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Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:
well, i am not interested in having words put into my mouth.

Is this the new victimization thing or something? Was not aware anyone was doing that.

"Not sure why any American would oppose efforts aimed at creating either fair trade or even trade." <-- seb is not american. no one else is discussing this at all. and so i'm not opposing anything with this issue. just asking question and clarification.

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:
well, i am not interested in having words put into my mouth.

Is this the new victimization thing or something? Was not aware anyone was doing that.

"Not sure why any American would oppose efforts aimed at creating either fair trade or even trade." <-- seb is not american. no one else is discussing this at all. and so i'm not opposing anything with this issue. just asking question and clarification.

Words were not put into your mouth. I am saying I do not understand why any American would oppose both of those concepts. You could oppose one, but opposing both would be absurd.

Opposing both would be like saying you enjoy losing.

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:
well, i am not interested in having words put into my mouth.

Is this the new victimization thing or something? Was not aware anyone was doing that.

"Not sure why any American would oppose efforts aimed at creating either fair trade or even trade." <-- seb is not american. no one else is discussing this at all. and so i'm not opposing anything with this issue. just asking question and clarification.

Words were not put into your mouth. I am saying I do not understand why any American would oppose both of those concepts. You could oppose one, but opposing both would be absurd.

Opposing both would be like saying you enjoy losing.

so it was just a general comment, and not insinuated toward me. fair, i guess. again, not opposing anything, in this issue. just trying to have a better understanding.

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:
well, i am not interested in having words put into my mouth.

Is this the new victimization thing or something? Was not aware anyone was doing that.

"Not sure why any American would oppose efforts aimed at creating either fair trade or even trade." <-- seb is not american. no one else is discussing this at all. and so i'm not opposing anything with this issue. just asking question and clarification.

Words were not put into your mouth. I am saying I do not understand why any American would oppose both of those concepts. You could oppose one, but opposing both would be absurd.

Opposing both would be like saying you enjoy losing.

so it was just a general comment, and not insinuated toward me. fair, i guess. again, not opposing anything, in this issue. just trying to have a better understanding.

Do you think that trade should be either without tariffs, with equal tariffs, or ultimately be about equal in terms of amounts traded? They are different concepts, but it is hard to imagine not agreeing with any of them. That is what I am saying.

Right now with many of our so called allies:

- we do not trade freely
- we do not trade at the same across the board tariff rates
- we are trading at a deficit

That is the problem Trump is trying to address. He seems to be willing to address it in a multitude of ways, but is apparently not going to stand by and let it continue.

Why do people keep bringing up trade deficits. Dumbest thing to fixate on.

Foo wrote: Do you think that trade should be either without tariffs, with equal tariffs, or ultimately be about equal in terms of amounts traded? They are different concepts, but it is hard to imagine not agreeing with any of them. That is what I am saying.

Right now with many of our so called allies:

- we do not trade freely
- we do not trade at the same across the board tariff rates
- we are trading at a deficit

That is the problem Trump is trying to address. He seems to be willing to address it in a multitude of ways, but is apparently not going to stand by and let it continue.

so, then i would have to assume that the united states already trades evenly or fairly with all who import it's goods? or if not, i have to assume that trump is prepared to do so? or is this something that he expects of other countries on our behalf, but not of us on their behalf as well?

i don't really understand the need for tariffs in the first place, but i'm not working in that area either. so yeah.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes ... -them/amp/

Explains it quite nicely really.

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote: Do you think that trade should be either without tariffs, with equal tariffs, or ultimately be about equal in terms of amounts traded? They are different concepts, but it is hard to imagine not agreeing with any of them. That is what I am saying.

Right now with many of our so called allies:

- we do not trade freely
- we do not trade at the same across the board tariff rates
- we are trading at a deficit

That is the problem Trump is trying to address. He seems to be willing to address it in a multitude of ways, but is apparently not going to stand by and let it continue.

so, then i would have to assume that the united states already trades evenly or fairly with all who import it's goods? or if not, i have to assume that trump is prepared to do so? or is this something that he expects of other countries on our behalf, but not of us on their behalf as well?

i don't really understand the need for tariffs in the first place, but i'm not working in that area either. so yeah.

You do trade evenly and fairly with the rest of us as we do with you with very low average tariffs.

