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Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:can we rename the thread "corporate plot to destroy small business"?

It is perfectly titled as it covers both. Corporations use liberals as useful idiots.

Want another example?

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tim-cook ... 15387.html

Why hire 250 illegals when you could be hiring Americans?

illegals can be paid less than americans. corporations use politicians to further their ends. maybe politicians are the useful idiots?

*edit* hmm.. i misread your post. seems we're in agreement, more or less.

Do you oppose DACA and similar amnesty-type programs?

daca seems like it's a way to incentivize illegal immigrants to come over here? if it's done as a temporary work force kind of thing, i could see some benefit to it. but if it's something done in order to get around deporting them, i don't like that.

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:You said the movie showed corporations working against small business. How is that portrayed in the movie?

ray kroc essentially worked as a corporation, to undercut the smaller business of the mcdonald brothers. he bought the land out from under them, essentially forcing them to lease from him, because they had a restaurant on what is now his land.

What exactly do you think a corporation is?

My business is a corporation.

i get that. when people are greedy, they can use their corporation to smush smaller businesses, as the mcdonald brothers effectively became, in comparison, at least in the way that it's portrayed in the movie.

DACA is commonly known as the Dream Act. It allows for children brought here illegally to stay via "Deferred Action", which is basically an executive order to not follow immigration law.

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:You said the movie showed corporations working against small business. How is that portrayed in the movie?

ray kroc essentially worked as a corporation, to undercut the smaller business of the mcdonald brothers. he bought the land out from under them, essentially forcing them to lease from him, because they had a restaurant on what is now his land.

What exactly do you think a corporation is?

My business is a corporation.

i get that. when people are greedy, they can use their corporation to smush smaller businesses, as the mcdonald brothers effectively became, in comparison, at least in the way that it's portrayed in the movie.

Again, what exactly do you think a corporation is?

He could have done the same actions with an LLC or sole proprietorship.

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:You said the movie showed corporations working against small business. How is that portrayed in the movie?

ray kroc essentially worked as a corporation, to undercut the smaller business of the mcdonald brothers. he bought the land out from under them, essentially forcing them to lease from him, because they had a restaurant on what is now his land.

What exactly do you think a corporation is?

My business is a corporation.

i get that. when people are greedy, they can use their corporation to smush smaller businesses, as the mcdonald brothers effectively became, in comparison, at least in the way that it's portrayed in the movie.

Again, what exactly do you think a corporation is?

He could have done the same actions with an LLC or sole proprietorship.

a corporation is a company that becomes a franchise? i don't know the technical semantics. if you dont want to discuss and debate, because i'm less informed than you are, fair enough i guess.

i'm sure that he could have done that in any number of ways. point is, that he over-extended himself and so he took it out on the brothers and their part of the business to help himself. that's what greed is.

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:You said the movie showed corporations working against small business. How is that portrayed in the movie?

ray kroc essentially worked as a corporation, to undercut the smaller business of the mcdonald brothers. he bought the land out from under them, essentially forcing them to lease from him, because they had a restaurant on what is now his land.

What exactly do you think a corporation is?

My business is a corporation.

i get that. when people are greedy, they can use their corporation to smush smaller businesses, as the mcdonald brothers effectively became, in comparison, at least in the way that it's portrayed in the movie.

Again, what exactly do you think a corporation is?

He could have done the same actions with an LLC or sole proprietorship.

a corporation is a company that becomes a franchise? i don't know the technical semantics. if you dont want to discuss and debate, because i'm less informed than you are, fair enough i guess.

i'm sure that he could have done that in any number of ways. point is, that he over-extended himself and so he took it out on the brothers and their part of the business to help himself. that's what greed is.

Just saying, if you are gonna demonize something, you should probably take time to learn what it is first. A corporation is just a legal entity. Let's say you and I start a store. We want to share it 50/50 and also protect our families from liability that may come with the business, we might start a corporation to do that. Then when we buy things, sell things, grow, etc, it makes it easier. A corporation is no more evil than the people who run it.

Is opening any business greedy because you impact others in the process? Imagine if there was only one place to buy food. Is the second business greedy?

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:You said the movie showed corporations working against small business. How is that portrayed in the movie?

ray kroc essentially worked as a corporation, to undercut the smaller business of the mcdonald brothers. he bought the land out from under them, essentially forcing them to lease from him, because they had a restaurant on what is now his land.

What exactly do you think a corporation is?

