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How much should the average guy have to give up? Is it really prudent to not use available resources?

Earth can be wiped on a moment by a small asteroid. A volcanic eruption can do more than hundreds of years of manufacturing. A tiny shift in earths orbit can make it uninhabitablely hot or cold.

Foo wrote:The science behind it is corrupt. It is about money. Al Gore has turned it into a $300 M four tune and many others, including con men like Elon Musk have made billions off the scam.

At best the science is guesswork. At worst it is deliberate fraud.

Hyperbolic statements about "the warmest year ever!" are designed to scare people. We know that temperate and cold regions were once tropical, but that is dismissed. Before there was climate change there was global warming, before that, there was global cooling. In the 1970s they were predicting massive food shortages due to weather. It is all lies spread by those opportunists positioned to profit.

i was hoping for some kind of source to cite, or science or something. but yeah, politicians can be manipulative about their agenda. *shrug*

Reign in Blood wrote:What is the creationist angle, exactly? Just their lack of believing certain things of science? I would think that whether you believed God created us or we evolved from dung, the core of the argument is do humans have an impact on the environment/climate. Well yeah, the question is how much.

The fact that a lot of people in mostly rural areas of this country genuinely believe the Earth is 10,000 years old is kind of a non-starter. Those people contribute a lot to the Republican base and that's very much in the mind of leaders who tip toe the issue.

Foo wrote:How much should the average guy have to give up? Is it really prudent to not use available resources?

Earth can be wiped on a moment by a small asteroid. A volcanic eruption can do more than hundreds of years of manufacturing. A tiny shift in earths orbit can make it uninhabitablely hot or cold.

and now, a hypothetical situation could kill us all anyways, so why care about this.... i get the scope of your argument, we can move on.

Foo wrote:How much should the average guy have to give up? Is it really prudent to not use available resources?

Earth can be wiped on a moment by a small asteroid. A volcanic eruption can do more than hundreds of years of manufacturing. A tiny shift in earths orbit can make it uninhabitablely hot or cold.

How much are you willing to give up for a security issue of global proportions?

Headhunter wrote:

Foo wrote:How much should the average guy have to give up? Is it really prudent to not use available resources?

Earth can be wiped on a moment by a small asteroid. A volcanic eruption can do more than hundreds of years of manufacturing. A tiny shift in earths orbit can make it uninhabitablely hot or cold.

How much are you willing to give up for a security issue of global proportions?

Do you have an example?

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote: Climate change is bullshit.

how do you back that up?

He doesn't care, that's how.

well, if it is just him shooting off his mouth, then fair enough. if he actually has something legitimate to offer, i wanna know.

but until then i'll take this the same way i would if someone came in and said "round earth is bullshit".

Of course he doesn't have something legitimate to offer. There is literally nothing legitimate on offer here. Hence why even the Trump-team goes with clichéd shit arguments like "nobody is disputing the science, we just want to craft policy to address things fairly" which is Politician-speak for "We don't believe this shit, we're just going to not piss everyone off whilst we sit on our hands"

The one saving grace in all this is that loads of companies and states will continue with their green initiative, because unlike the dinosaur theory that coal is somehow "the future" for the US, these guys get that the green initiatives are also profitable initiatives where the money is, alongside the help for the globe. Ultimately, Coal will continue to fall by the wayside as will shitty vehicles and other key carbon emitters. Because the world is advancing. The coal era won't end because of a lack of coal anymore than the Stone Age was because people ran out of stones. You don't stop progress, but you can sit idly by and watch it leave you behind.

Foo wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Foo wrote:How much should the average guy have to give up? Is it really prudent to not use available resources?

Earth can be wiped on a moment by a small asteroid. A volcanic eruption can do more than hundreds of years of manufacturing. A tiny shift in earths orbit can make it uninhabitablely hot or cold.

How much are you willing to give up for a security issue of global proportions?

Do you have an example?

Whatever you think is the biggest threat to humans in the next century, really. Probably something that will require a full scale military and humanitarian response, right?

Headhunter wrote:

Reign in Blood wrote:What is the creationist angle, exactly? Just their lack of believing certain things of science? I would think that whether you believed God created us or we evolved from dung, the core of the argument is do humans have an impact on the environment/climate. Well yeah, the question is how much.

