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zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:you don't show pride in the exact way i want you to, so you're just fucking garbage. fair play.

Why do you think 99.9% of people stand for the anthem?

mostly, hopefully, cause it's a way to show pride. and some because most other people are doing it. and some because if they don't, some jerk will turn around and call them anti american.

I was at an event today with a ton of veterans. Everything stopped when the anthem was played. People struggled to get up from their wheelchairs to honor the brave men who gave their lives.

If you have to be told why it is wrong to sit after seeing that, you need to re-evaluate who the jerk is.

that is very cool that they show their pride in that way, so strongly.

and no one should try to keep people from standing, or keep the anthem from being played. if someone is doing that, i would be right there with you calling that shit out.

Would you think less of a person who chose to sit during the anthem?

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:you don't show pride in the exact way i want you to, so you're just fucking garbage. fair play.

Why do you think 99.9% of people stand for the anthem?

mostly, hopefully, cause it's a way to show pride. and some because most other people are doing it. and some because if they don't, some jerk will turn around and call them anti american.

I was at an event today with a ton of veterans. Everything stopped when the anthem was played. People struggled to get up from their wheelchairs to honor the brave men who gave their lives.

If you have to be told why it is wrong to sit after seeing that, you need to re-evaluate who the jerk is.

that is very cool that they show their pride in that way, so strongly.

and no one should try to keep people from standing, or keep the anthem from being played. if someone is doing that, i would be right there with you calling that shit out.

Would you think less of a person who chose to sit during the anthem?

always chose to sit? probably a little bit. unless they had a justifiable reason.

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:you don't show pride in the exact way i want you to, so you're just fucking garbage. fair play.

Why do you think 99.9% of people stand for the anthem?

mostly, hopefully, cause it's a way to show pride. and some because most other people are doing it. and some because if they don't, some jerk will turn around and call them anti american.

I was at an event today with a ton of veterans. Everything stopped when the anthem was played. People struggled to get up from their wheelchairs to honor the brave men who gave their lives.

If you have to be told why it is wrong to sit after seeing that, you need to re-evaluate who the jerk is.

that is very cool that they show their pride in that way, so strongly.

and no one should try to keep people from standing, or keep the anthem from being played. if someone is doing that, i would be right there with you calling that shit out.

Would you think less of a person who chose to sit during the anthem?

always chose to sit? probably a little bit. unless they had a justifiable reason.

Like a broken back?

yes. that would be a justifiable reason.

Never stood for the Pledge in high school, so don't see why I'd ever stand for the national anthem. Both are atrociously awful. I'd rather burn the flag than stand for either tbh.

*Not trolling*

why is that?

zombie wrote:why is that?

Because a country of people that says "You must stand for the Pledge/Anthem or you're a bad person" is not a country worth respecting. Of course, there's many things to not respect about this country, but seriously, if this is a country of "freedom," then do people not have the freedom to refuse to stand up for patriotic gestures?

Patriotism isn't something I've ever felt, and despite what conservatives and people like Trump may say, that doesn't make me or my opinions worth any less respect. Forced patriotism, by way of shaming people who don't stand for the Anthem, or shaming students for choosing to remain seated during the Pledge, is utterly abominable.

Conservatives apparently like individualism unless it's perceived as an action critical of "America the Great."

I'm not saying I'd burn the flag (though I see absolutely nothing wrong with doing so), but taking a stand against some of what this country does or allows seems far superior to blindly praising, and forcing others to praise, the country by forcing them to stand for the Pledge/Anthem.

I know that you yourself likely have no problem when people choose to abstain from patriotic gestures. This is more directed at people like Foo or Jason who have, in the past, referred to me as an "asshole" because I didn't stand for the Pledge in school (when not standing should be the base act).

Meanwhile, everyone at Bdubs will be drinking and slapping their waitresses on the ass. I tried to get video of three dudes bitching about Colin Kaepernick at Bdubs......while the fucking Anthem was playing. I was too late once I realized the irony.

