HorrorMovieFans.com

Pretty open-ended but yeah that would be the most appropriate starting point. Pretty much every aspect of the criminal justice system is bad and needs to be exposed for its absurdity and cruelty.

zombie wrote:i don't think that's the answer as it relates to situations like oj simpson, but in general i think that better training, more accountability, and the like could be a good step for police officers.

In OJ's case, that is absolutely the answer. Black people backed O.J. because they didn't trust the LAPD.

Headhunter wrote:Pretty open-ended but yeah that would be the most appropriate starting point. Pretty much every aspect of the criminal justice system is bad and needs to be exposed for its absurdity and cruelty.

See now that feels like something we can debate. How to reform that shit, obviously Seb and the Euros like the Holiday Inn and Spa treatment.

Reign in Blood wrote:

Headhunter wrote:Pretty open-ended but yeah that would be the most appropriate starting point. Pretty much every aspect of the criminal justice system is bad and needs to be exposed for its absurdity and cruelty.

See now that feels like something we can debate. How to reform that shit, obviously Seb and the Euros like the Holiday Inn and Spa treatment.

I think you have to define what you want the prisoner to be getting out of it. For Europeans, it's all about disincentivizing criminal behavior and building traits that will make them productive citizens. It's a system built on encouragement and positivity.

In the U.S. the focus is kind of on making the prisoner suffer. I think it's fair to say people get a collective satisfaction out of bad things happening to bad people. And it seems properly miserable, but since we're not just throwing every undesirable in front of a firing squad, I feel like the goal should be to get the most out of their time. I think ideally you want to balance having some appropriate fear of punishment with opportunity for growth. Prison here feels more like school for criminals.

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:i don't think that's the answer as it relates to situations like oj simpson, but in general i think that better training, more accountability, and the like could be a good step for police officers.

In OJ's case, that is absolutely the answer. Black people backed O.J. because they didn't trust the LAPD.

well, tribalism of that kind needs to be looked at from within, as well as from beyond, from what external factors may play into it.

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:i don't think that's the answer as it relates to situations like oj simpson, but in general i think that better training, more accountability, and the like could be a good step for police officers.

In OJ's case, that is absolutely the answer. Black people backed O.J. because they didn't trust the LAPD.

well, tribalism of that kind needs to be looked at from within, as well as from beyond, from what external factors may play into it.

Of course you look at both perspectives but that's kind of pointless unless you understand how and why they work in concert. People don't behave irrationally for shits and giggles.

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:i don't think that's the answer as it relates to situations like oj simpson, but in general i think that better training, more accountability, and the like could be a good step for police officers.

In OJ's case, that is absolutely the answer. Black people backed O.J. because they didn't trust the LAPD.

well, tribalism of that kind needs to be looked at from within, as well as from beyond, from what external factors may play into it.

Of course you look at both perspectives but that's kind of pointless unless you understand how and why they work in concert. People don't behave irrationally for shits and giggles.

does the cops seeing how a violent criminal was excused and covered for play into their role within that concert at all? do you think reform or shift in behavior needs to come from all sides, or is it only from the authority figures?

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:i don't think that's the answer as it relates to situations like oj simpson, but in general i think that better training, more accountability, and the like could be a good step for police officers.

In OJ's case, that is absolutely the answer. Black people backed O.J. because they didn't trust the LAPD.

well, tribalism of that kind needs to be looked at from within, as well as from beyond, from what external factors may play into it.

Of course you look at both perspectives but that's kind of pointless unless you understand how and why they work in concert. People don't behave irrationally for shits and giggles.

does the cops seeing how a violent criminal was excused and covered for play into their role within that concert at all? do you think reform or shift in behavior needs to come from all sides, or is it only from the authority figures?

Not sure what you're asking with the first question, but authority figures should always be held to the highest standard and the world tends to react accordingly to the actions of our leaders so it naturally falls on them more than anyone else.

Headhunter wrote: Not sure what you're asking with the first question, but authority figures should always be held to the highest standard and the world tends to react accordingly to the actions of our leaders so it naturally falls on them more than anyone else.

well. you want all the blame to fall to the cops. so we're not gonna agree. but some reform and more responsibility would be good. like i already said.

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:i don't think that's the answer as it relates to situations like oj simpson, but in general i think that better training, more accountability, and the like could be a good step for police officers.

In OJ's case, that is absolutely the answer. Black people backed O.J. because they didn't trust the LAPD.

well, tribalism of that kind needs to be looked at from within, as well as from beyond, from what external factors may play into it.

I should have been more clear on this but this doesn't make sense. You want them to evaluate their behavior but ignore the clear and obvious reasons for that behavior. What exactly does that accomplish

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote: Not sure what you're asking with the first question, but authority figures should always be held to the highest standard and the world tends to react accordingly to the actions of our leaders so it naturally falls on them more than anyone else.

well. you want all the blame to fall to the cops. so we're not gonna agree. but some reform and more responsibility would be good. like i already said.

