest guys that get that treatment.

Nothing is more greedy than the person who doesn't work and allows others to take care of them. Money acquisition is not greed. Selfish behavior is greed. So yeah, an unemployed person can be greedier than a billionaire.

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:any such regulations should be first to benefit and protect customers, workers, and small business. most often, though, it's to the benefit of whoever has the deepest pockets and is the most greedy.

bail outs do not happen for small business. generally it's the biggest guys that get that treatment.

Nothing is more greedy than the person who doesn't work and allows others to take care of them. Money acquisition is not greed. Selfish behavior is greed. So yeah, an unemployed person can be greedier than a billionaire.

money acquisition can be done through greedy behavior. every time i mention greed, you get defensive.

if there is a plot to destroy small business, as you state with this topic, is it greed or is it just money acquisition?

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:any such regulations should be first to benefit and protect customers, workers, and small business. most often, though, it's to the benefit of whoever has the deepest pockets and is the most greedy.

bail outs do not happen for small business. generally it's the biggest guys that get that treatment.

Nothing is more greedy than the person who doesn't work and allows others to take care of them. Money acquisition is not greed. Selfish behavior is greed. So yeah, an unemployed person can be greedier than a billionaire.

money acquisition can be done through greedy behavior. every time i mention greed, you get defensive.

if there is a plot to destroy small business, as you state with this topic, is it greed or is it just money acquisition?

I think it is multiple factors, including ignorance. I bring up the hot dog thing for a couple reasons. I am in the process of adding something similar to my business, and even being established, it is a pain in the ass. I see how difficult it would be for someone without the resources, and it makes me sad because it is such an entry level food business that almost anyone could operate.

We should be reducing regulations to help people grow businesses that allow them to become independent first, and then help others with jobs. This utter bullshit about protecting the public is the greatest lie ever told. You are far more likely to have a lot of people get seriously sick by eating at chipotle or red lobster than eating a boiled hot dog. The whole thing is a farce for control, and people buying into it are enablers.

I get defensive because I know a lot of people who worked so hard and made the sacrifices for their success. On the flip side, I see people who half ass everything and then act like the hard worker is somehow greedy/lucky/etc. for what they have created.

People generally acquire a lot of money because they provide a good or service that people need or want. If a lot of people need or want their service and they provide it, they get wealthy.

On the base level, how is that greedier than an unemployed person living off of others?

Foo wrote:
I think it is multiple factors, including ignorance. I bring up the hot dog thing for a couple reasons. I am in the process of adding something similar to my business, and even being established, it is a pain in the ass. I see how difficult it would be for someone without the resources, and it makes me sad because it is such an entry level food business that almost anyone could operate.

We should be reducing regulations to help people grow businesses that allow them to become independent first, and then help others with jobs. This utter bullshit about protecting the public is the greatest lie ever told. You are far more likely to have a lot of people get seriously sick by eating at chipotle or red lobster than eating a boiled hot dog. The whole thing is a farce for control, and people buying into it are enablers.

I get defensive because I know a lot of people who worked so hard and made the sacrifices for their success. On the flip side, I see people who half ass everything and then act like the hard worker is somehow greedy/lucky/etc. for what they have created.

you think that the politicians and lawmakers are "destroying small business" out of ignorance?

you should help people to find jobs, first. jobs include starting up a small business. and customers should be protected too, by any regulations. i didn't say to protect them specifically from small business owners. you want to push that because it suits your bias. you don't actually wanna listen or think about what i'm saying. you just want me to be in the wrong.

working hard for your success should not be equated to greed. it's two different things. though, often, greedy people do work hard to succeed. there is a difference between a hard worker and pirate or conman who also works hard.

Foo wrote:People generally acquire a lot of money because they provide a good or service that people need or want. If a lot of people need or want their service and they provide it, they get wealthy.

On the base level, how is that greedier than an unemployed person living off of others?

you're being defensive again.

working hard and finding success is not greed, in itself. how you go about finding that success could be done in a greedy or selfish way. and "could" does not mean "is". why do i have to make this distinction....

a person who has no interest to find work, or to help around the house, and is just living off of others is more selfish, absolutely, than a person who is working hard to find success, given that that person is not being selfish or greedy in the pursuit of their success.

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:
I think it is multiple factors, including ignorance. I bring up the hot dog thing for a couple reasons. I am in the process of adding something similar to my business, and even being established, it is a pain in the ass. I see how difficult it would be for someone without the resources, and it makes me sad because it is such an entry level food business that almost anyone could operate.

