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Headhunter wrote:

Jason wrote:

Headhunter wrote:"The only one". The only one in what context? Foles was a 3rd rounder. You didn't know jack about Siemian and Fitzpatrick until they'd played and all they've proven is they can stick around as backups.

Well, Jameis hasn't progressed much so as of now that's egg on both of our faces.

I don't question it. Questioning it would imply my position on it is unclear.

Again, what wagon did I jump off of? You're misremembering my position or making it up to serve your whining.

The only one talking about them. Nobody ever said Foles had the tools to be a great QB. Everybody was wondering how many combined run/pass yards Vick would get. I evaluated Siemian the same way I evaluated Foles. They are pretty close to the same QB, though I liken Trevor to be more similar to Kirk. Funny how they ended up on the same team, too. Everybody loved to dawg Fitzpatrick while ignoring the fact that he played on horrendous defenses that would give up 42 points and force him to throw into double coverage halfway into the 4th quarter when down by two scores. "Fitzy sucks! He is so unclutch!" There are levels to evaluating talent, most just aren't on mine. Sawwy.

I thought Jameis would've been the premier deep threat passer of his era, at this point. He can hit the deep throws, but not consistently. It's not looking as good as I thought.

Well, you get it wrong all the time, so it's only fair of me to assume that.

I could be recalling it a little differently, I don't know. But I certainly got the impression that you were on the "Swag Kelly Train".

Only one of whom?

Thousands of people scout college players. Plenty of those people liked Foles. You sound so obnoxious and egotistical boasting about how you're the only person who was right. And the punchline is, he hasn't been who you thought he was. He's a backup quarterback. It all plays out like some parody of a know-it-all sports fan and it's hard to believe you can't see that. As far as Siemian goes, when did you start "evaluating" him?

Fitzpatrick pretty much throws horrible picks in any and all situations because that's just who he is, not sure why you're stuck on one in particular.

You're not recalling differently so much as you're just wrong altogether, in that case.

Headhunter wrote:

Jason wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Jason wrote:

Headhunter wrote: Your excitement to throw him out the door after 3 games has only been matched by your excitement listening to a brief soundbite. It's reactionary behavior.

That's not the "only difference", there are really a lot of differences. And since you wanted to bring up the Tebow thing, those situations are nothing alike. I said at the time starting Tebow was the right move and the only move because the team was terrible and they'd invested a 1st into Tebow's development. I never thought he'd be worth a shit, but I knew he had to play. I''m not going to apologize for not thinking he was a franchise QB after one of the most fluky win streaks in NFL history. It was fun, but he was never the answer. But see, the context of where a team is at plays into my judgements here, unlike you who wants to bench Keenum after three games following an offseason of building the team around him.

I ain't feeling him. Shoot me. Again, if you want to hangout in 8-8 purgatory, that's on you. I'd rather give Chad Kelly the reps.

You said you'd rather have Tebow than Manning. Do you remember that? Also, the team isn't building around Keenum, they are building around Von Miller. He is the heart and soul of the defense and they have been trying to surround him with good players for years.

Do you not understand that it doesn't matter what you or I want? Elway constructed this team to compete this year. Vance Joseph doesn't have a year to waste. They took a pass rusher who can contribute now over a QB because Elway thinks he can get this team to the playoffs. Their entire offseason strategy is built around the idea that Case Keenum could do that. So yeah, it would be pretty stupid in every way imaginable for them to reverse course after three games and throw away the philosophy that shaped their roster construction. Makes zero sense. And yeah, this team is built around Keenum, he is expected to be the leader of the team and that played a part in why he was the guy they wanted when they were priced out on Cousins. Von is their best player, but he's not a team leader (they tried that last year and the locker room was a mess; he's not that guy) and you don't "build around" a pass rusher. Their goal has not been surrounding him with good players, in fact they've mostly shed good players around him since the Super Bowl. Their goal has been to find a QB, and they've failed time and time again.

