Reign in Blood wrote:
In the wake of Brexit, maybe? As in UK specific. But Europe in general Seb has called our left weak sauce and I know they want the government to take like 70% of their income and just hope they know what to do best with it. Because politicians are brilliant and government is good and always know what's best.
Greece is clapping, right now, btw.
i think the government should be accountable to the people that put into it. but where i see a problem is saying that we should have no government. no taxes. no regulations. etc. i don't agree with that at all. and i'm not for equality of outcome either. you work harder, and you should benefit more than someone who doesn't for whatever reason.
if you're saying that seb, and most other uk / europe liberals feel that government shouldn't be accountable at all, that's garbage. i don't agree with that kind of mindset. we definitely need oversight with that kind of thing.
Social progressives might well be further to the extreme for you. Actual political left-right, you guys are just different shades of right wing compared to Europe.
showa58taro wrote:Social progressives might well be further to the extreme for you. Actual political left-right, you guys are just different shades of right wing compared to Europe.
so what does true left look like, out of curiosity?
You should've seen the Brexit protesters after they voted to leave, Zomb. Young white cucks holding "Old white people, just die already" signs. You could taste the European globalist liberal tears from here, and we're only a world away. Probably more entertaining than the liberals in America when Hillary lost the election, but I will give it to the Hillary liberals just out of bias and the fact that that election had more impact here. That's not to say all liberal tears aren't created equal, though.
showa58taro wrote:Social progressives might well be further to the extreme for you. Actual political left-right, you guys are just different shades of right wing compared to Europe.
so what does true left look like, out of curiosity?
Universal healthcare, social security, state pension, nationalized infrastructute and transport, unionized workforce, high taxes to ensure funding of state services and security funds, lowering of income inequality, prison geared at rehabilitation high minimum wage, and proportional parliamentary systems that favour consensus politics.
showa58taro wrote:Social progressives might well be further to the extreme for you. Actual political left-right, you guys are just different shades of right wing compared to Europe.
so what does true left look like, out of curiosity?
Universal healthcare, social security, state pension, nationalized infrastructute and transport, unionized workforce, high taxes to ensure funding of state services and security funds, lowering of income inequality, prison geared at rehabilitation high minimum wage, and proportional parliamentary systems that favour consensus politics.
showa58taro wrote:Social progressives might well be further to the extreme for you. Actual political left-right, you guys are just different shades of right wing compared to Europe.
so what does true left look like, out of curiosity?
Universal healthcare, social security, state pension, nationalized infrastructute and transport, unionized workforce, high taxes to ensure funding of state services and security funds, lowering of income inequality, prison geared at rehabilitation high minimum wage, and proportional parliamentary systems that favour consensus politics.
Broadly speaking.
lowering of income inequality... how so?
It's like communism light. Rich pay more in taxes and poor get more direct benefit in the form of housing assistance, schools, etc. seeking to redistribute income inequality where possible.
showa58taro wrote:Social progressives might well be further to the extreme for you. Actual political left-right, you guys are just different shades of right wing compared to Europe.
so what does true left look like, out of curiosity?
Universal healthcare, social security, state pension, nationalized infrastructute and transport, unionized workforce, high taxes to ensure funding of state services and security funds, lowering of income inequality, prison geared at rehabilitation high minimum wage, and proportional parliamentary systems that favour consensus politics.
Broadly speaking.
lowering of income inequality... how so?
It's like communism light. Rich pay more in taxes and poor get more direct benefit in the form of housing assistance, schools, etc. seeking to redistribute income inequality where possible.
as long as you encourage working (or going to college, to have a better chance at work), rather than collecting benefits, that seems like it could be a decent system.
showa58taro wrote:Social progressives might well be further to the extreme for you. Actual political left-right, you guys are just different shades of right wing compared to Europe.
so what does true left look like, out of curiosity?
Universal healthcare, social security, state pension, nationalized infrastructute and transport, unionized workforce, high taxes to ensure funding of state services and security funds, lowering of income inequality, prison geared at rehabilitation high minimum wage, and proportional parliamentary systems that favour consensus politics.
Broadly speaking.
lowering of income inequality... how so?
It's like communism light. Rich pay more in taxes and poor get more direct benefit in the form of housing assistance, schools, etc. seeking to redistribute income inequality where possible.
as long as you encourage working (or going to college, to have a better chance at work), rather than collecting benefits, that seems like it could be a decent system.
That is the goal. An egalitarian society but with duty-bound liberalism at its center.
showa58taro wrote:Social progressives might well be further to the extreme for you. Actual political left-right, you guys are just different shades of right wing compared to Europe.
so what does true left look like, out of curiosity?
Universal healthcare, social security, state pension, nationalized infrastructute and transport, unionized workforce, high taxes to ensure funding of state services and security funds, lowering of income inequality, prison geared at rehabilitation high minimum wage, and proportional parliamentary systems that favour consensus politics.
Broadly speaking.
lowering of income inequality... how so?
