HorrorMovieFans.com

we can, now, drop the pretense that this was not anti-nurse or not pro-cop.

Only commenting on the nurse story:


Both were in the wrong because neither one of them wanted to be penalized by their superiors.

Scenario one: Nurse allows cop to do blood draw, cop doesn't sterilize draw area properly because the skin is severely burned and crevices of skin aren't swabbed properly with an alcohol pad (or the cop tears the fragile burnt skin because he isn't trained in doing blood draws from burn victims), this causes an infection in the victim that ultimately causes his already weak system to start shutting down. Nurse broke hospital regulations to allow this, she is liable for the truck driver's death, even though the cop insisted she was following the law. She risks being fired, sued, and arrested for allowing the cop to just "do his job." (there are a number of other ways the cop doing the blood draw can go horribly wrong, depending on exactly how the cop was trained in phlebotomy. If he's only trained to draw from certain areas, trying to draw from any other area could cause serious damage to the patient, who is already in bad shape. The cop would not be liable for these as the patient's health is the hospital's responsibility, which is why they require a warrant if a patient can't consent, it is the only thing protecting the hospital and its staff if something goes horribly wrong and the patient dies as a result. "but the cop said" is not a defense for them. Neither is "I was just doing what the police told me to do.")

Scenario two: Nurse doesn't allow cop to do blood draw, evidence is lost, truck driver recovers and loses his CDL because he can't prove he wasn't under the influence of anything in the course of the accident. Truck driver can sue hospital over lost wages due to their negligence in obtaining a blood sample (which is common procedure following an accident for everyone involved and not obtaining it would be negligence.)

Actual scenario: Patient is unconscious and not yet stable, blood draws are generally performed within the first hour of when treatment begins in a hospital to check for a myriad of things. (especially in trauma victims who may need extensive blood related care or observation.) Nurse doesn't allow cop to do an additional blood draw because he has no warrant and patient cannot consent. Nurse should have told the cop that a blood draw had already been performed, and the cop should have asked if a blood draw had already been performed. Patient's rights are not violated and evidence is already obtained, no one gets arrested. If cop insists he has to do the draw himself, then he has to get a warrant because the current blood draw is already enough to prove if the driver was under the influence of anything and allowing a draw without the patient's consent violates his rights and puts his health at risk.

One question or statement from either side should have ended the situation before it even began. Both the hospital and the police department should train their employees to either ask about the procedures performed already, or offer the procedures performed already to law enforcement if they are involved in the incident. Patient's rights remain intact and evidence is collected without anyone having to act like an asshole.

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:Is the primary function of a hospital to help people or to make money?

that doesn't feel relevant to this instance. how does insisting that you, as a nurse in charge of the patient, need a warrant to draw blood from that patient, make you money? does it not do anything to help or protect the patient?

Why dodge? Are motivations not relevant?

I am saying we need to quit pretending hospitals and nurses are not profit driven. It is a farce.

because it only serves your agenda. but i think that hospitals have the pretense of helping people, while often doing whatever they can to make money.

and you dodged what i asked. thanks for that.

I think the sooner we just acknowledge that most hospitals are pretty much run like fast food restaurants, the sooner we find common ground in the truth. They are there to help people like fast food is there to feed people. It is an exchange of service/product for money. The people work there to get paid.

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:Is the primary function of a hospital to help people or to make money?

that doesn't feel relevant to this instance. how does insisting that you, as a nurse in charge of the patient, need a warrant to draw blood from that patient, make you money? does it not do anything to help or protect the patient?

Why dodge? Are motivations not relevant?

I am saying we need to quit pretending hospitals and nurses are not profit driven. It is a farce.

because it only serves your agenda. but i think that hospitals have the pretense of helping people, while often doing whatever they can to make money.

and you dodged what i asked. thanks for that.