I do remember that. Given how you know I felt about Tebow, you should get that it was a tongue-in-cheek message more about how I didn't want Peyton than wanting to build around Tebow. And again, it was shaped by roster expectations. Didn't think the roster was up to snuff to go on some "win-now" binge and Peyton's recovery was not a guarantee either. Glad it worked out. Not sure what any of this has to do with our conversation?

Of course I understand that. I understand everything you wrote in that paragraph is true. I am coming from a place of what I (me) (Jason) wants. There is no way in hell they are benching Keenum any time soon, but I do not see this season ending any better with Keenum than I do with Chad Kelly. I think if they were to put Kelly in now, he would do better in his first 13 starts than Keenum would do in the rest of the season. That's just me. I could be wrong, but I am usually p. good at this tbh HMFkisssmiley.png

I actually forgot where I was gonna go with the Manning thing. SO YOU"RE OFF THE HOOK _{(you lucky pos)}

Well, I don't know why you would do it, because the effect in the locker room would be disastrous. If you make that move, you better also be committed to a total rebuild which means maximizing the value on guys like Miller and Harris. You don't just plug guys into spots with no effect on everything happening with the team. Just because you think the season will play out a certain way doesn't mean you don't see an investment through, what was the point of spending months constructing a roster if you throw in the towel at 2-1?

Headhunter wrote:My hyping of Swag Kelly has pretty much consisted of making jokes about his previous gangsta persona and wanting him to push Paxton Lynch off the roster because I couldn't stand that guy.

Jason wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Jason wrote:

Headhunter wrote:"The only one". The only one in what context? Foles was a 3rd rounder. You didn't know jack about Siemian and Fitzpatrick until they'd played and all they've proven is they can stick around as backups.

Well, Jameis hasn't progressed much so as of now that's egg on both of our faces.

I don't question it. Questioning it would imply my position on it is unclear.

Again, what wagon did I jump off of? You're misremembering my position or making it up to serve your whining.

The only one talking about them. Nobody ever said Foles had the tools to be a great QB. Everybody was wondering how many combined run/pass yards Vick would get. I evaluated Siemian the same way I evaluated Foles. They are pretty close to the same QB, though I liken Trevor to be more similar to Kirk. Funny how they ended up on the same team, too. Everybody loved to dawg Fitzpatrick while ignoring the fact that he played on horrendous defenses that would give up 42 points and force him to throw into double coverage halfway into the 4th quarter when down by two scores. "Fitzy sucks! He is so unclutch!" There are levels to evaluating talent, most just aren't on mine. Sawwy.

I thought Jameis would've been the premier deep threat passer of his era, at this point. He can hit the deep throws, but not consistently. It's not looking as good as I thought.

Well, you get it wrong all the time, so it's only fair of me to assume that.

I could be recalling it a little differently, I don't know. But I certainly got the impression that you were on the "Swag Kelly Train".

Only one of whom?

Thousands of people scout college players. Plenty of those people liked Foles. You sound so obnoxious and egotistical boasting about how you're the only person who was right. And the punchline is, he hasn't been who you thought he was. He's a backup quarterback. It all plays out like some parody of a know-it-all sports fan and it's hard to believe you can't see that. As far as Siemian goes, when did you start "evaluating" him?

Fitzpatrick pretty much throws horrible picks in any and all situations because that's just who he is, not sure why you're stuck on one in particular.

You're not recalling differently so much as you're just wrong altogether, in that case.

Only one of anybody on the planet not friends or family of Nick Foles.

I evaluated Splooge the moment he got to the NFL and started getting in real-time reps. I don't care if they were 1st/2nd/3rd stringers. Decision making, ball placement and improvisation are key in evaluating talent. If he threw 10 dink TD passes in zone coverage every preseason game, I wouldn't have a proper evaluation. He showed poise, pocket presence when he actually had the opportunity, good decision making, and tremendous accuracy. Siemian is certainly a starter-level QB. He proved to be better than decent when he played under the worst QB situation ever.

So, Sir Fitz-A-Lot is all of a sudden just a lights-out badass overnight and Tampa Bay was his calling? Not buying it.