My business is a corporation.

i get that. when people are greedy, they can use their corporation to smush smaller businesses, as the mcdonald brothers effectively became, in comparison, at least in the way that it's portrayed in the movie.

Again, what exactly do you think a corporation is?

He could have done the same actions with an LLC or sole proprietorship.

a corporation is a company that becomes a franchise? i don't know the technical semantics. if you dont want to discuss and debate, because i'm less informed than you are, fair enough i guess.

i'm sure that he could have done that in any number of ways. point is, that he over-extended himself and so he took it out on the brothers and their part of the business to help himself. that's what greed is.

Just saying, if you are gonna demonize something, you should probably take time to learn what it is first. A corporation is just a legal entity. Let's say you and I start a store. We want to share it 50/50 and also protect our families from liability that may come with the business, we might start a corporation to do that. Then when we buy things, sell things, grow, etc, it makes it easier. A corporation is no more evil than the people who run it.

Is opening any business greedy because you impact others in the process? Imagine if there was only one place to buy food. Is the second business greedy?

not demonizing corporations. demonizing greedy use of corporations. greed, in general, really.

based on the movie, he was part of the company. they allowed him to expand it, to make a franchise of it. then he over-extended himself. and so, he found a way to force them to pay him for the land that they were already using. if that's not accurate to what really happened, then tell me? otherwise, it's greedy. i don't know why you're trying to defend it, if it's really the way that it happened.

you're kind of being weird about this. no, creating a competing business does not make you greedy by itself.

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:You said the movie showed corporations working against small business. How is that portrayed in the movie?

ray kroc essentially worked as a corporation, to undercut the smaller business of the mcdonald brothers. he bought the land out from under them, essentially forcing them to lease from him, because they had a restaurant on what is now his land.

What exactly do you think a corporation is?

My business is a corporation.

i get that. when people are greedy, they can use their corporation to smush smaller businesses, as the mcdonald brothers effectively became, in comparison, at least in the way that it's portrayed in the movie.

Again, what exactly do you think a corporation is?

He could have done the same actions with an LLC or sole proprietorship.

a corporation is a company that becomes a franchise? i don't know the technical semantics. if you dont want to discuss and debate, because i'm less informed than you are, fair enough i guess.

i'm sure that he could have done that in any number of ways. point is, that he over-extended himself and so he took it out on the brothers and their part of the business to help himself. that's what greed is.

Just saying, if you are gonna demonize something, you should probably take time to learn what it is first. A corporation is just a legal entity. Let's say you and I start a store. We want to share it 50/50 and also protect our families from liability that may come with the business, we might start a corporation to do that. Then when we buy things, sell things, grow, etc, it makes it easier. A corporation is no more evil than the people who run it.

Is opening any business greedy because you impact others in the process? Imagine if there was only one place to buy food. Is the second business greedy?

not demonizing corporations. demonizing greedy use of corporations. greed, in general, really.

based on the movie, he was part of the company. they allowed him to expand it, to make a franchise of it. then he over-extended himself. and so, he found a way to force them to pay him for the land that they were already using. if that's not accurate to what really happened, then tell me? otherwise, it's greedy. i don't know why you're trying to defend it, if it's really the way that it happened.

you're kind of being weird about this. no, creating a competing business does not make you greedy by itself.

I did not see the movie, so I cannot speak to it. I know Ray Kroc essentially built McDonalds by franchising what the original brothers built. I know there were hard feelings at the end, and both sides claim that the other reneged on parts of the deal.

Let me ask you this, were the McDonald's brothers being greedy when they sold off the franchising rights to their business? If I buy something u are selling and turn it into a massive success, should you be bitter? Let's say you were down on your luck at the time. Would you be better off losing it all instead of selling it to someone who made something of it?

Part of the problem I see is there is a rush to look at the successful and call them greedy, while looking at the less successful and label them a victim. Every failed business is littered with sad stories and excuses.

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:You said the movie showed corporations working against small business. How is that portrayed in the movie?

ray kroc essentially worked as a corporation, to undercut the smaller business of the mcdonald brothers. he bought the land out from under them, essentially forcing them to lease from him, because they had a restaurant on what is now his land.

What exactly do you think a corporation is?

My business is a corporation.

i get that. when people are greedy, they can use their corporation to smush smaller businesses, as the mcdonald brothers effectively became, in comparison, at least in the way that it's portrayed in the movie.

Again, what exactly do you think a corporation is?