It's like communism light. Rich pay more in taxes and poor get more direct benefit in the form of housing assistance, schools, etc. seeking to redistribute income inequality where possible.
showa58taro wrote:Social progressives might well be further to the extreme for you. Actual political left-right, you guys are just different shades of right wing compared to Europe.
so what does true left look like, out of curiosity?
Universal healthcare, social security, state pension, nationalized infrastructute and transport, unionized workforce, high taxes to ensure funding of state services and security funds, lowering of income inequality, prison geared at rehabilitation high minimum wage, and proportional parliamentary systems that favour consensus politics.
Broadly speaking.
lowering of income inequality... how so?
It's like communism light. Rich pay more in taxes and poor get more direct benefit in the form of housing assistance, schools, etc. seeking to redistribute income inequality where possible.
Loser culture. Little incentive to achieve.
if everyone is contributing, it takes weight off of everyone else.
showa58taro wrote:Social progressives might well be further to the extreme for you. Actual political left-right, you guys are just different shades of right wing compared to Europe.
so what does true left look like, out of curiosity?
Universal healthcare, social security, state pension, nationalized infrastructute and transport, unionized workforce, high taxes to ensure funding of state services and security funds, lowering of income inequality, prison geared at rehabilitation high minimum wage, and proportional parliamentary systems that favour consensus politics.
Broadly speaking.
lowering of income inequality... how so?
It's like communism light. Rich pay more in taxes and poor get more direct benefit in the form of housing assistance, schools, etc. seeking to redistribute income inequality where possible.
Loser culture. Little incentive to achieve.
if everyone is contributing, it takes weight off of everyone else.
They don't contribute more now. Less and less contribute as the welfare state grows.
Foo wrote:
They don't contribute more now. Less and less contribute as the welfare state grows.
the discussion was not about welfare or collecting benefits, but more about encouraging work and knowledge to lead to work.
if it was required to "volunteer" work for a given number of hours each month, in return for benefits, while also encouraging finding employment, this would not be so much of an issue.
showa58taro wrote:Social progressives might well be further to the extreme for you. Actual political left-right, you guys are just different shades of right wing compared to Europe.
so what does true left look like, out of curiosity?
Universal healthcare, social security, state pension, nationalized infrastructute and transport, unionized workforce, high taxes to ensure funding of state services and security funds, lowering of income inequality, prison geared at rehabilitation high minimum wage, and proportional parliamentary systems that favour consensus politics.
Broadly speaking.
lowering of income inequality... how so?
It's like communism light. Rich pay more in taxes and poor get more direct benefit in the form of housing assistance, schools, etc. seeking to redistribute income inequality where possible.
Foo wrote:
They don't contribute more now. Less and less contribute as the welfare state grows.
the discussion was not about welfare or collecting benefits, but more about encouraging work and knowledge to lead to work.
if it was required to "volunteer" work for a given number of hours each month, in return for benefits, while also encouraging finding employment, this would not be so much of an issue.
Why do I get the idea that if this was actually proposed by Republicans, as they have done numerous times, you would suddenly swing far left with the same leftist rhetoric that always keeps "work for welfare" programs off the table?
Not too mention, the programs are not productive anyway because it if glorified babysitting of a bunch of losers just there doing the bare minimum so the checks keep coming. It is the adult equivalent of the shitty kids in school just there playing out the string.
Foo wrote:
They don't contribute more now. Less and less contribute as the welfare state grows.
the discussion was not about welfare or collecting benefits, but more about encouraging work and knowledge to lead to work.
if it was required to "volunteer" work for a given number of hours each month, in return for benefits, while also encouraging finding employment, this would not be so much of an issue.
Why do I get the idea that if this was actually proposed by Republicans, as they have done numerous times, you would suddenly swing far left with the same leftist rhetoric that always keeps "work for welfare" programs off the table?
Not too mention, the programs are not productive anyway because it if glorified babysitting of a bunch of losers just there doing the bare minimum so the checks keep coming. It is the adult equivalent of the shitty kids in school just there playing out the string.
why do you always have to assume that i can't think for myself and support things favored by republicans?
it is productive. you have people working who would not be working otherwise. and it gets their foot in the door to finding employment, potentially.
showa58taro wrote:Social progressives might well be further to the extreme for you. Actual political left-right, you guys are just different shades of right wing compared to Europe.
so what does true left look like, out of curiosity?
Universal healthcare, social security, state pension, nationalized infrastructute and transport, unionized workforce, high taxes to ensure funding of state services and security funds, lowering of income inequality, prison geared at rehabilitation high minimum wage, and proportional parliamentary systems that favour consensus politics.
Broadly speaking.
lowering of income inequality... how so?
It's like communism light. Rich pay more in taxes and poor get more direct benefit in the form of housing assistance, schools, etc. seeking to redistribute income inequality where possible.
Loser culture. Little incentive to achieve.
Tell that to all the people achieving amazing things. Why are there no incentives to achieve in a compassionate society that cares for eachoher?
i don't agree with that kind of mindset. we definitely need oversight with that kind of thing.
