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zombie wrote:

Jason wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Jason wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Jason wrote:

Headhunter wrote:We already know that poverty creates criminals. This has been true forever.

More white people are in poverty than black people. They're not murdering at unbelievable rates.

Interesting that you would use the rate in one sentence, but the raw number in the other.

If the murder numbers matched, white people will have killed everyone pretty much. Interesting that white people committing far less crime and murder makes you so uncomfortable.

Hint: You're doing basic statistics wrong. The relevant figure you're looking for is poverty rate, the total number is irrelevant to the point you're trying to make.

Hint: Poverty doesn't trigger something in a black person's brain to commit murder.

so you're arguing that being black predisposes people to commit murder?

I'm arguing that white people aren't to blame for everything wrong in society. Black people need to quit murdering each other at alarming rates.

Lmao that sidestep when the answer is obviously yes.

Jason wrote:
I'm arguing that white people aren't to blame for everything wrong in society. Black people need to quit murdering each other at alarming rates.

so we shifted to a more reasonable argument, in the first sentence at least.

Except white peoples sre responsible for increased black crime both directly and indirectly.

Headhunter wrote:Lmao that sidestep when the answer is obviously yes.

Thought you left. Or are you gonna cheer from the sidelines now?

Jason wrote: Hint: Poverty doesn't trigger something in a black person's brain to commit murder.

WTF

WELL

THATS

FANTASTIC.

showa58taro wrote:Except white peoples sre responsible for increased black crime both directly and indirectly.

there are a lot of factors that play into those rates. as long as you don't take all whites to be oppressors. and don't take all blacks to be criminals, then we're on a right track.

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:Except white peoples sre responsible for increased black crime both directly and indirectly.

there are a lot of factors that play into those rates. as long as you don't take all whites to be oppressors. and don't take all blacks to be criminals, then we're on a right track.

Nothing to do with oppression or individual white people.

I'm from a city that I believe is at or around 80% black so of course my situation is different from someone who lives in say an 80% white area when I get pissed about constant death and crime and carnage it's not about other white people dying. I agree whites are the root cause of the situation but how long can that be a counter argument to black on black crime. I believe last night 12 people were shot including 2 quadruple shootings at least 4 dead this is a daily occurrence. Why is it not covered by every news station in America. There should be news media here from other countries it's so fucked up but nope.

i don't think it's helpful to use "but whites" as a counter. but more as an attempt to understand the issue and work from there toward a solution if you can.

zombie wrote:i don't think it's helpful to use "but whites" as a counter. but more as an attempt to understand the issue and work from there toward a solution if you can.

Sometimes you gotta stop the bleeding before anything else no sense telling someone why they are bleeding out before you stop the blood loss.

Tiggnutz wrote:

zombie wrote:i don't think it's helpful to use "but whites" as a counter. but more as an attempt to understand the issue and work from there toward a solution if you can.

Sometimes you gotta stop the bleeding before anything else no sense telling someone why they are bleeding out before you stop the blood loss.

it's more like expecting to stop the bleeding while someone is still taking shots at him. so just a "can you stop being in the way of these bullets?" kind of thing.

zombie wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:

zombie wrote:i don't think it's helpful to use "but whites" as a counter. but more as an attempt to understand the issue and work from there toward a solution if you can.

Sometimes you gotta stop the bleeding before anything else no sense telling someone why they are bleeding out before you stop the blood loss.

it's more like expecting to stop the bleeding while someone is still taking shots at him. so just a "can you stop being in the way of these bullets?" kind of thing.

I was referring more to taking drastic steps to stop the carnage than while there is a semblance of order addressing root problems. It has to be in that order

A private company wanted to give constant air surveillance in the worst areas Baltimore said no the governor wanted increased mandatory sentencing for repeat violent offenders Maryland house and Senate said no. Lots of people want judges who constantly refuse real sentences for repeat offenders to be public knowledge but that was shot down. So nothing ever changes

Tiggnutz wrote:A private company wanted to give constant air surveillance in the worst areas Baltimore said no the governor wanted increased mandatory sentencing for repeat violent offenders Maryland house and Senate said no. Lots of people want judges who constantly refuse real sentences for repeat offenders to be public knowledge but that was shot down. So nothing ever changes

looks like a powerful connected someone (or a group) is benefiting in some way from the violence and so works against it being stopped or slowed?

You guys always make the mistake of personalizing the issue instead of viewing it through a societal lens. "White people" does not, and never has, meant "you, Zombie/Tigg/Jason, you specifically". The segregated structure of American cities with money and industry flowing out of the most heavily African-American areas, is absolutely a consequence of behavioral patterns of white people in general for generations. That's an uncomfortable reality in America. When black people move in somewhere, white people move out and the economy dies. Then you build a highway through it so nobody ever has to deal with "that part" of the city.

Headhunter wrote:You guys always make the mistake of personalizing the issue instead of viewing it through a societal lens. "White people" does not, and never has, meant "you, Zombie/Tigg/Jason, you specifically". The segregated structure of American cities with money and industry flowing out of the most heavily African-American areas, is absolutely a consequence of behavioral patterns of white people in general for generations. That's an uncomfortable reality in America. When black people move in somewhere, white people move out and the economy dies. Then you build a highway through it so nobody ever has to deal with "that part" of the city.

i think this is two different issues. you can acknowledge that a problem exists, relating to bias or prejudice. and you can also acknowledge blame does often fall to those not connected to that problem, based on common traits.

Headhunter wrote:You guys always make the mistake of personalizing the issue instead of viewing it through a societal lens. "White people" does not, and never has, meant "you, Zombie/Tigg/Jason, you specifically". The segregated structure of American cities with money and industry flowing out of the most heavily African-American areas, is absolutely a consequence of behavioral patterns of white people in general for generations. That's an uncomfortable reality in America. When black people move in somewhere, white people move out and the economy dies. Then you build a highway through it so nobody ever has to deal with "that part" of the city.

Not really a fair statement in my opinion people do what's best for their families and also property value. Black people who have the means also leave if they can it's a crime thing not a race thing in my opinion might be different in other places

Tiggnutz wrote:

Headhunter wrote:You guys always make the mistake of personalizing the issue instead of viewing it through a societal lens. "White people" does not, and never has, meant "you, Zombie/Tigg/Jason, you specifically". The segregated structure of American cities with money and industry flowing out of the most heavily African-American areas, is absolutely a consequence of behavioral patterns of white people in general for generations. That's an uncomfortable reality in America. When black people move in somewhere, white people move out and the economy dies. Then you build a highway through it so nobody ever has to deal with "that part" of the city.

Not really a fair statement in my opinion people do what's best for their families and also property value. Black people who have the means also leave if they can it's a crime thing not a race thing in my opinion might be different in other places

It's not a judgment, it's a reality.

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:You guys always make the mistake of personalizing the issue instead of viewing it through a societal lens. "White people" does not, and never has, meant "you, Zombie/Tigg/Jason, you specifically". The segregated structure of American cities with money and industry flowing out of the most heavily African-American areas, is absolutely a consequence of behavioral patterns of white people in general for generations. That's an uncomfortable reality in America. When black people move in somewhere, white people move out and the economy dies. Then you build a highway through it so nobody ever has to deal with "that part" of the city.

i think this is two different issues. you can acknowledge that a problem exists, relating to bias or prejudice. and you can also acknowledge blame does often fall to those not connected to that problem, based on common traits.

Does it really though? I have no doubt people take it that way, because we're wired to believe everything is about us.