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote: Do you think that trade should be either without tariffs, with equal tariffs, or ultimately be about equal in terms of amounts traded? They are different concepts, but it is hard to imagine not agreeing with any of them. That is what I am saying.

Right now with many of our so called allies:

- we do not trade freely
- we do not trade at the same across the board tariff rates
- we are trading at a deficit

That is the problem Trump is trying to address. He seems to be willing to address it in a multitude of ways, but is apparently not going to stand by and let it continue.

so, then i would have to assume that the united states already trades evenly or fairly with all who import it's goods? or if not, i have to assume that trump is prepared to do so? or is this something that he expects of other countries on our behalf, but not of us on their behalf as well?

i don't really understand the need for tariffs in the first place, but i'm not working in that area either. so yeah.

You do trade evenly and fairly with the rest of us as we do with you with very low average tariffs.

Average tariffs do not include the stifling effect of the massive tariffs that result in few trades across some industry.

Let's say your government puts a massive tax on all meat. As a result, people quit buying meat. They then declare there was hardly any increase in taxation because the revenue numbers didn't change that much. Very deceptive.

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote: Do you think that trade should be either without tariffs, with equal tariffs, or ultimately be about equal in terms of amounts traded? They are different concepts, but it is hard to imagine not agreeing with any of them. That is what I am saying.

Right now with many of our so called allies:

- we do not trade freely
- we do not trade at the same across the board tariff rates
- we are trading at a deficit

That is the problem Trump is trying to address. He seems to be willing to address it in a multitude of ways, but is apparently not going to stand by and let it continue.

so, then i would have to assume that the united states already trades evenly or fairly with all who import it's goods? or if not, i have to assume that trump is prepared to do so? or is this something that he expects of other countries on our behalf, but not of us on their behalf as well?

i don't really understand the need for tariffs in the first place, but i'm not working in that area either. so yeah.

Yes, the US is among the friendliest traders in the world, which is why we have such a deficit.

Let's say you make widgets and build a factory where everyone who works there makes a nice living. Suddenly China steals your widget design and starts manufacturing them in massive quantities using forced labor of children. They then start selling them cheaply to your US customers. Do you see why a tariff might be necessary to level the playing field and protect both your business and our citizens?

Trump is willing to trade freely with nations like Canada and those in the EU that share our values and have similar economies. Right now, because we do not have free trade, the tariffs are arbitrary, and we are being exploited. He is trying to address that.

US Should follow Canada on milk.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... -trade-war

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote: Do you think that trade should be either without tariffs, with equal tariffs, or ultimately be about equal in terms of amounts traded? They are different concepts, but it is hard to imagine not agreeing with any of them. That is what I am saying.

Right now with many of our so called allies:

- we do not trade freely
- we do not trade at the same across the board tariff rates
- we are trading at a deficit

That is the problem Trump is trying to address. He seems to be willing to address it in a multitude of ways, but is apparently not going to stand by and let it continue.

so, then i would have to assume that the united states already trades evenly or fairly with all who import it's goods? or if not, i have to assume that trump is prepared to do so? or is this something that he expects of other countries on our behalf, but not of us on their behalf as well?

i don't really understand the need for tariffs in the first place, but i'm not working in that area either. so yeah.

Yes, the US is among the friendliest traders in the world, which is why we have such a deficit.

Let's say you make widgets and build a factory where everyone who works there makes a nice living. Suddenly China steals your widget design and starts manufacturing them in massive quantities using forced labor of children. They then start selling them cheaply to your US customers. Do you see why a tariff might be necessary to level the playing field and protect both your business and our citizens?

Trump is willing to trade freely with nations like Canada and those in the EU that share our values and have similar economies. Right now, because we do not have free trade, the tariffs are arbitrary, and we are being exploited. He is trying to address that.

sure, tariffs on essentially counterfeit product is one thing. i'm sure we have the same thing in place in other countries to keep us from doing that to them as well.

what existing tariffs does the united states have on goods from others, like canada or the eu nations? are we also not "exploiting" in our own way?

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote: Do you think that trade should be either without tariffs, with equal tariffs, or ultimately be about equal in terms of amounts traded? They are different concepts, but it is hard to imagine not agreeing with any of them. That is what I am saying.

