Trump Assassination Attempt Discussion

[Jigsaw]

At least 16 independent or third party candidates are on at least one ballot.

1) Shiva Ayyadurai (independent)
2) Claudia De la Cruz (Party for Socialism and Liberation)
3) Lucifer “Justin Case” Everylove (independent)
4) Rachele Fruit (Socialist Workers Party)
5) Chris Garrity (independent)
6) Blake Huber (Approval Voting Party)
7) Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (independent)
8) Joseph Kishore (Socialist Equality Party)
9) Chase Oliver (Libertarian Party)
10) Jasmine Sherman (Green Party of Alaska)
11) Joel Skousen (Constitution Parties of Idaho, Utah, and Nevada)
12) Peter Sonski (American Solidarity Party)
13) Jill Stein (Green Party)
14) Randall Terry (Constitution Party)
15) Cornel West (independent)
16) Michael Wood (Prohibition Party)

Hopefully that list will grow - I'd love to see both Bill Stodden (Socialist Party USA) and Dennis Schuller (Legal Marijuana Now) get ballot access.

Fun fact - Legal Marijuana Now had ballot access, but Democrats screwed them over because 'democracy.' What a joke of a party.

The problem here is the GOP and Dems have a monopoly on the system and have made it nearly impossible for a third party or Independent candidate to win.

It's not about winning. I voted for Jill Stein in 2016 and Howie Hawkins in 2020. I didn't vote for them because I thought they would win, and that's not the bar third parties need to cross to gain viability. I voted for Stein because 5% of the total vote for third parties is better than 2%, and obviously 10% is better. These things take time, and the more people are disgusted by the Democratic and Republicans, and the more they actually vote for alternative candidates (as opposed to not voting, which, while valid, isn't, in my mind, useful), maybe we can move past the two party system.

In fact, it's the only way we can move past the two party system. It may never work, but continually voting for Republicans and Democrats almost got us a Trump v. Biden match-up, so obviously that's not working either.

[zombie]

Democrats have used the "most important election of your lifetime" line multiple times in the past. Obviously, I'm only thirty, but I know people who heard the same thing from Democrats back in the 1960's through the 1980's.

So the whole "vote Democratic for democracy" may be a post-Trump slogan (keep in mind, Democrats were one of the reasons Trump won in 2016), but the idea of having to vote Democratic, or else it's "a vote for the GOP" (again, mathematically false) has been really heavily leaned into since they started (incorrectly) blaming Gore's loss on Nader.

i feel like trump isn't as separated from the democrats as both sides make it out to be, so that tracks.

as for gore... i guess son of a vp (and president obviously) beats vp. no need to blame nader or anyone else.

[Jigsaw]

Democrats have used the "most important election of your lifetime" line multiple times in the past. Obviously, I'm only thirty, but I know people who heard the same thing from Democrats back in the 1960's through the 1980's.

So the whole "vote Democratic for democracy" may be a post-Trump slogan (keep in mind, Democrats were one of the reasons Trump won in 2016), but the idea of having to vote Democratic, or else it's "a vote for the GOP" (again, mathematically false) has been really heavily leaned into since they started (incorrectly) blaming Gore's loss on Nader.

i feel like trump isn't as separated from the democrats as both sides make it out to be, so that tracks.

as for gore... i guess son of a vp (and president obviously) beats vp. no need to blame nader or anyone else.

It's also important to note that more registered Democrats in Florida voted for Bush than did the total amount of Nader voters.

I'm not big on Reason.com (it's a Libertarian site), but this article is worth reading: https://reason.com/2016/08/03/ralph-nad ... -election/

"What that oft-cited factoid leaves out are the inconvenient truths laid out by Jim Hightower in Salon way back when, including the fact that only about 24,000 registered Democrats voted for Nader in Florida, whereas about 308,000 Democrats voted for (wait for it…) Bush! Further, approximately 191,000 self-identified "liberals" voted for Bush, as opposed to the fewer than 34,000 who went with Nader."

Now, to be clear, those Democrats had every right to vote for Bush if that's the candidate they thought was worth supporting, but it just shows that somehow Nader voters got the blame as opposed to the Democrats who went Bush.

[zombie]

keep in mind this was also during the whole "hanging chad" thing and his brother was governor in florida.