The fact that a lot of people in mostly rural areas of this country genuinely believe the Earth is 10,000 years old is kind of a non-starter. Those people contribute a lot to the Republican base and that's very much in the mind of leaders who tip toe the issue.

Hmm, maybe it is more of the rural base then. Because I have these conversations with peeps of different religious background from time to time, and if left to our own devices, my stance is I don't believe an all out war will wipe us out, it may contribute, but ultimately we will run this fucking planet into the ground and that will be our undoing, the apocalypse if you will. None seem to disagree. We can't keep this shit up forever, all the billions inhabiting it and the waste and pollution and everything along with it. Mother Earth will tap out eventually.

Which is why zombs is working on our Total Recall trip to Mars as we speak! Kuato and I will be BFFs.

Reign in Blood wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Reign in Blood wrote:What is the creationist angle, exactly? Just their lack of believing certain things of science? I would think that whether you believed God created us or we evolved from dung, the core of the argument is do humans have an impact on the environment/climate. Well yeah, the question is how much.

The fact that a lot of people in mostly rural areas of this country genuinely believe the Earth is 10,000 years old is kind of a non-starter. Those people contribute a lot to the Republican base and that's very much in the mind of leaders who tip toe the issue.

Hmm, maybe it is more of the rural base then. Because I have these conversations with peeps of different religious background from time to time, and if left to our own devices, my stance is I don't believe an all out war will wipe us out, it may contribute, but ultimately we will run this fucking planet into the ground and that will be our undoing, the apocalypse if you will. None seem to disagree. We can't keep this shit up forever, all the billions inhabiting it and the waste and pollution and everything along with it. Mother Earth will tap out eventually.

Which is why zombs is working on our Total Recall trip to Mars as we speak! Kuato and I will be BFFs.

It's definitely an urban/rural thing because I've had the same experiences. But it's easy to forget just how big the rural population in this country is, because from every poll I've ever looked at, the number of people in this country think the Earth was created by God 10,000 years ago is at least 30%. Not just created by God, created by God 10,000 years ago. Nothing says "two Americas" like that. Mind you, that number drops significantly every generation and figures to be on the total fringes of society eventually but it's still ever present in America, and thus in our politics.

Most Christians in America don't interpret the Bible at face value of course. To me, it's always been clear that the fantastic stories in the Bible were written for the purpose of instilling virtues in its readers. Best way to get that authentic reaction that's going to make people want to take on the characteristics that make for a positive contributor to society is to tell some powerful and badass stories about memorable figures and events. People are still inspired today by the characters we read about in great books or see in great movies, so they understood human psychology pretty well.

City versus rural people have different views because city people don't even realize what is involved in getting them their food, fuel, water, building materials, etc.

They sit their like ding a lings telling farmers, miners, etc. how they should be doing things despite never doing it themselves.

Headhunter wrote:Most Christians in America don't interpret the Bible at face value of course. To me, it's always been clear that the fantastic stories in the Bible were written for the purpose of instilling virtues in its readers. Best way to get that authentic reaction that's going to make people want to take on the characteristics that make for a positive contributor to society is to tell some powerful and badass stories about memorable figures and events. People are still inspired today by the characters we read about in great books or see in great movies, so they understood human psychology pretty well.

I would agree. And maybe because we are so divided is because we have none of that now? Reagan's 80's fucking ruled with horror movies of that era, action movies with Arnold, Stallone, Van Damme. The 90's easily swelled out of all fucking things. It hit a groove in the late 90's with the rise of nu-metal and Fight Club type shit being on a pulse. And then the early 2000's after 9/11 has some shit, but generally meh.

Reign in Blood wrote:

Headhunter wrote:Most Christians in America don't interpret the Bible at face value of course. To me, it's always been clear that the fantastic stories in the Bible were written for the purpose of instilling virtues in its readers. Best way to get that authentic reaction that's going to make people want to take on the characteristics that make for a positive contributor to society is to tell some powerful and badass stories about memorable figures and events. People are still inspired today by the characters we read about in great books or see in great movies, so they understood human psychology pretty well.