Foles threw 28 TDs, 2 INTs in impression fashion (i.e. not dink & dunk) when he got his first opportunities, had minor hiccups as any QB would, came off the bench, led his team through the playoffs on a Super Bowl run when nobody but me gave him a chance, and had one of the greatest individual QB performances in Superb Owl history. If I told you the sun rose earlier this morning, you'd probably call that wrong, too.

Jason wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Jason wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Jason wrote:

Headhunter wrote: Your excitement to throw him out the door after 3 games has only been matched by your excitement listening to a brief soundbite. It's reactionary behavior.

That's not the "only difference", there are really a lot of differences. And since you wanted to bring up the Tebow thing, those situations are nothing alike. I said at the time starting Tebow was the right move and the only move because the team was terrible and they'd invested a 1st into Tebow's development. I never thought he'd be worth a shit, but I knew he had to play. I''m not going to apologize for not thinking he was a franchise QB after one of the most fluky win streaks in NFL history. It was fun, but he was never the answer. But see, the context of where a team is at plays into my judgements here, unlike you who wants to bench Keenum after three games following an offseason of building the team around him.

I ain't feeling him. Shoot me. Again, if you want to hangout in 8-8 purgatory, that's on you. I'd rather give Chad Kelly the reps.

You said you'd rather have Tebow than Manning. Do you remember that? Also, the team isn't building around Keenum, they are building around Von Miller. He is the heart and soul of the defense and they have been trying to surround him with good players for years.

Do you not understand that it doesn't matter what you or I want? Elway constructed this team to compete this year. Vance Joseph doesn't have a year to waste. They took a pass rusher who can contribute now over a QB because Elway thinks he can get this team to the playoffs. Their entire offseason strategy is built around the idea that Case Keenum could do that. So yeah, it would be pretty stupid in every way imaginable for them to reverse course after three games and throw away the philosophy that shaped their roster construction. Makes zero sense. And yeah, this team is built around Keenum, he is expected to be the leader of the team and that played a part in why he was the guy they wanted when they were priced out on Cousins. Von is their best player, but he's not a team leader (they tried that last year and the locker room was a mess; he's not that guy) and you don't "build around" a pass rusher. Their goal has not been surrounding him with good players, in fact they've mostly shed good players around him since the Super Bowl. Their goal has been to find a QB, and they've failed time and time again.

I do remember that. Given how you know I felt about Tebow, you should get that it was a tongue-in-cheek message more about how I didn't want Peyton than wanting to build around Tebow. And again, it was shaped by roster expectations. Didn't think the roster was up to snuff to go on some "win-now" binge and Peyton's recovery was not a guarantee either. Glad it worked out. Not sure what any of this has to do with our conversation?

Of course I understand that. I understand everything you wrote in that paragraph is true. I am coming from a place of what I (me) (Jason) wants. There is no way in hell they are benching Keenum any time soon, but I do not see this season ending any better with Keenum than I do with Chad Kelly. I think if they were to put Kelly in now, he would do better in his first 13 starts than Keenum would do in the rest of the season. That's just me. I could be wrong, but I am usually p. good at this tbh HMFkisssmiley.png

I actually forgot where I was gonna go with the Manning thing. SO YOU"RE OFF THE HOOK _{(you lucky pos)}

Well, I don't know why you would do it, because the effect in the locker room would be disastrous. If you make that move, you better also be committed to a total rebuild which means maximizing the value on guys like Miller and Harris. You don't just plug guys into spots with no effect on everything happening with the team. Just because you think the season will play out a certain way doesn't mean you don't see an investment through, what was the point of spending months constructing a roster if you throw in the towel at 2-1?

"Throw in the towel".

We differ on that definition. I see improvement if we put Kelly in.

Headhunter wrote: It's pretty amazing just how delusional you are. To actually think you're the only person watching football who thinks Foles had that potential. He was a Day 3 pick, for fuck's sake. Your ego is embarrassing.