We should be reducing regulations to help people grow businesses that allow them to become independent first, and then help others with jobs. This utter bullshit about protecting the public is the greatest lie ever told. You are far more likely to have a lot of people get seriously sick by eating at chipotle or red lobster than eating a boiled hot dog. The whole thing is a farce for control, and people buying into it are enablers.

I get defensive because I know a lot of people who worked so hard and made the sacrifices for their success. On the flip side, I see people who half ass everything and then act like the hard worker is somehow greedy/lucky/etc. for what they have created.

you think that the politicians and lawmakers are "destroying small business" out of ignorance?

you should help people to find jobs, first. jobs include starting up a small business. and customers should be protected too, by any regulations. i didn't say to protect them specifically from small business owners. you want to push that because it suits your bias. you don't actually wanna listen or think about what i'm saying. you just want me to be in the wrong.

working hard for your success should not be equated to greed. it's two different things. though, often, greedy people do work hard to succeed. there is a difference between a hard worker and pirate or conman who also works hard.

How many politicians have you met? Did they seem particularly intelligent to you? I am giving them the benefit of the doubt that they act of if ignorance rather than malice.

What are these protections that you think a customer needs from someone selling hot dogs, potato chips, and soda?

What is greedier, the company that comes to town and lowers their prices way below the competition, or the consumers who buy the stuff? Who is greedier, the movie star making $50 million per year or the person watching a pirated copy of the movie he starred in?

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:People generally acquire a lot of money because they provide a good or service that people need or want. If a lot of people need or want their service and they provide it, they get wealthy.

On the base level, how is that greedier than an unemployed person living off of others?

you're being defensive again.

working hard and finding success is not greed, in itself. how you go about finding that success could be done in a greedy or selfish way. and "could" does not mean "is". why do i have to make this distinction....

a person who has no interest to find work, or to help around the house, and is just living off of others is more selfish, absolutely, than a person who is working hard to find success, given that that person is not being selfish or greedy in the pursuit of their success.

So if greed can be found at any level of success, why does society always point to successful people as being greedy and not those living off of society on unemployment or disability?

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:
I think it is multiple factors, including ignorance. I bring up the hot dog thing for a couple reasons. I am in the process of adding something similar to my business, and even being established, it is a pain in the ass. I see how difficult it would be for someone without the resources, and it makes me sad because it is such an entry level food business that almost anyone could operate.

We should be reducing regulations to help people grow businesses that allow them to become independent first, and then help others with jobs. This utter bullshit about protecting the public is the greatest lie ever told. You are far more likely to have a lot of people get seriously sick by eating at chipotle or red lobster than eating a boiled hot dog. The whole thing is a farce for control, and people buying into it are enablers.

I get defensive because I know a lot of people who worked so hard and made the sacrifices for their success. On the flip side, I see people who half ass everything and then act like the hard worker is somehow greedy/lucky/etc. for what they have created.

you think that the politicians and lawmakers are "destroying small business" out of ignorance?

you should help people to find jobs, first. jobs include starting up a small business. and customers should be protected too, by any regulations. i didn't say to protect them specifically from small business owners. you want to push that because it suits your bias. you don't actually wanna listen or think about what i'm saying. you just want me to be in the wrong.

working hard for your success should not be equated to greed. it's two different things. though, often, greedy people do work hard to succeed. there is a difference between a hard worker and pirate or conman who also works hard.

How many politicians have you met? Did they seem particularly intelligent to you? I am giving them the benefit of the doubt that they act of if ignorance rather than malice.

What are these protections that you think a customer needs from someone selling hot dogs, potato chips, and soda?

What is greedier, the company that comes to town and lowers their prices way below the competition, or the consumers who buy the stuff? Who is greedier, the movie star making $50 million per year or the person watching a pirated copy of the movie he starred in?

regulations regarding the quality of the food, and not cutting corners to make it cheaper and potentially unhealthy for the customer is one such example. probably the most important as well.

i haven't met any politicians. but you live in around d.c. and have a business in the area. you're much more likely to meet a couple along the way, than i am. you've equated success to intelligence, over and over, so in that way... i would have to guess that there are a lot of intelligent politicians.

why would the consumer paying less for a hotdog be greedy? unless they stole the hot dog or something, i don't see how it's greedy. i don't think competition, in itself, is greedy either. if you can out compete other businesses in the area, or find a niche that they didn't, or weren't willing to work for, good for you. that's not greed, in itself. and i've said this before.

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:People generally acquire a lot of money because they provide a good or service that people need or want. If a lot of people need or want their service and they provide it, they get wealthy.