He could have done the same actions with an LLC or sole proprietorship.

a corporation is a company that becomes a franchise? i don't know the technical semantics. if you dont want to discuss and debate, because i'm less informed than you are, fair enough i guess.

i'm sure that he could have done that in any number of ways. point is, that he over-extended himself and so he took it out on the brothers and their part of the business to help himself. that's what greed is.

Just saying, if you are gonna demonize something, you should probably take time to learn what it is first. A corporation is just a legal entity. Let's say you and I start a store. We want to share it 50/50 and also protect our families from liability that may come with the business, we might start a corporation to do that. Then when we buy things, sell things, grow, etc, it makes it easier. A corporation is no more evil than the people who run it.

Is opening any business greedy because you impact others in the process? Imagine if there was only one place to buy food. Is the second business greedy?

not demonizing corporations. demonizing greedy use of corporations. greed, in general, really.

based on the movie, he was part of the company. they allowed him to expand it, to make a franchise of it. then he over-extended himself. and so, he found a way to force them to pay him for the land that they were already using. if that's not accurate to what really happened, then tell me? otherwise, it's greedy. i don't know why you're trying to defend it, if it's really the way that it happened.

you're kind of being weird about this. no, creating a competing business does not make you greedy by itself.

I did not see the movie, so I cannot speak to it. I know Ray Kroc essentially built McDonalds by franchising what the original brothers built. I know there were hard feelings at the end, and both sides claim that the other reneged on parts of the deal.

Let me ask you this, were the McDonald's brothers being greedy when they sold off the franchising rights to their business? If I buy something u are selling and turn it into a massive success, should you be bitter? Let's say you were down on your luck at the time. Would you be better off losing it all instead of selling it to someone who made something of it?

i haven't seen the whole movie yet either. and what i have seen may not be accurate to reality. but if it is, as far as i've seen so far... they did not seem to sell him the rights to franchise. they signed a contract with him,. they were still had control of the business and such, at the time that he made them start to pay him for using his newly acquired land. like a lease for having their restaurants on the property.

it feels like i uninetionally slighted you in some way. if that's the case, i apologize. and i'll drop it.

Foo wrote:Part of the problem I see is there is a rush to look at the successful and call them greedy, while looking at the less successful and label them a victim. Every failed business is littered with sad stories and excuses.

not what i'm doing. you specifically said, earlier in the thread, that corporations are using liberals as useful idiots to destroy small business. i provided an example of a smaller business being smushed. that's all. you weren't demonizing all corporations. and i'm not demonizing all corporations.

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:You said the movie showed corporations working against small business. How is that portrayed in the movie?

ray kroc essentially worked as a corporation, to undercut the smaller business of the mcdonald brothers. he bought the land out from under them, essentially forcing them to lease from him, because they had a restaurant on what is now his land.

What exactly do you think a corporation is?

My business is a corporation.

i get that. when people are greedy, they can use their corporation to smush smaller businesses, as the mcdonald brothers effectively became, in comparison, at least in the way that it's portrayed in the movie.

Again, what exactly do you think a corporation is?

He could have done the same actions with an LLC or sole proprietorship.

a corporation is a company that becomes a franchise? i don't know the technical semantics. if you dont want to discuss and debate, because i'm less informed than you are, fair enough i guess.

i'm sure that he could have done that in any number of ways. point is, that he over-extended himself and so he took it out on the brothers and their part of the business to help himself. that's what greed is.

Just saying, if you are gonna demonize something, you should probably take time to learn what it is first. A corporation is just a legal entity. Let's say you and I start a store. We want to share it 50/50 and also protect our families from liability that may come with the business, we might start a corporation to do that. Then when we buy things, sell things, grow, etc, it makes it easier. A corporation is no more evil than the people who run it.

Is opening any business greedy because you impact others in the process? Imagine if there was only one place to buy food. Is the second business greedy?

not demonizing corporations. demonizing greedy use of corporations. greed, in general, really.

based on the movie, he was part of the company. they allowed him to expand it, to make a franchise of it. then he over-extended himself. and so, he found a way to force them to pay him for the land that they were already using. if that's not accurate to what really happened, then tell me? otherwise, it's greedy. i don't know why you're trying to defend it, if it's really the way that it happened.

you're kind of being weird about this. no, creating a competing business does not make you greedy by itself.

I did not see the movie, so I cannot speak to it. I know Ray Kroc essentially built McDonalds by franchising what the original brothers built. I know there were hard feelings at the end, and both sides claim that the other reneged on parts of the deal.