I think the sooner we just acknowledge that most hospitals are pretty much run like fast food restaurants, the sooner we find common ground in the truth. They are there to help people like fast food is there to feed people. It is an exchange of service/product for money. The people work there to get paid.

okay. i think dream pretty much summed up the truth of the situation, and any hypotheticals relating directly to the situation.

so what is your truth, then?

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:Is the primary function of a hospital to help people or to make money?

that doesn't feel relevant to this instance. how does insisting that you, as a nurse in charge of the patient, need a warrant to draw blood from that patient, make you money? does it not do anything to help or protect the patient?

Why dodge? Are motivations not relevant?

I am saying we need to quit pretending hospitals and nurses are not profit driven. It is a farce.

because it only serves your agenda. but i think that hospitals have the pretense of helping people, while often doing whatever they can to make money.

and you dodged what i asked. thanks for that.

I think the sooner we just acknowledge that most hospitals are pretty much run like fast food restaurants, the sooner we find common ground in the truth. They are there to help people like fast food is there to feed people. It is an exchange of service/product for money. The people work there to get paid.

okay. i think dream pretty much summed up the truth of the situation, and any hypotheticals relating directly to the situation.

so what is your truth, then?

I just like to acknowledge motivations. The cop was there to help the victim. The nurse was interested in protecting her job.

Foo wrote:
I just like to acknowledge motivations. The cop was there to help the victim. The nurse was interested in protecting her job.

we've agreed that hospitals are probably largely operated to make money, with the pretense of helping people. the motivations of individuals working at that hospital are trickier to determine. as they are with individual police officers. so you can cut that out, unless you're a psychic.

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:Is the primary function of a hospital to help people or to make money?

that doesn't feel relevant to this instance. how does insisting that you, as a nurse in charge of the patient, need a warrant to draw blood from that patient, make you money? does it not do anything to help or protect the patient?

Why dodge? Are motivations not relevant?

I am saying we need to quit pretending hospitals and nurses are not profit driven. It is a farce.

because it only serves your agenda. but i think that hospitals have the pretense of helping people, while often doing whatever they can to make money.

and you dodged what i asked. thanks for that.

I think the sooner we just acknowledge that most hospitals are pretty much run like fast food restaurants, the sooner we find common ground in the truth. They are there to help people like fast food is there to feed people. It is an exchange of service/product for money. The people work there to get paid.

okay. i think dream pretty much summed up the truth of the situation, and any hypotheticals relating directly to the situation.

so what is your truth, then?

I just like to acknowledge motivations. The cop was there to help the victim. The nurse was interested in protecting her job.

I'd argue the cop was more interested in protecting his job than the patient. His actions were the ones that could put the patient's life at risk. The nurse's actions simply put the patient's job at risk.

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:
I just like to acknowledge motivations. The cop was there to help the victim. The nurse was interested in protecting her job.

we've agreed that hospitals are probably largely operated to make money, with the pretense of helping people. the motivations of individuals working at that hospital are trickier to determine. as they are with individual police officers. so you can cut that out, unless you're a psychic.

I do have some psychic powers you know. Foostrodamus has been known to amaze. Also available for birthday parties, bar mitzvahs, and corporate events!

Dream wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:Is the primary function of a hospital to help people or to make money?

that doesn't feel relevant to this instance. how does insisting that you, as a nurse in charge of the patient, need a warrant to draw blood from that patient, make you money? does it not do anything to help or protect the patient?

Why dodge? Are motivations not relevant?

I am saying we need to quit pretending hospitals and nurses are not profit driven. It is a farce.

because it only serves your agenda. but i think that hospitals have the pretense of helping people, while often doing whatever they can to make money.

and you dodged what i asked. thanks for that.

I think the sooner we just acknowledge that most hospitals are pretty much run like fast food restaurants, the sooner we find common ground in the truth. They are there to help people like fast food is there to feed people. It is an exchange of service/product for money. The people work there to get paid.

okay. i think dream pretty much summed up the truth of the situation, and any hypotheticals relating directly to the situation.

so what is your truth, then?

