Trumpcare 2.1

[showa58taro]

I mean, you guys have $300 BILLION per year on prescriptions.

70% take 1 prescription drugs
50% take 2
4 Billion prescriptiosn were issued in one year.

That's a lot of money. That is definitely NOT what we see here.

[Headhunter]

- True, the US needs to get away from a pharma-culture. But there are still needs, medically, that are based on medication and drugs. A proper reassessment of mental health in the US would be welcome though.

is that something that is limited to america, really? i'm not trying to be dismissive. it feels like it's bigger than that though?

For some perspective, only Americans seem to not find our endless commercials advertising prescription drugs strange.

[zombie]

- True, the US needs to get away from a pharma-culture. But there are still needs, medically, that are based on medication and drugs. A proper reassessment of mental health in the US would be welcome though.

is that something that is limited to america, really? i'm not trying to be dismissive. it feels like it's bigger than that though?

I think it is much much worse in the US than in Sweden or the UK or Japan. That's all I can speak to really. Because you guys will get prescribed a lot more things (including things like Ritalin for ADHD, for example) than I'm aware here. Which makes sense, here it's all publically funded and you try not to give too much stuff. There, you paid top dollar for insurance, you want all the good stuff...

you don't have your drug companies pushing for antidepressants or anti-anxiety drugs onto everyone? so, it's just a symptom of our system in this country, then? or at least as far as you can tell. obviously you can't speak for everywhere.

I don't think they can do. I think there are some pretty good rules against these kind of payments. At the very least, it is not something that seems to affect the society, as I don't know that these things happen in any degree of regularity over here. it does happen though. I am sure about 2-3 years ago there was some kind of finding that doctors and nurses had links to pharmaceutical companies. Something like £200M or something like that, so not insignificant. But the system remains in place with restrictions on what you can be prescribed and how you are prescribed it. There is just no scope for people to just prescribe endless doses without it being absolutely necessary. That's what I've seen so far.

i don't think medicine should be treated like a business or product in the same way as t-shirts or soft drinks or whatever. that's what this is, seemingly.

[showa58taro]

I mean, you guys have $300 BILLION per year on prescriptions.

70% take 1 prescription drugs
50% take 2
4 Billion prescriptiosn were issued in one year.

That's a lot of money. That is definitely NOT what we see here.

The industry spent $4 Billion on direct marketing to consumers.

It spent $24 Billion on marketing to health-care providers. The sheer level of marketing in most of the pharmaceutical companies eclipses their R&D spend. They basically aren't researching new stuff that is good at the same page as trying to sell you shit, or sell your doctor shit to give to you because you trust them and assume they are doing it for the right reasons, rather than the bonus cheques they get from pharmaceutical companies.

I think that this issue, and the culture that pharmaceutical companies are pushing when it comes to their "sales team" or "reps" is the massive issue that is more worrisome for the US than anything I've seen elsewhere.

[showa58taro]

- True, the US needs to get away from a pharma-culture. But there are still needs, medically, that are based on medication and drugs. A proper reassessment of mental health in the US would be welcome though.

is that something that is limited to america, really? i'm not trying to be dismissive. it feels like it's bigger than that though?

For some perspective, only Americans seem to not find our endless commercials advertising prescription drugs strange.

Actually, that is true. I don't think in the UK you are allowed to have an advertisement that says "Ask your doctor" or whatever. Because... what the fuck? Have a problem, go see someone, and they get to decide what you need. You don't get to go there with a suggestion-list...

[Foo]

http://www.businessinsider.com/countrie ... ers-2016-2

US is tops, but the others are rapidly gaining.

It is absolutely ridiculous to think one in ten needs these pills. The only thing worse is calling them "treatment".

[showa58taro]

- True, the US needs to get away from a pharma-culture. But there are still needs, medically, that are based on medication and drugs. A proper reassessment of mental health in the US would be welcome though.

is that something that is limited to america, really? i'm not trying to be dismissive. it feels like it's bigger than that though?

I think it is much much worse in the US than in Sweden or the UK or Japan. That's all I can speak to really. Because you guys will get prescribed a lot more things (including things like Ritalin for ADHD, for example) than I'm aware here. Which makes sense, here it's all publically funded and you try not to give too much stuff. There, you paid top dollar for insurance, you want all the good stuff...

you don't have your drug companies pushing for antidepressants or anti-anxiety drugs onto everyone? so, it's just a symptom of our system in this country, then? or at least as far as you can tell. obviously you can't speak for everywhere.

I don't think they can do. I think there are some pretty good rules against these kind of payments. At the very least, it is not something that seems to affect the society, as I don't know that these things happen in any degree of regularity over here. it does happen though. I am sure about 2-3 years ago there was some kind of finding that doctors and nurses had links to pharmaceutical companies. Something like £200M or something like that, so not insignificant. But the system remains in place with restrictions on what you can be prescribed and how you are prescribed it. There is just no scope for people to just prescribe endless doses without it being absolutely necessary. That's what I've seen so far.

i don't think medicine should be treated like a business or product in the same way as t-shirts or soft drinks or whatever. that's what this is, seemingly.

It is exactly that, treated like a business and seeking in every case to increase profits and sales against its competitors.