I would agree. And maybe because we are so divided is because we have none of that now? Reagan's 80's fucking ruled with horror movies of that era, action movies with Arnold, Stallone, Van Damme. The 90's easily swelled out of all fucking things. It hit a groove in the late 90's with the rise of nu-metal and Fight Club type shit being on a pulse. And then the early 2000's after 9/11 has some shit, but generally meh.

I think you might be onto something there. Even the great TV, books, movies we consume today seem to be on the whole trending towards very nihilistic...devoid of wanting to really explore and celebrate the human spirit.

Foo wrote:City versus rural people have different views because city people don't even realize what is involved in getting them their food, fuel, water, building materials, etc.

They sit their like ding a lings telling farmers, miners, etc. how they should be doing things despite never doing it themselves.

Somewhat fair assessment.

Doesn't mean the urban folks should be held accountable for things they believe that are blatantly false, though.

We've definitely gotten to a point where the demand is for our media to show us fucked up people fucking up. It's everywhere and the current generation just can't get enough of it. Too obsessed with witnessing the struggle to celebrate actual human triumphs. Great men and women doing great things.

Headhunter wrote:

Reign in Blood wrote:

Headhunter wrote:Most Christians in America don't interpret the Bible at face value of course. To me, it's always been clear that the fantastic stories in the Bible were written for the purpose of instilling virtues in its readers. Best way to get that authentic reaction that's going to make people want to take on the characteristics that make for a positive contributor to society is to tell some powerful and badass stories about memorable figures and events. People are still inspired today by the characters we read about in great books or see in great movies, so they understood human psychology pretty well.

I would agree. And maybe because we are so divided is because we have none of that now? Reagan's 80's fucking ruled with horror movies of that era, action movies with Arnold, Stallone, Van Damme. The 90's easily swelled out of all fucking things. It hit a groove in the late 90's with the rise of nu-metal and Fight Club type shit being on a pulse. And then the early 2000's after 9/11 has some shit, but generally meh.

I think you might be onto something there. Even the great TV, books, movies we consume today seem to be on the whole trending towards very nihilistic...devoid of wanting to really explore and celebrate the human spirit.

you don't find that the superhero movies (particularly those by disney/marvel. though wonderwoman seems to be that way too, based on reviews) are about celebrating human spirit in a way? or is it too superficial, too commercial in your opinion?

also, i don't see fight club or nu-metal particularly being about great people being great, or the triumph of human spirit. that very much seems cynical and a little nihilistic too.

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Reign in Blood wrote:

Headhunter wrote:Most Christians in America don't interpret the Bible at face value of course. To me, it's always been clear that the fantastic stories in the Bible were written for the purpose of instilling virtues in its readers. Best way to get that authentic reaction that's going to make people want to take on the characteristics that make for a positive contributor to society is to tell some powerful and badass stories about memorable figures and events. People are still inspired today by the characters we read about in great books or see in great movies, so they understood human psychology pretty well.

I would agree. And maybe because we are so divided is because we have none of that now? Reagan's 80's fucking ruled with horror movies of that era, action movies with Arnold, Stallone, Van Damme. The 90's easily swelled out of all fucking things. It hit a groove in the late 90's with the rise of nu-metal and Fight Club type shit being on a pulse. And then the early 2000's after 9/11 has some shit, but generally meh.

I think you might be onto something there. Even the great TV, books, movies we consume today seem to be on the whole trending towards very nihilistic...devoid of wanting to really explore and celebrate the human spirit.

you don't find that the superhero movies (particularly those by disney/marvel. though wonderwoman seems to be that way too, based on reviews) are about celebrating human spirit in a way? or is it too superficial, too commercial in your opinion?

I think you can make a case that Wonder Woman is capable of having that far-reaching impact on young girls, but other than that I think the market is both too superficial and too over-saturated at this point. Superhero movie releases don't have the same feel they would have even 10 years ago.

zombie wrote:also, i don't see fight club or nu-metal particularly being about great people being great, or the triumph of human spirit. that very much seems cynical and a little nihilistic too.

To be fair, those points were mine and those examples were his.