Let me ask you this, were the McDonald's brothers being greedy when they sold off the franchising rights to their business? If I buy something u are selling and turn it into a massive success, should you be bitter? Let's say you were down on your luck at the time. Would you be better off losing it all instead of selling it to someone who made something of it?

i haven't seen the whole movie yet either. and what i have seen may not be accurate to reality. but if it is, as far as i've seen so far... they did not seem to sell him the rights to franchise. they signed a contract with him,. they were still had control of the business and such, at the time that he made them start to pay him for using his newly acquired land. like a lease for having their restaurants on the property.

it feels like i uninetionally slighted you in some way. if that's the case, i apologize. and i'll drop it.

I think a lot was left out. I am familiar with the story, but not the movie. The McDonald brothers sold rights to Kroc.

I do not feel slighted, but I think good business and greed need to be distinguished.

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:Part of the problem I see is there is a rush to look at the successful and call them greedy, while looking at the less successful and label them a victim. Every failed business is littered with sad stories and excuses.

not what i'm doing. you specifically said, earlier in the thread, that corporations are using liberals as useful idiots to destroy small business. i provided an example of a smaller business being smushed. that's all. you weren't demonizing all corporations. and i'm not demonizing all corporations.

I find that most of the time, the small business in those scenarios are poorly managed to begin with and are basically asking to be smushed.

For instance, Wal-Mart should not be putting you out of business unless you already have issues, because their service and atmosphere sucks. Pizza Hut coming in should not be putting your pizza place out of business unless your pizza and service are shittier than the Pizza Hut.

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:You said the movie showed corporations working against small business. How is that portrayed in the movie?

ray kroc essentially worked as a corporation, to undercut the smaller business of the mcdonald brothers. he bought the land out from under them, essentially forcing them to lease from him, because they had a restaurant on what is now his land.

What exactly do you think a corporation is?

My business is a corporation.

i get that. when people are greedy, they can use their corporation to smush smaller businesses, as the mcdonald brothers effectively became, in comparison, at least in the way that it's portrayed in the movie.

Again, what exactly do you think a corporation is?

He could have done the same actions with an LLC or sole proprietorship.

a corporation is a company that becomes a franchise? i don't know the technical semantics. if you dont want to discuss and debate, because i'm less informed than you are, fair enough i guess.

i'm sure that he could have done that in any number of ways. point is, that he over-extended himself and so he took it out on the brothers and their part of the business to help himself. that's what greed is.

Just saying, if you are gonna demonize something, you should probably take time to learn what it is first. A corporation is just a legal entity. Let's say you and I start a store. We want to share it 50/50 and also protect our families from liability that may come with the business, we might start a corporation to do that. Then when we buy things, sell things, grow, etc, it makes it easier. A corporation is no more evil than the people who run it.

Is opening any business greedy because you impact others in the process? Imagine if there was only one place to buy food. Is the second business greedy?

not demonizing corporations. demonizing greedy use of corporations. greed, in general, really.

based on the movie, he was part of the company. they allowed him to expand it, to make a franchise of it. then he over-extended himself. and so, he found a way to force them to pay him for the land that they were already using. if that's not accurate to what really happened, then tell me? otherwise, it's greedy. i don't know why you're trying to defend it, if it's really the way that it happened.

you're kind of being weird about this. no, creating a competing business does not make you greedy by itself.

I did not see the movie, so I cannot speak to it. I know Ray Kroc essentially built McDonalds by franchising what the original brothers built. I know there were hard feelings at the end, and both sides claim that the other reneged on parts of the deal.

Let me ask you this, were the McDonald's brothers being greedy when they sold off the franchising rights to their business? If I buy something u are selling and turn it into a massive success, should you be bitter? Let's say you were down on your luck at the time. Would you be better off losing it all instead of selling it to someone who made something of it?

i haven't seen the whole movie yet either. and what i have seen may not be accurate to reality. but if it is, as far as i've seen so far... they did not seem to sell him the rights to franchise. they signed a contract with him,. they were still had control of the business and such, at the time that he made them start to pay him for using his newly acquired land. like a lease for having their restaurants on the property.

it feels like i uninetionally slighted you in some way. if that's the case, i apologize. and i'll drop it.

I think a lot was left out. I am familiar with the story, but not the movie. The McDonald brothers sold rights to Kroc.