[Jigsaw]

keep in mind this was also during the whole "hanging chad" thing and his brother was governor in florida.

That reminds me, I don't know if you know Ani DiFranco, but she had this great line in her song "Self Evident"

"It don't take a weatherman
To look around and see the weather
Jeb said he'd deliver Florida, folks
And boy did he ever"

I lol every time.

[zombie]

keep in mind this was also during the whole "hanging chad" thing and his brother was governor in florida.

That reminds me, I don't know if you know Ani DiFranco, but she had this great line in her song "Self Evident"

"It don't take a weatherman
To look around and see the weather
Jeb said he'd deliver Florida, folks
And boy did he ever"

I lol every time.

i'm aware of ani difranco a little bit. i like a few of her songs. that one i'm not familiar with though. nice.

[Lazerus]

At least 16 independent or third party candidates are on at least one ballot.

1) Shiva Ayyadurai (independent)
2) Claudia De la Cruz (Party for Socialism and Liberation)
3) Lucifer “Justin Case” Everylove (independent)
4) Rachele Fruit (Socialist Workers Party)
5) Chris Garrity (independent)
6) Blake Huber (Approval Voting Party)
7) Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (independent)
8) Joseph Kishore (Socialist Equality Party)
9) Chase Oliver (Libertarian Party)
10) Jasmine Sherman (Green Party of Alaska)
11) Joel Skousen (Constitution Parties of Idaho, Utah, and Nevada)
12) Peter Sonski (American Solidarity Party)
13) Jill Stein (Green Party)
14) Randall Terry (Constitution Party)
15) Cornel West (independent)
16) Michael Wood (Prohibition Party)

Hopefully that list will grow - I'd love to see both Bill Stodden (Socialist Party USA) and Dennis Schuller (Legal Marijuana Now) get ballot access.

Fun fact - Legal Marijuana Now had ballot access, but Democrats screwed them over because 'democracy.' What a joke of a party.

The problem here is the GOP and Dems have a monopoly on the system and have made it nearly impossible for a third party or Independent candidate to win.

It's not about winning. I voted for Jill Stein in 2016 and Howie Hawkins in 2020. I didn't vote for them because I thought they would win, and that's not the bar third parties need to cross to gain viability. I voted for Stein because 5% of the total vote for third parties is better than 2%, and obviously 10% is better. These things take time, and the more people are disgusted by the Democratic and Republicans, and the more they actually vote for alternative candidates (as opposed to not voting, which, while valid, isn't, in my mind, useful), maybe we can move past the two party system.

In fact, it's the only way we can move past the two party system. It may never work, but continually voting for Republicans and Democrats almost got us a Trump v. Biden match-up, so obviously that's not working either.

I agree to an extent of what you are saying. The two party system is garbage but I don't see anything changing anytime soon.
I don't vote because it's a waste of my time and my time is valuable.

[Slaughterhouserock]

Democrats are clearly anti-democratic. I will keep repeating this and repeating this until I'm dead. To say that voting for Democrats is to vote for "democracy" is to say you have zero idea of what Democrats actually stand for.

Has anyone here actually said that? I think both parties only care about themselves, but democrats tend to be lesser of two evils.

[Jigsaw]

Democrats are clearly anti-democratic. I will keep repeating this and repeating this until I'm dead. To say that voting for Democrats is to vote for "democracy" is to say you have zero idea of what Democrats actually stand for.

Has anyone here actually said that? I think both parties only care about themselves, but democrats tend to be lesser of two evils.

No, not that I'm aware. I was more talking about the common statements I'm hearing online. Sorry, I should have made that more clear.

[Slaughterhouserock]

No, not that I'm aware. I was more talking about the common statements I'm hearing online. Sorry, I should have made that more clear.

Ah, ok. Thought I missed something.

[Jason]

I feel like Jiggy hates both parties with a bit more of a resounding disdain for the dems. lol

[zombie]

he hates the democrats more on how they fuck over smaller candidates and parties. but where does he stand on policy difference between the big two?

[Jason]

he hates the democrats more on how they fuck over smaller candidates and parties. but where does he stand on policy difference between the big two?

Depends on who's running for the opposite sides?

[zombie]

he hates the democrats more on how they fuck over smaller candidates and parties. but where does he stand on policy difference between the big two?

Depends on who's running for the opposite sides?

as far as degree and focus goes, sure.