No, Fitzpatrick is riding yet another brief hot stretch that continues the natural cycle of his career. Backup gets hurt/benched, he plays well for a stretch, a team gives him a chance to be "the guy", he fails, gets cut and signs somewhere as a backup...rinse and repeat.

Why isn't Foles starting for a team? You hype up his accomplishments but no team thinks he's worth a shit. How interesting.

Headhunter wrote:"In a different year, it's possible that Foles could be vying for the top quarterback spot; he is hit with hard luck by being in the middle of a quarterback-laden class."

That comes from the NFL.com draft profile on Foles. But please give Jason all the credit, as the only one to think he had potential.

Jason wrote:

Headhunter wrote:"In a different year, it's possible that Foles could be vying for the top quarterback spot; he is hit with hard luck by being in the middle of a quarterback-laden class."

That comes from the NFL.com draft profile on Foles. But please give Jason all the credit, as the only one to think he had potential.

Make up yo mind. In one sentence you say I'm delusional in that I was the only one who thought he could be worth a shit, in the other sentence you give me shit for hyping his accomplishments by saying nobody else gives a shit about Sir Nicholas Foles but me.

derp

Headhunter wrote:

Jason wrote:

Headhunter wrote:"In a different year, it's possible that Foles could be vying for the top quarterback spot; he is hit with hard luck by being in the middle of a quarterback-laden class."

That comes from the NFL.com draft profile on Foles. But please give Jason all the credit, as the only one to think he had potential.

Make up yo mind. In one sentence you say I'm delusional in that I was the only one who thought he could be worth a shit, in the other sentence you give me shit for hyping his accomplishments by saying nobody else gives a shit about Sir Nicholas Foles but me.

derp

What are you talking about?

That comes from a pre-draft profile. Foles was moderately liked as a prospect, I'm illustrating how absurd you look for claiming to be the only person to think he had potential. That has nothing to do with how his career has progressed and how he's perceived since he's actually been in the league.

Jason wrote:

Headhunter wrote: It's pretty amazing just how delusional you are. To actually think you're the only person watching football who thinks Foles had that potential. He was a Day 3 pick, for fuck's sake. Your ego is embarrassing.

No, Fitzpatrick is riding yet another brief hot stretch that continues the natural cycle of his career. Backup gets hurt/benched, he plays well for a stretch, a team gives him a chance to be "the guy", he fails, gets cut and signs somewhere as a backup...rinse and repeat.

Why isn't Foles starting for a team? You hype up his accomplishments but no team thinks he's worth a shit. How interesting.

Ryan Leaf was a day one pick. The draft is cute and all, but not a human soul knows how a football player is going to perform under the bright lights of NFL talent. He was drafted, that's awesome. Nobody gave a fuck when he was sitting on the bench behind Vick or struggling against the Rams. He had the talent, and he matured into a great QB. Nobody predicted that.

I should smack every sports-writer sucking Fitzy's dick all-of-a-sudden. I've been sucking that di- How long was I praising Fitzy for before anyone noticed he had the capabilities he's been showing, especially in Tampa Bay? He'll have a poor game, but when his defense consistently puts out, he'll deliver 80% of the time. And he'll deliver huge even when the defense blows ass (New Orleans, week 1).

"Why isn't Foles starting?" I don't know, take that up with the people who drafted him in day 3. Apparently I'm not the only one who sees the tremendous potential in Foles, according to your first paragraph right?

Jason wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Jason wrote:

Headhunter wrote:"In a different year, it's possible that Foles could be vying for the top quarterback spot; he is hit with hard luck by being in the middle of a quarterback-laden class."

That comes from the NFL.com draft profile on Foles. But please give Jason all the credit, as the only one to think he had potential.

Make up yo mind. In one sentence you say I'm delusional in that I was the only one who thought he could be worth a shit, in the other sentence you give me shit for hyping his accomplishments by saying nobody else gives a shit about Sir Nicholas Foles but me.

derp

What are you talking about?

That comes from a pre-draft profile. Foles was moderately liked as a prospect, I'm illustrating how absurd you look for claiming to be the only person to think he had potential. That has nothing to do with how his career has progressed and how he's perceived since he's actually been in the league.