Me I sat quietly and fist bumped the veteran I watched the game with. These conservatives are taking this fake patriotism too fucking seriously. I see some of them sharing memes saying it should be law for kids to stand for the anthem in classrooms. I say NO to that all goddamn day. Me, personally......I always show respect during the anthem.

A law to stand for the anthem/pledge? Utterly disgusting. Luckily, the ACLU would decimate any fool who tried that bullshit, just as they've been doing good jobs with idiots trying to force religion into public schools.

Jigsaw wrote:A law to stand for the anthem/pledge? Utterly disgusting. Luckily, the ACLU would decimate any fool who tried that bullshit, just as they've been doing good jobs with idiots trying to force religion into public schools.

See, I am of mixed opinion when it comes to that too. I don't care if a teacher want to read the Bible to themselves, but I do have a problem with then teaching the Bible to students. That is what church is for. It always cracks me up when Foo or Jason share videos of stupid liberals and lunps everyone together. Meanwhile, I am watching videos of mega churches who act as healers and dancing like like smoked meth, and they accept that shit all day. Lmao

Jigsaw wrote:

zombie wrote:why is that?

Because a country of people that says "You must stand for the Pledge/Anthem or you're a bad person" is not a country worth respecting. Of course, there's many things to not respect about this country, but seriously, if this is a country of "freedom," then do people not have the freedom to refuse to stand up for patriotic gestures?

Patriotism isn't something I've ever felt, and despite what conservatives and people like Trump may say, that doesn't make me or my opinions worth any less respect. Forced patriotism, by way of shaming people who don't stand for the Anthem, or shaming students for choosing to remain seated during the Pledge, is utterly abominable.

Conservatives apparently like individualism unless it's perceived as an action critical of "America the Great."

I'm not saying I'd burn the flag (though I see absolutely nothing wrong with doing so), but taking a stand against some of what this country does or allows seems far superior to blindly praising, and forcing others to praise, the country by forcing them to stand for the Pledge/Anthem.

I know that you yourself likely have no problem when people choose to abstain from patriotic gestures. This is more directed at people like Foo or Jason who have, in the past, referred to me as an "asshole" because I didn't stand for the Pledge in school (when not standing should be the base act).

yeah, i don't agree with calling people assholes or anti-american because they don't stand for the anthem or pledge. but i also don't fault the country, as a whole, for the reaction of those people. it's their opinion and actions alone.

Jmac Attack wrote:

Jigsaw wrote:A law to stand for the anthem/pledge? Utterly disgusting. Luckily, the ACLU would decimate any fool who tried that bullshit, just as they've been doing good jobs with idiots trying to force religion into public schools.

See, I am of mixed opinion when it comes to that too. I don't care if a teacher want to read the Bible to themselves, but I do have a problem with then teaching the Bible to students. That is what church is for. It always cracks me up when Foo or Jason share videos of stupid liberals and lunps everyone together. Meanwhile, I am watching videos of mega churches who act as healers and dancing like like smoked meth, and they accept that shit all day. Lmao

There's not even a problem with teaching about the Bible, as long as it's taught in a comparative religion or literature class, and not taught as fact.

It's the idiocy of teacher-led prayer, which luckily we shouldn't have anymore, along with schools that occasionally put up the Ten Commandments that disgust me.

zombie wrote:

Jigsaw wrote:

zombie wrote:why is that?

Because a country of people that says "You must stand for the Pledge/Anthem or you're a bad person" is not a country worth respecting. Of course, there's many things to not respect about this country, but seriously, if this is a country of "freedom," then do people not have the freedom to refuse to stand up for patriotic gestures?

Patriotism isn't something I've ever felt, and despite what conservatives and people like Trump may say, that doesn't make me or my opinions worth any less respect. Forced patriotism, by way of shaming people who don't stand for the Anthem, or shaming students for choosing to remain seated during the Pledge, is utterly abominable.

Conservatives apparently like individualism unless it's perceived as an action critical of "America the Great."

I'm not saying I'd burn the flag (though I see absolutely nothing wrong with doing so), but taking a stand against some of what this country does or allows seems far superior to blindly praising, and forcing others to praise, the country by forcing them to stand for the Pledge/Anthem.