[Jigsaw]

I feel like Jiggy hates both parties with a bit more of a resounding disdain for the dems. lol

Republicans are genrally all-around nutcases, even before Trump took over the party.

I'll say this much - I think that Trump's occasional isolationist messaging is a good way forward for the GOP, but you see the backlash it gets from the more traditional elements of the party (such as Nikki Haley).

Regardless, I think the disdain toward Democrats is because I honestly feel that most Republicans would be so easy to beat in an election, if only a competent leftist campaign was to be found. Now, I understand you may disagree with that premise, but a Democrat never should have lost against Trump to begin with.

But the Democrats are a failure of a party. Look at Harris and Walz - they have no policy whatsoever on Harris' campaign website. None. All they are running on is "We're not Trump."

It's a fucking joke that the Democrats are somehow going to protect us from Trump when the Democrats are largely the reason Trump won to begin with. I don't believe a word that they say.

[Jigsaw]

he hates the democrats more on how they fuck over smaller candidates and parties. but where does he stand on policy difference between the big two?

Foreign policy between the two is largely the same. As both parties are capitalist, neither fights for the economic policies I believe in. Domestically-speaking, I'll give you that Democrats are better, albeit they're so damn weak and spineless that it doesn't matter.

Why the hell in Obama's eight years did he never seriously try to legalize marijuana? Why did it take Joe Biden misspeaking to cause Obama to come out for gay marriage? Democrats might say some of the right things, but from everything that I've seen, they're absolutely not interested in actually fighting for them.

[zombie]

he hates the democrats more on how they fuck over smaller candidates and parties. but where does he stand on policy difference between the big two?

Foreign policy between the two is largely the same. As both parties are capitalist, neither fights for the economic policies I believe in. Domestically-speaking, I'll give you that Democrats are better, albeit they're so damn weak and spineless that it doesn't matter.

Why the hell in Obama's eight years did he never seriously try to legalize marijuana? Why did it take Joe Biden misspeaking to cause Obama to come out for gay marriage? Democrats might say some of the right things, but from everything that I've seen, they're absolutely not interested in actually fighting for them.

i can agree with a lot of that. tepid veneer of opposition to a lot of republican's or conservative policies and pandering to minorities of whatever kind because they are on the rise in the populace. it's like one is going mad and the other is asking please don't do that, in public.

[Jigsaw]

he hates the democrats more on how they fuck over smaller candidates and parties. but where does he stand on policy difference between the big two?

And on that first point, it is true that Democrats go after independent and third party candidates more, but Republicans certainly aren't above it.

Look at this piece of news - https://newjerseyglobe.com/presidential ... es-sonski/

The American Solidarity Party is a Catholic pro-life party. A Young Republican County organization challenged the petitions Sonski (the ASP nominee) gathered. Now, it's possible that even without being challenged, the petition would have been denied, but why challenge a petition to begin with? To remove competition, and now people in New Jersey, if they wanted to vote for Peter Sonski, may not have that option.*

*I don't know New Jersey laws revolving write-ins, which is why i say "may."

[Jigsaw]

he hates the democrats more on how they fuck over smaller candidates and parties. but where does he stand on policy difference between the big two?

Foreign policy between the two is largely the same. As both parties are capitalist, neither fights for the economic policies I believe in. Domestically-speaking, I'll give you that Democrats are better, albeit they're so damn weak and spineless that it doesn't matter.

Why the hell in Obama's eight years did he never seriously try to legalize marijuana? Why did it take Joe Biden misspeaking to cause Obama to come out for gay marriage? Democrats might say some of the right things, but from everything that I've seen, they're absolutely not interested in actually fighting for them.

i can agree with a lot of that. tepid veneer of opposition to a lot of republican's or conservative policies and pandering to minorities of whatever kind because they are on the rise in the populace. it's like one is going mad and the other is asking please don't do that, in public.

Remember what Clinton said to the bankers on Wall Street? "Cut it out."

These liberals and VBNMW people aren't remotely serious in my eyes. They were perfectly okay with a Biden v. Trump rematch, and that really says everything about the system that can be said.

[Lazerus]

I feel like Jiggy hates both parties with a bit more of a resounding disdain for the dems. lol

And he hates business ownership or any form of private enterprise as far as I can tell. lol