Ok. So, am I the only one who gives a shit about him now? Currently?

Headhunter wrote:

Jason wrote:

Headhunter wrote: It's pretty amazing just how delusional you are. To actually think you're the only person watching football who thinks Foles had that potential. He was a Day 3 pick, for fuck's sake. Your ego is embarrassing.

No, Fitzpatrick is riding yet another brief hot stretch that continues the natural cycle of his career. Backup gets hurt/benched, he plays well for a stretch, a team gives him a chance to be "the guy", he fails, gets cut and signs somewhere as a backup...rinse and repeat.

Why isn't Foles starting for a team? You hype up his accomplishments but no team thinks he's worth a shit. How interesting.

Ryan Leaf was a day one pick. The draft is cute and all, but not a human soul knows how a football player is going to perform under the bright lights of NFL talent. He was drafted, that's awesome. Nobody gave a fuck when he was sitting on the bench behind Vick or struggling against the Rams. He had the talent, and he matured into a great QB. Nobody predicted that.

I should smack every sports-writer sucking Fitzy's dick all-of-a-sudden. I've been sucking that di- How long was I praising Fitzy for before anyone noticed he had the capabilities he's been showing, especially in Tampa Bay? He'll have a poor game, but when his defense consistently puts out, he'll deliver 80% of the time. And he'll deliver huge even when the defense blows ass (New Orleans, week 1).

"Why isn't Foles starting?" I don't know, take that up with the people who drafted him in day 3. Apparently I'm not the only one who sees the tremendous potential in Foles, according to your first paragraph right?

What exactly is your Leaf point refuting? Your claim was that nobody else saw potential in Foles. Clearly that isn't true.

Yes, we know you've been sucking his dick for years. And the cycle of his career that I laid out has been consistent.

Uhhh yeah, before he was drafted he was moderately liked as a prospect (hint: before he entered the NFL), was viewed as having starter potential. Six years later, the league views him a backup (hint: after six years of actually playing in the NFL). Are you not able to distinguish between those two evaluations?

Headhunter wrote:

Jason wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Jason wrote:

Headhunter wrote:"In a different year, it's possible that Foles could be vying for the top quarterback spot; he is hit with hard luck by being in the middle of a quarterback-laden class."

That comes from the NFL.com draft profile on Foles. But please give Jason all the credit, as the only one to think he had potential.

Make up yo mind. In one sentence you say I'm delusional in that I was the only one who thought he could be worth a shit, in the other sentence you give me shit for hyping his accomplishments by saying nobody else gives a shit about Sir Nicholas Foles but me.

derp

What are you talking about?

That comes from a pre-draft profile. Foles was moderately liked as a prospect, I'm illustrating how absurd you look for claiming to be the only person to think he had potential. That has nothing to do with how his career has progressed and how he's perceived since he's actually been in the league.

Ok. So, am I the only one who gives a shit about him now? Currently?

I don't know about "only one", there are surely other fans who do. Doesn't really make sense to declare someone be the only person among millions of people to know/think something, that's insane. But yeah, NFL teams have demonstrated that they don't view him as a starter and haven't for a few years.

Jason wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Jason wrote:

Headhunter wrote: It's pretty amazing just how delusional you are. To actually think you're the only person watching football who thinks Foles had that potential. He was a Day 3 pick, for fuck's sake. Your ego is embarrassing.

No, Fitzpatrick is riding yet another brief hot stretch that continues the natural cycle of his career. Backup gets hurt/benched, he plays well for a stretch, a team gives him a chance to be "the guy", he fails, gets cut and signs somewhere as a backup...rinse and repeat.

Why isn't Foles starting for a team? You hype up his accomplishments but no team thinks he's worth a shit. How interesting.

Ryan Leaf was a day one pick. The draft is cute and all, but not a human soul knows how a football player is going to perform under the bright lights of NFL talent. He was drafted, that's awesome. Nobody gave a fuck when he was sitting on the bench behind Vick or struggling against the Rams. He had the talent, and he matured into a great QB. Nobody predicted that.