[zombie]

- True, the US needs to get away from a pharma-culture. But there are still needs, medically, that are based on medication and drugs. A proper reassessment of mental health in the US would be welcome though.

is that something that is limited to america, really? i'm not trying to be dismissive. it feels like it's bigger than that though?

For some perspective, only Americans seem to not find our endless commercials advertising prescription drugs strange.

Actually, that is true. I don't think in the UK you are allowed to have an advertisement that says "Ask your doctor" or whatever. Because... what the fuck? Have a problem, go see someone, and they get to decide what you need. You don't get to go there with a suggestion-list...

that is a good point. that is so backwards. and so, if the doctor says you don't need it. then you go to find a doctor that will say yes, because the commercial said you may need it. they know better than the doctor, somehow. meh.

[showa58taro]

- True, the US needs to get away from a pharma-culture. But there are still needs, medically, that are based on medication and drugs. A proper reassessment of mental health in the US would be welcome though.

is that something that is limited to america, really? i'm not trying to be dismissive. it feels like it's bigger than that though?

For some perspective, only Americans seem to not find our endless commercials advertising prescription drugs strange.

Actually, that is true. I don't think in the UK you are allowed to have an advertisement that says "Ask your doctor" or whatever. Because... what the fuck? Have a problem, go see someone, and they get to decide what you need. You don't get to go there with a suggestion-list...

that is a good point. that is so backwards. and so, if the doctor says you don't need it. then you go to find a doctor that will say yes, because the commercial said you may need it. they know better than the doctor, somehow. meh.

Presumably so. I mean, for reference, I am absolutely certain that we have Viagra or its equivalent in the UK, I don't see how we couldn't, but I have never once seen a single advert for it.

In the US when I've visited, I seem to see this kind of advert a few times per day.

[Foo]

Doctors, nurses, hospitals, pharma companies, here and in every part of the world are in business to make money. Why we act otherwise blows my mind.

[showa58taro]

Doctors, nurses, hospitals, pharma companies, here and in every part of the world are in business to make money. Why we act otherwise blows my mind.

Maybe because hospitals are not in most of Europe? Because you can't make money when you are basically just on a budget and have to make it work.

Doctors and Nurses are expecting to be paid fairly. But often they also tend to have better motivations than just cash. Because there's a lot more to that job than the money.

Pharma companies are definitely in it for the money. but how much you let them influence things is a different story.

[Foo]

We also have many advertisements geared towards people getting on disability.

[zombie]

Doctors, nurses, hospitals, pharma companies, here and in every part of the world are in business to make money. Why we act otherwise blows my mind.

you can make money without being manipulative. manipulation should not be a part of medicine. it's not fast food. it's not movies. it's not t-shirts. it's medicine.

if this was about a surgical procedure, rather than a pill, would you still be advocating about it's a business. let it be a business?

[showa58taro]

We also have many advertisements geared towards people getting on disability.

You have advertisements for getting on Disability??? Seriously?

[Foo]

Doctors, nurses, hospitals, pharma companies, here and in every part of the world are in business to make money. Why we act otherwise blows my mind.

Maybe because hospitals are not in most of Europe? Because you can't make money when you are basically just on a budget and have to make it work.

Doctors and Nurses are expecting to be paid fairly. But often they also tend to have better motivations than just cash. Because there's a lot more to that job than the money.

Pharma companies are definitely in it for the money. but how much you let them influence things is a different story.

Everyone is in it for the money. Don't kid yourself.

[Foo]

http://blog.disabilitycanhappen.org/top ... isability/

"Mental Disorders: During a given year, about 26 percent of the adult population are diagnosed with one or more metal disorder. No wonder they account for nearly 10 percent of long-term disabilities."

Think about those numbers for a moment.

[Foo]

We also have many advertisements geared towards people getting on disability.

You have advertisements for getting on Disability??? Seriously?

Yup, all day long.

[zombie]

http://blog.disabilitycanhappen.org/top ... isability/

"Mental Disorders: During a given year, about 26 percent of the adult population are diagnosed with one or more metal disorder. No wonder they account for nearly 10 percent of long-term disabilities."

Think about those numbers for a moment.

in a lot of cases, they're diagnosed that way, to give them a pill or something. that's manipulation. but it's okay, cause it's a business and people want to make money?

[showa58taro]

Doctors, nurses, hospitals, pharma companies, here and in every part of the world are in business to make money. Why we act otherwise blows my mind.

Maybe because hospitals are not in most of Europe? Because you can't make money when you are basically just on a budget and have to make it work.

Doctors and Nurses are expecting to be paid fairly. But often they also tend to have better motivations than just cash. Because there's a lot more to that job than the money.

Pharma companies are definitely in it for the money. but how much you let them influence things is a different story.

Everyone is in it for the money. Don't kid yourself.

Again, Hospitals in Europe can't be "in it for the money" as they are allocated a budget and have to make it work, and then measured against health metrics. They can't be "in it for the money" as they can't generate revenues.

[showa58taro]

We also have many advertisements geared towards people getting on disability.

You have advertisements for getting on Disability??? Seriously?

Yup, all day long.

Fuck me, that's depressing. And so wrong. Again, if you can't work, you should get disability. And you should apply for it. but you'd know if you weren't able to work, it isn't a grey zone. and it definitely shouldn't be easy to get on.