I just like to acknowledge motivations. The cop was there to help the victim. The nurse was interested in protecting her job.

I'd argue the cop was more interested in protecting his job than the patient. His actions were the ones that could put the patient's life at risk. The nurse's actions simply put the patient's job at risk.

The cop has put his job on the line for the patient, he is on leave and under immense pressure. The nurse did not. She protected her career. She is probably smarter.

I would say

Generally: Hospitals are there to make money
Individually: Completely different ballpark. I like to think there are surgeons out there who cry tears of joy after performing a successful life-or-death surgery. But many also only do it for the money.

Foo wrote:Just saying, if he is out trying to protect the victim, it blows all sorts of holes in the bully cop narrative, which is why it is important for those pushing that narrative to declare it irrelevant.

Both the cop and the nurse had the same agenda, yet one inspires people to be on "Team Nurse!". I personally look for a situation where we are all on "Team Victim".

No it doesn't. Doing the right thing the wrong way is still wrong. He should never have harassed and bullied that poor nurse. It achieved nothing and was clearly not the right move. Hence him being put on administrative leave and criminal charges being filed. If he was all in the right then that wouldn't happen.

Foo wrote: Only lawmakers can draft laws, which must be approved by and elected official, and then by the courts.

Unless you're the Republican Party with Trump as President.


BAZINGA

Side note: this is why your system is garbage, on a macro-economic scale. You say hospitals are there to make money and so far many of you agree. That's enough to show your system is fundamentally broken and needs changing. But all that for another day.

showa58taro wrote:

Foo wrote: Only lawmakers can draft laws, which must be approved by and elected official, and then by the courts.

Unless you're the Republican Party with Trump as President.


BAZINGA

It is a weird situation where Obama shows up and starts undoing Bush laws and creating his own, and then Trump shows up and starts undoing laws Obama did without congress.

Just bringing up DACA because it is relevant at the moment, but it feels wrong for a president to decide hundreds of thousands to millions can violate immigration law without congress approval.

showa58taro wrote:Side note: this is why your system is garbage, on a macro-economic scale. You say hospitals are there to make money and so far many of you agree. That's enough to show your system is fundamentally broken and needs changing. But all that for another day.

Depends if you prefer nice restaurants or school lunches to eat.

Foo wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Foo wrote: Only lawmakers can draft laws, which must be approved by and elected official, and then by the courts.

Unless you're the Republican Party with Trump as President.


BAZINGA

It is a weird situation where Obama shows up and starts undoing Bush laws and creating his own, and then Trump shows up and starts undoing laws Obama did without congress.

Just bringing up DACA because it is relevant at the moment, but it feels wrong for a president to decide hundreds of thousands to millions can violate immigration law without congress approval.

I was more joking about failure to get any legislation passed. But valid, it is odd to have executive order agenda bypass the elected congress and senate.

Foo wrote:

showa58taro wrote:Side note: this is why your system is garbage, on a macro-economic scale. You say hospitals are there to make money and so far many of you agree. That's enough to show your system is fundamentally broken and needs changing. But all that for another day.

Depends if you prefer nice restaurants or school lunches to eat.

Neither. I prefer to have a hospital whose primary function is care. Not profits.

showa58taro wrote:

Foo wrote:

showa58taro wrote:Side note: this is why your system is garbage, on a macro-economic scale. You say hospitals are there to make money and so far many of you agree. That's enough to show your system is fundamentally broken and needs changing. But all that for another day.

Depends if you prefer nice restaurants or school lunches to eat.

Neither. I prefer to have a hospital whose primary function is care. Not profits.

School lunch it is.

Why do you think you receive better service at a nice restaurant than at a school lunch hall?

Notice the different treatment from a hotel concierge and a government employee when you ask a question?

Foo wrote:Notice the different treatment from a hotel concierge and a government employee when you ask a question?

No. Have had good and bad in both.