On the base level, how is that greedier than an unemployed person living off of others?

you're being defensive again.

working hard and finding success is not greed, in itself. how you go about finding that success could be done in a greedy or selfish way. and "could" does not mean "is". why do i have to make this distinction....

a person who has no interest to find work, or to help around the house, and is just living off of others is more selfish, absolutely, than a person who is working hard to find success, given that that person is not being selfish or greedy in the pursuit of their success.

So if greed can be found at any level of success, why does society always point to successful people as being greedy and not those living off of society on unemployment or disability?

does society point to every successful person and call them greedy? if so, i don't know... i'm not society. i can only tell you the way that i feel about this. society definitely demonizes people who aren't working.

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:
I think it is multiple factors, including ignorance. I bring up the hot dog thing for a couple reasons. I am in the process of adding something similar to my business, and even being established, it is a pain in the ass. I see how difficult it would be for someone without the resources, and it makes me sad because it is such an entry level food business that almost anyone could operate.

We should be reducing regulations to help people grow businesses that allow them to become independent first, and then help others with jobs. This utter bullshit about protecting the public is the greatest lie ever told. You are far more likely to have a lot of people get seriously sick by eating at chipotle or red lobster than eating a boiled hot dog. The whole thing is a farce for control, and people buying into it are enablers.

I get defensive because I know a lot of people who worked so hard and made the sacrifices for their success. On the flip side, I see people who half ass everything and then act like the hard worker is somehow greedy/lucky/etc. for what they have created.

you think that the politicians and lawmakers are "destroying small business" out of ignorance?

you should help people to find jobs, first. jobs include starting up a small business. and customers should be protected too, by any regulations. i didn't say to protect them specifically from small business owners. you want to push that because it suits your bias. you don't actually wanna listen or think about what i'm saying. you just want me to be in the wrong.

working hard for your success should not be equated to greed. it's two different things. though, often, greedy people do work hard to succeed. there is a difference between a hard worker and pirate or conman who also works hard.

How many politicians have you met? Did they seem particularly intelligent to you? I am giving them the benefit of the doubt that they act of if ignorance rather than malice.

What are these protections that you think a customer needs from someone selling hot dogs, potato chips, and soda?

What is greedier, the company that comes to town and lowers their prices way below the competition, or the consumers who buy the stuff? Who is greedier, the movie star making $50 million per year or the person watching a pirated copy of the movie he starred in?

regulations regarding the quality of the food, and not cutting corners to make it cheaper and potentially unhealthy for the customer is one such example. probably the most important as well.

i haven't met any politicians. but you live in around d.c. and have a business in the area. you're much more likely to meet a couple along the way, than i am. you've equated success to intelligence, over and over, so in that way... i would have to guess that there are a lot of intelligent politicians.

why would the consumer paying less for a hotdog be greedy? unless they stole the hot dog or something, i don't see how it's greedy. i don't think competition, in itself, is greedy either. if you can out compete other businesses in the area, or find a niche that they didn't, or weren't willing to work for, good for you. that's not greed, in itself. and i've said this before.

Unfortunately yes, I have met them at all levels now. I have been to meetings with mayors and county commissioners and had senators and governors out to the truck. There are all kinds.

Ok, so what exactly are these regulations needed to protect the public from a guy selling hot dogs?

So what are some example of corporate greed?

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:People generally acquire a lot of money because they provide a good or service that people need or want. If a lot of people need or want their service and they provide it, they get wealthy.

On the base level, how is that greedier than an unemployed person living off of others?

you're being defensive again.

working hard and finding success is not greed, in itself. how you go about finding that success could be done in a greedy or selfish way. and "could" does not mean "is". why do i have to make this distinction....

a person who has no interest to find work, or to help around the house, and is just living off of others is more selfish, absolutely, than a person who is working hard to find success, given that that person is not being selfish or greedy in the pursuit of their success.

So if greed can be found at any level of success, why does society always point to successful people as being greedy and not those living off of society on unemployment or disability?

does society point to every successful person and call them greedy? if so, i don't know... i'm not society. i can only tell you the way that i feel about this. society definitely demonizes people who aren't working.

Liberals tend to do just that. Name a wealthy conservative that has not been called greedy.

Foo wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Foo wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Foo wrote:

showa58taro wrote:The minimum wage is about protecting the worker who can't even get close to their own business. If you're lucky enough to be in a position to have or to start a business then it's fair to build in that you pay workers a fair wage that enables them to meet their obligations. The current level is too low to do that. Simple as. That's not against businesses. Businesses should be operating in a way that is ok for their staff as well as their customers. Which all your gripes counteract.