I should smack every sports-writer sucking Fitzy's dick all-of-a-sudden. I've been sucking that di- How long was I praising Fitzy for before anyone noticed he had the capabilities he's been showing, especially in Tampa Bay? He'll have a poor game, but when his defense consistently puts out, he'll deliver 80% of the time. And he'll deliver huge even when the defense blows ass (New Orleans, week 1).

"Why isn't Foles starting?" I don't know, take that up with the people who drafted him in day 3. Apparently I'm not the only one who sees the tremendous potential in Foles, according to your first paragraph right?

What exactly is your Leaf point refuting? Your claim was that nobody else saw potential in Foles. Clearly that isn't true.

Yes, we know you've been sucking his dick for years. And the cycle of his career that I laid out has been consistent.

Uhhh yeah, before he was drafted he was moderately liked as a prospect (hint: before he entered the NFL), was viewed as having starter potential. Six years later, the league views him a backup (hint: after six years of actually playing in the NFL). Are you not able to distinguish between those two evaluations?

You brought up scouts and put them on a pedestal above me, which is fine, but the truth is nobody knows how a player will pan out. I don't care when they are drafted, I care when I see them performing under the bright lights of the NFL.

I've been praising him for years. And while the cycle you laid out is consistent, it is not reflective of the "failure" part. Ever notice the teams that pick him up are garbage and they tend to be elevated to average/near playoff form when Fitzy is under the helm? No, that's why I've been suck- why I've been praising him.

Yeah, I'm able to distinguish those two evaluations. And I've come to the conclusion that I must be better at evaluating talent than most people, since they viewed him as a meh prospect in day 3 of draft, saw him throw for 28 TDs and 2 INTs in his first stint, go on to own the Super Bowl single-handedly, yet still think he's only backup level. :idea:

Jason wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Jason wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Jason wrote:

Headhunter wrote:"In a different year, it's possible that Foles could be vying for the top quarterback spot; he is hit with hard luck by being in the middle of a quarterback-laden class."

That comes from the NFL.com draft profile on Foles. But please give Jason all the credit, as the only one to think he had potential.

Make up yo mind. In one sentence you say I'm delusional in that I was the only one who thought he could be worth a shit, in the other sentence you give me shit for hyping his accomplishments by saying nobody else gives a shit about Sir Nicholas Foles but me.

derp

What are you talking about?

That comes from a pre-draft profile. Foles was moderately liked as a prospect, I'm illustrating how absurd you look for claiming to be the only person to think he had potential. That has nothing to do with how his career has progressed and how he's perceived since he's actually been in the league.

Ok. So, am I the only one who gives a shit about him now? Currently?

I don't know about "only one", there are surely other fans who do. Doesn't really make sense to declare someone be the only person among millions of people to know/think something, that's insane. But yeah, NFL teams have demonstrated that they don't view him as a starter and haven't for a few years.

Ok. So I'm still (almost) alone in thinking Foles is easily a starter-level QB. Maybe there are 2 or 3 more out of the "millions of people to know/think something" who think the same as I do of Foles.

Headhunter wrote:I don't know why you always go back to the "you're making a double standard / make up your mind" well. Not even one single time have these been on the mark, and it doesn't even advance your argument, just illustrates that you're not able to distinguish between nuanced concepts or understand what a double standard actually entails.

Headhunter wrote: I didn't put them on a pedestal above you, I put them beside you. Remember you were the one to claim nobody else watching/scouting football thought he had great potential. All I did was refute that by providing an example of other people who saw potential.

Fitzpatrick has had one winning record as a starter. One. So no, I haven't noticed that being that it's not actually true...

You missed my edit to Day 2. He was a Day 2 pick, which is a fairly rich investment. But I guess you can fall back on the "I'm just smarter than everyone" route, when you got nothing else. He's a backup and you are constantly boasting about the expectations you set for him that he didn't actually live up to. Amazing stuff...