I know that you yourself likely have no problem when people choose to abstain from patriotic gestures. This is more directed at people like Foo or Jason who have, in the past, referred to me as an "asshole" because I didn't stand for the Pledge in school (when not standing should be the base act).

yeah, i don't agree with calling people assholes or anti-american because they don't stand for the anthem or pledge. but i also don't fault the country, as a whole, for the reaction of those people. it's their opinion and actions alone.

Indeed.

Truth be told, I don't know how much of it really matters - a lot of people will criticize people who refuse to show (false) patriotism, but many of those people are likely uneducated anyway, so I don't even put the fault on them.

There's just a lot of shit wrong with this country and there's no easy person/organization to blame, which, mixed with the (planned) apathetic society and misinformation from the media, it's basically beyond saving.

Jigsaw wrote: Indeed.

Truth be told, I don't know how much of it really matters - a lot of people will criticize people who refuse to show (false) patriotism, but many of those people are likely uneducated anyway, so I don't even put the fault on them.

There's just a lot of shit wrong with this country and there's no easy person/organization to blame, which, mixed with the (planned) apathetic society and misinformation from the media, it's basically beyond saving.

enh. there is always room to change. it's always worth trying for change.

zombie wrote:

Jigsaw wrote: Indeed.

Truth be told, I don't know how much of it really matters - a lot of people will criticize people who refuse to show (false) patriotism, but many of those people are likely uneducated anyway, so I don't even put the fault on them.

There's just a lot of shit wrong with this country and there's no easy person/organization to blame, which, mixed with the (planned) apathetic society and misinformation from the media, it's basically beyond saving.

enh. there is always room to change. it's always worth trying for change.

Indeed, which is why I vote and organize and inform people about third parties. Hopefully it'll make some difference, but most likely at best it'll be locally.

Jigsaw wrote:Never stood for the Pledge in high school, so don't see why I'd ever stand for the national anthem. Both are atrociously awful. I'd rather burn the flag than stand for either tbh.

*Not trolling*

If you never stood, even at a point in your life where you could not have understood why you stand, then your protesting later becomes meaningless.

Jigsaw wrote:

zombie wrote:

Jigsaw wrote: Indeed.

Truth be told, I don't know how much of it really matters - a lot of people will criticize people who refuse to show (false) patriotism, but many of those people are likely uneducated anyway, so I don't even put the fault on them.

There's just a lot of shit wrong with this country and there's no easy person/organization to blame, which, mixed with the (planned) apathetic society and misinformation from the media, it's basically beyond saving.

enh. there is always room to change. it's always worth trying for change.

Indeed, which is why I vote and organize and inform people about third parties. Hopefully it'll make some difference, but most likely at best it'll be locally.

It won't make any difference unless you can show yourself to be a leader worth following. Not trying to be mean, but why would someone follow your advice?

Foo wrote:

Jigsaw wrote:

zombie wrote:

Jigsaw wrote: Indeed.

Truth be told, I don't know how much of it really matters - a lot of people will criticize people who refuse to show (false) patriotism, but many of those people are likely uneducated anyway, so I don't even put the fault on them.

There's just a lot of shit wrong with this country and there's no easy person/organization to blame, which, mixed with the (planned) apathetic society and misinformation from the media, it's basically beyond saving.

enh. there is always room to change. it's always worth trying for change.

Indeed, which is why I vote and organize and inform people about third parties. Hopefully it'll make some difference, but most likely at best it'll be locally.

It won't make any difference unless you can show yourself to be a leader worth following. Not trying to be mean, but why would someone follow your advice?

Not sure - since I've gotten people to vote for third party candidates before, you'd have to ask them.

If we as Americans cannot stand together for a simple moment of unity and respect, there is no hope. We are devolving into classless, selfish fools.

Foo wrote:If we as Americans cannot stand together for a simple moment of unity and respect, there is no hope. We are devolving into classless, selfish fools.

Why would we stand for unity in a country that doesn't care about unity? That makes no sense. If someone wants to respect the flag, or the anthem, go ahead and do so. But that's an individual's choice - it shouldn't be expected of anyone.