Joker

[Monster]

[DancesWithWerewolves]

Torn. The movie looks fantastic, yet I hate that it has no connection to the DC universe, it's it's own one shot unrelated film. Shame, because as I predicted, Joaquin is fucking brilliant casting.

Also not wild that that style of clown makeup is throughout, but eh.

I do dig the nod to the Romero suit color.

[Tiggnutz]

That won me over, anything to wash away the stain Jared Leto left.

[Reign in Blood]

That won me over, anything to wash away the stain Jared Leto left.

Haven't even watched the trailer yet and I feel that rash clearing up.

[showa58taro]

Where does it sit with the others, though. I’d it literally set apart? Looked interesting but looked a lot like Joker was a bit of a victim and antihero type guy. But maybe I’m misreading.

[Monster]

[Headhunter]

Saw this tonight.

I can see how a lot of people will LOVE this movie and I can see how a lot of people will HATE this movie. For me, it's a 7/10. So, it's modern day extremist Taxi Driver basically. They sold it as late 70s-early 80s Scorsese and that's clearly the biggest influence. The film wins when it wants to make its audience cringe at how out of touch Joaquin Phoenix is with reality. It's not a comic book/superhero movie whatsoever. It's an insane person going more and more and more and more insane. I think Joaquin did a good job, he necessarily carries the movie because he's in every scene. I don't see Best Actor stuff, but it is good work. This movie tries to dabble in a ton of contemporary political, social and economic issues and it just kinda dips its toes in all of them without striking gold anywhere.

I don't want to harp on the negatives too much because overall it was pretty good. I'll probably see it one more time but it's not one you'll see on TV and have to flip to. Go see it though.

On a side note, there was a heavy police presence outside the theater. I was unaware of the widespread concern about the Joker character inspiring nut jobs (because of Aurora, I'm guessing?), but honestly, if you watch this movie and you empathize with Joaquin's character to the point of inspiration, you're an idiot. And not even in a "like duh, obviously" way, the character just shouldn't have that effect. More pitiful than anything.

[DancesWithWerewolves]

Seeing it Sunday.

[showa58taro]

Weird fucking film. Not sure it’s even in a good way.

[showa58taro]

”The problem with Joker isn't that it's so different from what we've already seen; it's that it purports to explain what we've already seen and never comes close. It's a prequel to a story it bears no resemblance to, and the study of a character who never actually becomes that character.”

from https://www.cracked.com/article_26760_5 ... movie.html

Really sums up why I’m not sure it works as a film.

[DancesWithWerewolves]

That's really off the mark. It claims it wants to do something, but what Cracked claims is NOT what it's doing. If they interpretted that, then it's their own damned fault. It's not being a prequel to a movie that's already there. It's its own telling of a possible origin that's meant to be it's own unconnected thing. It's also a character study of someone becoming a bad person, so any empathy you feel in the beginning makes it tragic because no, he doesn't go Travis Bickle and becomes a hero, or Rupert Pupkin and become an ironic celebrity ala Airheads, he becomes the poster boy of all the misplaced anger and rage of bottom feeders in the city and just doesn't give a damn anymore. We watch someone with cards stacked so heinously against them until they completely crack, and it is a great watch. And yeah, by the end of the movie, he's the Joker. Since there's a ton of different interpretations of him (including in the comics), he's really not that far off from some of the darker versions, like in an Elseworlds comic (which this movie being completely seperate is doing, a completely out of comic continuity, alternate versions of exisiting characters in one-off tales).

I know there's a lot that's been made of it's comparisons to Taxi Driver and The King of Comedy...but I also see parallels to 1980's Maniac, where our protagonist clearly has issues that could give the audience a false sense of empathy, but they are very bad people and do very bad things, and that makes some critics uncomfortable following them around the whole time (the kind that want to be censors, rather than critics, something VERY common these days). For all the complaints about gun violence against the movie, there's surprisingly very little actual gun violence in the movie, especially compaired to so much more this year alone.

My only real issue, a week after watching it to let it settle, is that it shouldn't have been set so far back in Gotham history. Like, it could've been while Bruce was out in the world training, and this was in that gap where cops were becoming even more corrupt and the city gone seedier. That way, when Bruce becomes Batman, Joker won't be geriatric So yeah, while I'm happy Joker didn't *technically* kill the Waynes, he still did via seperation game (and in a way I totally called during the trailers when discussing with Crazy Ralph, so I can't wait for him to finally watch so I can go "i told ya so!" ) I know the aim was to do alternate stuff, which often does do alternate time periods, but I know WB is always looking at sequel potential just to compete and if it hadn't included the Waynes, it could easily blend into a continuity.

Also makes me question how much of the film is in his head, because of the gag in the comic is he remembers his history one way, and another day it's a different way.

[showa58taro]

As in we see Joaquin and Bats (R-Pats?) in a scene and it turns out the entire film I just watched was in his head?

That would be so much dumber for my money. It’s bad enough the “twist” with Beetz was visible from the moment he sees her in a lift. If the whole film was just one fun story he tells himself as to why he’s the Joker that’s just awful.

I think the point around a film that isn’t seeing it up right is that the ages don’t work if he’s going to ever actually face Batman. This film basically eliminates that. Although to be honest it also fails at the key Joker concept of being clever. This guy is never going to mastermind anything. He’s just a remorseless creep with a laugh by the end.

[DancesWithWerewolves]

As in we see Joaquin and Bats (R-Pats?) in a scene and it turns out the entire film I just watched was in his head?

That would be so much dumber for my money. It’s bad enough the “twist” with Beetz was visible from the moment he sees her in a lift. If the whole film was just one fun story he tells himself as to why he’s the Joker that’s just awful.

I think the point around a film that isn’t seeing it up right is that the ages don’t work if he’s going to ever actually face Batman. This film basically eliminates that. Although to be honest it also fails at the key Joker concept of being clever. This guy is never going to mastermind anything. He’s just a remorseless creep with a laugh by the end.

Yeah, it could easily turn out dumber if they went that way, depending on how it was handled. Could feel like a cop out. I wouldn't mind if certain things were false, but if the whole movie? Yeesh.

Joker's key concept isn't being clever. He can be clever, and will mastermind, but all versions of his origin...he was never clever at the start. He was always pathetic and shit never worked out. (ignoring the Burton origin, which is very different from basically all others lol ).

Side note: just bought the score the other night, and loving it just as I did in the movie. Didn't know it was the same guy who scored Sicario 2. Cool. This makes 2 films from this year that has a music score I really like, which out of 30 movies so far, that's not a good ratio (the other being Abel's work on Us)

[DancesWithWerewolves]

I was annoyed people were bringing their small children to the movie though. Just as annoyed as I was when they brought them to any R rated horror movie.

[showa58taro]

I was annoyed people were bringing their small children to the movie though. Just as annoyed as I was when they brought them to any R rated horror movie.

Jesus. Otho g about that film was child friendly. Did they misinterpret the clown pictures?!

[Reign in Blood]

I thought a selling point for this flick was the fact if he was THE Joker was irrelevant?

[showa58taro]

If he’s just A joker who then inspires a future THE Joker that feels almost dumber