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Tiggnutz wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Jason wrote:Seb, let's say you're correct about David Duke applauding Trump. Why are you using that as a springboard to slam Trump? Who gives a fuck what David Duke has to say? Trump publicly called David Duke a piece of shit for the last 20 fucking years. Whatever Duke says is complete horse shit, but you will preach his words so long as he is praising someone you try so hard to hate.

Because I think Duke is right this time, sadly. I think Trump has done more to advance the White Supremacosts cause and ease into the mainstream than any president before. It was easy to just denounce the racists as racists and call it a day. Instead he called those fighting racists equal to the racists themselves and created an equivalence between the two groups. The most telling thing he said in that conference was something about "white supremacists or neo Nazis or whatever you guys are calling them" because that basically dismisses it as not being a group but rather a phony label put there by the fake News. Which is how they now get to spin it. They can say there was one bad guy who took it too far by driving his car into people. But the rest of the group, are fine people.

When everyone rejects the fringe left and right than we can start to get somewhere. If you don't treat both equally you embolden one or the other. It's just that simple

Tiggnutz wrote:Whatever your motive for attacking someone else doesn't and shouldn't matter. If you punch someone in the face because you hate blacks or you punch someone in the face because they like who was voted president or wanted to see a conservative speaker talk it's equally wrong and disgusting.

showa58taro wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:Whatever your motive for attacking someone else doesn't and shouldn't matter. If you punch someone in the face because you hate blacks or you punch someone in the face because they like who was voted president or wanted to see a conservative speaker talk it's equally wrong and disgusting.

I don't understand your reply

So all your soldiers are criminals?

zombie wrote:i'll never understand how supremacist bigots will take denouncing of supremacist bigots as a win. but they drove a car into a crowd of people. they killed a girl. and there was no remorse for it, after the fact. i hope that everyone who is even a little bit decent turns on them and let's them know (non-violently or at least not unprovoked) that they are just garbage. if you feel like someone is beneath you because of their skin color, or religion, or gender, or sexual orientation, fuck you. you're shit. you should be denounced and condemned and resisted and arrested when you commit or incite violence and harm to decent people.

Tiggnutz wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:Whatever your motive for attacking someone else doesn't and shouldn't matter. If you punch someone in the face because you hate blacks or you punch someone in the face because they like who was voted president or wanted to see a conservative speaker talk it's equally wrong and disgusting.

I don't understand your reply

So all your soldiers are criminals?

showa58taro wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:Whatever your motive for attacking someone else doesn't and shouldn't matter. If you punch someone in the face because you hate blacks or you punch someone in the face because they like who was voted president or wanted to see a conservative speaker talk it's equally wrong and disgusting.

I don't understand your reply

So all your soldiers are criminals?

If it doesn't matter why you do something then your soldiers are off murdering people. Just shooting other humans and blowing them up. Usually we say that's ok because the other side is evil. If it's irrelevant why someone does something they are just murderers.

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:i'll never understand how supremacist bigots will take denouncing of supremacist bigots as a win. but they drove a car into a crowd of people. they killed a girl. and there was no remorse for it, after the fact. i hope that everyone who is even a little bit decent turns on them and let's them know (non-violently or at least not unprovoked) that they are just garbage. if you feel like someone is beneath you because of their skin color, or religion, or gender, or sexual orientation, fuck you. you're shit. you should be denounced and condemned and resisted and arrested when you commit or incite violence and harm to decent people.

Because if you're only part of the problem and some of you are not them your intentions no longer matter. Trump basically says racist views are cool. Just don't punch dudes.

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:i'll never understand how supremacist bigots will take denouncing of supremacist bigots as a win. but they drove a car into a crowd of people. they killed a girl. and there was no remorse for it, after the fact. i hope that everyone who is even a little bit decent turns on them and let's them know (non-violently or at least not unprovoked) that they are just garbage. if you feel like someone is beneath you because of their skin color, or religion, or gender, or sexual orientation, fuck you. you're shit. you should be denounced and condemned and resisted and arrested when you commit or incite violence and harm to decent people.

Because if you're only part of the problem and some of you are not them your intentions no longer matter. Trump basically says racist views are cool. Just don't punch dudes.

how do you deal with racist or bigoted hate speech?

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:i'll never understand how supremacist bigots will take denouncing of supremacist bigots as a win. but they drove a car into a crowd of people. they killed a girl. and there was no remorse for it, after the fact. i hope that everyone who is even a little bit decent turns on them and let's them know (non-violently or at least not unprovoked) that they are just garbage. if you feel like someone is beneath you because of their skin color, or religion, or gender, or sexual orientation, fuck you. you're shit. you should be denounced and condemned and resisted and arrested when you commit or incite violence and harm to decent people.

Because if you're only part of the problem and some of you are not them your intentions no longer matter. Trump basically says racist views are cool. Just don't punch dudes.

how do you deal with racist or bigoted hate speech?

showa58taro wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Jason wrote:Seb, let's say you're correct about David Duke applauding Trump. Why are you using that as a springboard to slam Trump? Who gives a fuck what David Duke has to say? Trump publicly called David Duke a piece of shit for the last 20 fucking years. Whatever Duke says is complete horse shit, but you will preach his words so long as he is praising someone you try so hard to hate.

Because I think Duke is right this time, sadly. I think Trump has done more to advance the White Supremacosts cause and ease into the mainstream than any president before. It was easy to just denounce the racists as racists and call it a day. Instead he called those fighting racists equal to the racists themselves and created an equivalence between the two groups. The most telling thing he said in that conference was something about "white supremacists or neo Nazis or whatever you guys are calling them" because that basically dismisses it as not being a group but rather a phony label put there by the fake News. Which is how they now get to spin it. They can say there was one bad guy who took it too far by driving his car into people. But the rest of the group, are fine people.

When everyone rejects the fringe left and right than we can start to get somewhere. If you don't treat both equally you embolden one or the other. It's just that simple

It really isn't. One group actively hates black people and wants to get back to a all-white ideal. The other wants to shout down those racists. That's not the same.

My best analogy here is of two dads took their kids to the park and two pedophiles came to advocate sex with kids. If one pedophile attacked a dad for saying fuck off, and one dad attacked a pedophile for saying I want to fuck your kids, there's been violence on both sides. But morally there's only one side standing for indefensible egregious harm to be visited upon our society. The other is standing up to their monstrous ideals.

The fact that punches fly is irrelevant to the reason two groups met.

Foo wrote:Trump condemns all bigotry and violence. For some reason this is not enough.

The media portrays people showing up with weapons and fighting gear to a protest as heroes fighting racism.

Who is condoning the violence?

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:i'll never understand how supremacist bigots will take denouncing of supremacist bigots as a win. but they drove a car into a crowd of people. they killed a girl. and there was no remorse for it, after the fact. i hope that everyone who is even a little bit decent turns on them and let's them know (non-violently or at least not unprovoked) that they are just garbage. if you feel like someone is beneath you because of their skin color, or religion, or gender, or sexual orientation, fuck you. you're shit. you should be denounced and condemned and resisted and arrested when you commit or incite violence and harm to decent people.

Because if you're only part of the problem and some of you are not them your intentions no longer matter. Trump basically says racist views are cool. Just don't punch dudes.

how do you deal with racist or bigoted hate speech?

Condemn it in all its forms including their assembly or protests, their ideology, the very things they stand for. Not just when they punch someone.