I do not feel slighted, but I think good business and greed need to be distinguished.

maybe that happens later, or maybe it was left out. i don't know. was he already franchising the business, before they sold him the rights, based on what you know? in the movie, that was his intention from the start, when they decided to start working with him.

sure. good business is not the same as greed. and some would consider greed to be good business. corporations using the government to interfere with smaller businesses could be seen, by the people running those corporations, to just be good business. it depends largely on your perspective.

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:Part of the problem I see is there is a rush to look at the successful and call them greedy, while looking at the less successful and label them a victim. Every failed business is littered with sad stories and excuses.

not what i'm doing. you specifically said, earlier in the thread, that corporations are using liberals as useful idiots to destroy small business. i provided an example of a smaller business being smushed. that's all. you weren't demonizing all corporations. and i'm not demonizing all corporations.

I find that most of the time, the small business in those scenarios are poorly managed to begin with and are basically asking to be smushed.

For instance, Wal-Mart should not be putting you out of business unless you already have issues, because their service and atmosphere sucks. Pizza Hut coming in should not be putting your pizza place out of business unless your pizza and service are shittier than the Pizza Hut.

so, then what was the purpose of this thread exactly? if you're being destroyed, it's likely because you were in trouble to begin with... enh.

You can't franchise a business you do not own the rights to. If I recall, the brothers had previously been unsuccessful in franchising it, and they made a deal with Kroc to do so.

When you run a business, to whom do you owe loyalty? Yourself, your family, your partners, your staff, your investors, etc. or the other businesses that should be looking out for themselves? That is why I say greed is good. It keeps everyone in line.

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:Part of the problem I see is there is a rush to look at the successful and call them greedy, while looking at the less successful and label them a victim. Every failed business is littered with sad stories and excuses.

not what i'm doing. you specifically said, earlier in the thread, that corporations are using liberals as useful idiots to destroy small business. i provided an example of a smaller business being smushed. that's all. you weren't demonizing all corporations. and i'm not demonizing all corporations.

I find that most of the time, the small business in those scenarios are poorly managed to begin with and are basically asking to be smushed.

For instance, Wal-Mart should not be putting you out of business unless you already have issues, because their service and atmosphere sucks. Pizza Hut coming in should not be putting your pizza place out of business unless your pizza and service are shittier than the Pizza Hut.

so, then what was the purpose of this thread exactly? if you're being destroyed, it's likely because you were in trouble to begin with... enh.

I am pointing out liberal beliefs that undermine small business. Ignorance of unintended consequence by social justice warrios and control freaks who hurt the little guy they claim to be standing up for.

Foo wrote:You can't franchise a business you do not own the rights to. If I recall, the brothers had previously been unsuccessful in franchising it, and they made a deal with Kroc to do so.

When you run a business, to whom do you owe loyalty? Yourself, your family, your partners, your staff, your investors, etc. or the other businesses that should be looking out for themselves? That is why I say greed is good. It keeps everyone in line.

okay. maybe the movie is fabricating it. they did try to make a franchise but couldn't maintain the quality that they wanted, allegedly. he came along and they struck a deal, but he still answered to them over everything regarding the new restaurants. again, allegedly.

greed is not good. starting a similar business to one already in the area does not count as greed, to me. it's competition. competition is not greed, by itself. a 7-11 and a kangaroo gas station can compete, without either of them being greedy. netflix wasn't greedy, in competing with blockbuster and other physical rental stores.

Foo wrote:
I am pointing out liberal beliefs that undermine small business. Ignorance of unintended consequence by social justice warrios and control freaks who hurt the little guy they claim to be standing up for.

the way you started the thread, it seemed to be specifically about how government, specifically liberal government based on your bias, acts to undermine and knock down small business.

if it is about ideas by non-politicians that is what you really have a problem with, then let's talk about that?

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:
I am pointing out liberal beliefs that undermine small business. Ignorance of unintended consequence by social justice warrios and control freaks who hurt the little guy they claim to be standing up for.

the way you started the thread, it seemed to be specifically about how government, specifically liberal government based on your bias, acts to undermine and knock down small business.

if it is about ideas by non-politicians that is what you really have a problem with, then let's talk about that?

It is all interconnected. From Occupy Wall street, to Black Lives Matter, to the SJW snowflake, to the liberal politician, to the liberal agenda they follow.

There is an irony to big tent politics. The Occupy guy and the BLM guy work to put the guy into office who makes it impossible for the poor black guy to start a business.