What about opportunity for both parties? The person who is unproven, especially as minimum wage rises, is shut out. McDonalds knows what it can pay and what a specific task entails. Your local burger place may not know because they are starting out.

Most minimum wage employees are unproven, and the main value of that job is experience, not supporting a family. Raising minimum wage denies opportunity. Same goes for laws that make hiring and firing difficult.

The rise of the minimum wage has no bearing on the need for existing work.

You don't think the cost of labor is part of the hiring decision? It is.

Hiring implies new jobs.

Yes. Every single day small businesses struggle with whether or not to add labor. Is the cost worth the productivity increase? Every single day.

Sure. But that's neither here nor there.

Foo wrote:
Unfortunately yes, I have met them at all levels now. I have been to meetings with mayors and county commissioners and had senators and governors out to the truck. There are all kinds.

Ok, so what exactly are these regulations needed to protect the public from a guy selling hot dogs?

So what are some example of corporate greed?

did they seem unintelligent or ignorant?

are you asking me to cite specific laws or something? if the guy selling hot dogs is being decent and not cutting corners at the expense of customers buying / eating the hotdogs, then i don't take issue, regarding what i've been talking about.

one example of corporate greed is adding non-food substances to food (like sawdust is an easy example that i've heard used to be done in the past) to stretch what you have and make it more profitable at the expense of your customers.

coming in to a company and then forcing the original owners out is an example of corporate greed. '

finding politicians and lawmakers that will help your company to be the only kind of your type allowed to operate in that area is one more example.

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:People generally acquire a lot of money because they provide a good or service that people need or want. If a lot of people need or want their service and they provide it, they get wealthy.

On the base level, how is that greedier than an unemployed person living off of others?

you're being defensive again.

working hard and finding success is not greed, in itself. how you go about finding that success could be done in a greedy or selfish way. and "could" does not mean "is". why do i have to make this distinction....

a person who has no interest to find work, or to help around the house, and is just living off of others is more selfish, absolutely, than a person who is working hard to find success, given that that person is not being selfish or greedy in the pursuit of their success.

So if greed can be found at any level of success, why does society always point to successful people as being greedy and not those living off of society on unemployment or disability?

does society point to every successful person and call them greedy? if so, i don't know... i'm not society. i can only tell you the way that i feel about this. society definitely demonizes people who aren't working.

Liberals tend to do just that. Name a wealthy conservative that has not been called greedy.

i don't know. are there any public figures that you consider to be greedy at all?

zombie wrote:
i don't know. are there any public figures that you consider to be greedy at all?

Interesting question, zombs. With Hurricane Harvey just roaring, Kevin Hart called out a lot of celebs, shaming them to give. The Rock responded by giving 25k, is he greedy because we know he could give much more? Or is Kevin Hart for putting people on blast?

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:
Unfortunately yes, I have met them at all levels now. I have been to meetings with mayors and county commissioners and had senators and governors out to the truck. There are all kinds.

Ok, so what exactly are these regulations needed to protect the public from a guy selling hot dogs?

So what are some example of corporate greed?

did they seem unintelligent or ignorant?

are you asking me to cite specific laws or something? if the guy selling hot dogs is being decent and not cutting corners at the expense of customers buying / eating the hotdogs, then i don't take issue, regarding what i've been talking about.

one example of corporate greed is adding non-food substances to food (like sawdust is an easy example that i've heard used to be done in the past) to stretch what you have and make it more profitable at the expense of your customers.

coming in to a company and then forcing the original owners out is an example of corporate greed. '

finding politicians and lawmakers that will help your company to be the only kind of your type allowed to operate in that area is one more example.

Ok, your sawdust thing reminds me of a conversation I was having with a crab cake vendor this weekend. Basically, I praised him for selling crab cakes and he asked me why we never do and I told him it is because I like to have certain price points and it is difficult to do with crab. You have to use fillers and alter the portion sizes and such to not lose money, and you have to really stay sharp because crab prices change so much and so frequently. He was then lamenting about his poor social media reviews, where people were expecting a $25 crab cake when he was only charging $14 or something like that.

I guess my point is that sometimes inferior quality exists due to consumer demand. For instance, you can pay $2 wholesale for a beautiful premium quality large beef hot dog, or you can pay .18 for a hot dog made with chicken peckers. The chicken pecker dog exists because there is a demand for cheap products. Is Chef Boyardee greedy for using soy proteins, guar gum, protein isolates, mechanically separated chicken, etc. in their products to keep the price low?

How do you force original owners out of a company? Can I be forced out of Crave?