Right now with many of our so called allies:

- we do not trade freely
- we do not trade at the same across the board tariff rates
- we are trading at a deficit

That is the problem Trump is trying to address. He seems to be willing to address it in a multitude of ways, but is apparently not going to stand by and let it continue.

so, then i would have to assume that the united states already trades evenly or fairly with all who import it's goods? or if not, i have to assume that trump is prepared to do so? or is this something that he expects of other countries on our behalf, but not of us on their behalf as well?

i don't really understand the need for tariffs in the first place, but i'm not working in that area either. so yeah.

Yes, the US is among the friendliest traders in the world, which is why we have such a deficit.

Let's say you make widgets and build a factory where everyone who works there makes a nice living. Suddenly China steals your widget design and starts manufacturing them in massive quantities using forced labor of children. They then start selling them cheaply to your US customers. Do you see why a tariff might be necessary to level the playing field and protect both your business and our citizens?

Trump is willing to trade freely with nations like Canada and those in the EU that share our values and have similar economies. Right now, because we do not have free trade, the tariffs are arbitrary, and we are being exploited. He is trying to address that.

sure, tariffs on essentially counterfeit product is one thing. i'm sure we have the same thing in place in other countries to keep us from doing that to them as well.

what existing tariffs does the united states have on goods from others, like canada or the eu nations? are we also not "exploiting" in our own way?

Not all stealing of design is counterfeit or even illegal. That is a different issue.

We really don't exploit in trade, which is why we have a deficit. The thing that other countries do not like about things like our agricultural products are the subsidies we provide that brings the prices down. So we can literally sell a gallon of milk for $2. The idea is that cheap wholesome food is worth it for our populace and to have food security so we do not have to rely on others for basic needs.

But you’re ending subsidies right?

showa58taro wrote:But you’re ending subsidies right?

Highly doubtful.

Keep in mind there is also the whole can of worms which would be getting politicians to even agree what a subsidy is.

Foo wrote:Not all stealing of design is counterfeit or even illegal. That is a different issue.

We really don't exploit in trade, which is why we have a deficit. The thing that other countries do not like about things like our agricultural products are the subsidies we provide that brings the prices down. So we can literally sell a gallon of milk for $2. The idea is that cheap wholesome food is worth it for our populace and to have food security so we do not have to rely on others for basic needs.

isn't that what the whole "globalist" thing that trump was elected to stop, was about? is it only just when america protects the interests of it's country and economy, but exploitative and in the way of free trade, when other countries try to do the same?

Foo wrote:

showa58taro wrote:But you’re ending subsidies right?

Highly doubtful.

Keep in mind there is also the whole can of worms which would be getting politicians to even agree what a subsidy is.

So tariffs to protect farmers is wrong. But your subsidies are fine. That’s not a level playing field st all.

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:Not all stealing of design is counterfeit or even illegal. That is a different issue.

We really don't exploit in trade, which is why we have a deficit. The thing that other countries do not like about things like our agricultural products are the subsidies we provide that brings the prices down. So we can literally sell a gallon of milk for $2. The idea is that cheap wholesome food is worth it for our populace and to have food security so we do not have to rely on others for basic needs.

isn't that what the whole "globalist" thing that trump was elected to stop, was about? is it only just when america protects the interests of it's country and economy, but exploitative and in the way of free trade, when other countries try to do the same?

That is why you have to break the system or play within it. Trump is a pragmatist. He is going to play the game while he works on the solution.

showa58taro wrote:

Foo wrote:

showa58taro wrote:But you’re ending subsidies right?

Highly doubtful.

Keep in mind there is also the whole can of worms which would be getting politicians to even agree what a subsidy is.

So tariffs to protect farmers is wrong. But your subsidies are fine. That’s not a level playing field st all.

Nothing is wrong. You just need to make sure everyone is playing the same game.

Foo wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Foo wrote:

showa58taro wrote:But you’re ending subsidies right?

Highly doubtful.

Keep in mind there is also the whole can of worms which would be getting politicians to even agree what a subsidy is.

So tariffs to protect farmers is wrong. But your subsidies are fine. That’s not a level playing field st all.

Nothing is wrong. You just need to make sure everyone is playing the same game.

Which is what is currently happening and works just fine. Hence the stupidity of Trump caring about Canada being “unfair” being insane.