We're talking about bad policing. Yes, the blame for bad policing is going to fall on police.

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:i don't think that's the answer as it relates to situations like oj simpson, but in general i think that better training, more accountability, and the like could be a good step for police officers.

In OJ's case, that is absolutely the answer. Black people backed O.J. because they didn't trust the LAPD.

well, tribalism of that kind needs to be looked at from within, as well as from beyond, from what external factors may play into it.

I should have been more clear on this but this doesn't make sense. You want them to evaluate their behavior but ignore the clear and obvious reasons for that behavior. What exactly does that accomplish

i think that it has to go both ways. cops treat black people badly and that has an effect on their behavior toward and regard for the cops. black people defend and excuse fucking trash of a human being and that has an effect on how cops treat them and regard them.

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:i don't think that's the answer as it relates to situations like oj simpson, but in general i think that better training, more accountability, and the like could be a good step for police officers.

In OJ's case, that is absolutely the answer. Black people backed O.J. because they didn't trust the LAPD.

well, tribalism of that kind needs to be looked at from within, as well as from beyond, from what external factors may play into it.

I should have been more clear on this but this doesn't make sense. You want them to evaluate their behavior but ignore the clear and obvious reasons for that behavior. What exactly does that accomplish

i think that it has to go both ways. cops treat black people badly and that has an effect on their behavior toward and regard for the cops. black people defend and excuse fucking trash of a human being and that has an effect on how cops treat them and regard them.

"Goes both ways" only works with parallel situations. Power dynamics are so different, they can't be compared.

As I said before, had nothing to do with OJ. They didn't care about OJ any more than white football fans. When an institution fails time and time again to do right, they lose credibility and trust and people view everything they do with skepticism.

Headhunter wrote:As I said before, had nothing to do with OJ. They didn't care about OJ any more than white football fans. When an institution fails time and time again to do right, they lose credibility and trust and people view everything they do with skepticism.

we aren't disagreeing about need for more accountability and reform for police officers. so we can just leave it there, i guess.

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:As I said before, had nothing to do with OJ. They didn't care about OJ any more than white football fans. When an institution fails time and time again to do right, they lose credibility and trust and people view everything they do with skepticism.

we aren't disagreeing about need for more accountability and reform for police officers. so we can just leave it there, i guess.

So it just seems weird to shame people for adopting that attitude of total skepticism. They are reacting to things we know to be problems. Of course it would be better if they liked and trusted the police, but that's on the police to earn their trust.

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:As I said before, had nothing to do with OJ. They didn't care about OJ any more than white football fans. When an institution fails time and time again to do right, they lose credibility and trust and people view everything they do with skepticism.

we aren't disagreeing about need for more accountability and reform for police officers. so we can just leave it there, i guess.

So it just seems weird to shame people for adopting that attitude of total skepticism. They are reacting to things we know to be problems. Of course it would be better if they liked and trusted the police, but that's on the police to earn their trust.

it seems weird to fight me on thinking that something should be done about a piece of shit being able to hide behind his identity and use it to absolve himself. but if all that blame falls to the cops, and nothing else can be done in addition, i guess i won't argue you out of your position.

When cops are bad, it's all on the cops. When pieces of shit are bad, it's all on the cops. Pretty straight forward.

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:As I said before, had nothing to do with OJ. They didn't care about OJ any more than white football fans. When an institution fails time and time again to do right, they lose credibility and trust and people view everything they do with skepticism.

we aren't disagreeing about need for more accountability and reform for police officers. so we can just leave it there, i guess.

So it just seems weird to shame people for adopting that attitude of total skepticism. They are reacting to things we know to be problems. Of course it would be better if they liked and trusted the police, but that's on the police to earn their trust.

it seems weird to fight me on thinking that something should be done about a piece of shit being able to hide behind his identity and use it to absolve himself. but if all that blame falls to the cops, and nothing else can be done in addition, i guess i won't argue you out of your position.

You must be mistaking me for someone else because I have absolutely no clue what you're referring to here. Definitely didn't fight about...whatever that is.

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:As I said before, had nothing to do with OJ. They didn't care about OJ any more than white football fans. When an institution fails time and time again to do right, they lose credibility and trust and people view everything they do with skepticism.

we aren't disagreeing about need for more accountability and reform for police officers. so we can just leave it there, i guess.

So it just seems weird to shame people for adopting that attitude of total skepticism. They are reacting to things we know to be problems. Of course it would be better if they liked and trusted the police, but that's on the police to earn their trust.

it seems weird to fight me on thinking that something should be done about a piece of shit being able to hide behind his identity and use it to absolve himself. but if all that blame falls to the cops, and nothing else can be done in addition, i guess i won't argue you out of your position.

You must be mistaking me for someone else because I have absolutely no clue what you're referring to here. Definitely didn't fight about...whatever that is.

well, i've tried to be pretty clear that that is my position. and you boil it down to mocking people for being uneasy or untrusting of police and authority. so i don't know how else to express the position.