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it's not a weak definition unless you force it to be by twisting things around to suit your agenda. but if the goal is to be less divided as a country or society. i would love that to be a direction we were going.Jason wrote:The weaker the definition is and how loosely it is applied, the more divided we become.
I promise I'm not trying to do that. I am just providing different scenarios to see where and how you feel the term should be applied. I am most likely 100% in agreement with you.zombie wrote:if you're watching a boxer on tv, who is american and you say he's shit because he's american. then that's anti-american seemingly. i feel like you're trying to catch me in a gotcha by starting one premise and then twisting it around, when i give an answer?Jason wrote:lol. I wouldn't even call it anti-American. If I get into an argument with a black guy does that make us racist because our skin happens to be a different shade of color?zombie wrote:no, that's not xenophobia either. not even a little bit. "xeno" is outside or other. if you're both of the same country and culture, it's not "xeno". but it is anti-american seemingly.Jason wrote:
What if the American said the same thing about an American boxer?
This is kind of what I meant when I was saying the definition is getting weaker, watered down and applied so loosely. A boxer can receive negative backlash and when it's becomes apparent he is of a different nationality it becomes xenophobic. If the exact same words were used to describe a fighter who happens to be in the same nation, now it's not xenophobic.
I agree here, as well.zombie wrote:it's not a weak definition unless you force it to be by twisting things around to suit your agenda. but if the goal is to be less divided as a country or society. i would love that to be a direction we were going.Jason wrote:The weaker the definition is and how loosely it is applied, the more divided we become.
but you feel like i'm weakening the meaning of the word?Jason wrote:I promise I'm not trying to do that. I am just providing different scenarios to see where and how you feel the term should be applied. I am most likely 100% in agreement with you.zombie wrote:if you're watching a boxer on tv, who is american and you say he's shit because he's american. then that's anti-american seemingly. i feel like you're trying to catch me in a gotcha by starting one premise and then twisting it around, when i give an answer?Jason wrote:lol. I wouldn't even call it anti-American. If I get into an argument with a black guy does that make us racist because our skin happens to be a different shade of color?zombie wrote:no, that's not xenophobia either. not even a little bit. "xeno" is outside or other. if you're both of the same country and culture, it's not "xeno". but it is anti-american seemingly.Jason wrote:
What if the American said the same thing about an American boxer?
This is kind of what I meant when I was saying the definition is getting weaker, watered down and applied so loosely. A boxer can receive negative backlash and when it's becomes apparent he is of a different nationality it becomes xenophobic. If the exact same words were used to describe a fighter who happens to be in the same nation, now it's not xenophobic.
No, I feel like the meaning of the word started to become weakened when Hillary used it after she became the democratic nominee to help derail her own campaign.zombie wrote:but you feel like i'm weakening the meaning of the word?Jason wrote:I promise I'm not trying to do that. I am just providing different scenarios to see where and how you feel the term should be applied. I am most likely 100% in agreement with you.zombie wrote:if you're watching a boxer on tv, who is american and you say he's shit because he's american. then that's anti-american seemingly. i feel like you're trying to catch me in a gotcha by starting one premise and then twisting it around, when i give an answer?Jason wrote:lol. I wouldn't even call it anti-American. If I get into an argument with a black guy does that make us racist because our skin happens to be a different shade of color?zombie wrote:no, that's not xenophobia either. not even a little bit. "xeno" is outside or other. if you're both of the same country and culture, it's not "xeno". but it is anti-american seemingly.Jason wrote:
What if the American said the same thing about an American boxer?
This is kind of what I meant when I was saying the definition is getting weaker, watered down and applied so loosely. A boxer can receive negative backlash and when it's becomes apparent he is of a different nationality it becomes xenophobic. If the exact same words were used to describe a fighter who happens to be in the same nation, now it's not xenophobic.
Almost certainly if it’s a wall to another country. Again, no judgements, just definitions. Xenophobia is a fear of foreign and a wall to keep them out is largely that.Jason wrote:Is it xenophobic to build a border wall?showa58taro wrote:Not here. There is one definition and at no point is it about sports teams support.Jason wrote:No, I definitely understand it. But there is a different standard applied to the definition of the word when America or Americans are involved.showa58taro wrote:I don’t sense you Understand the term xenophobia.Jason wrote:The weakening of the word "xenophobia" from yesterday's discussion in here got me thinking a little bit about it and I came to the conclusion that Americans are the least "xenophobic" citizens when compared to any nation. Particularly evident with sports. Take a boxing match for example. You could have a British guy vs. an American guy and in America it will always be a mixed opinion on who the American audience is cheering for. Put that same venue in Britain and 100% of the audience is going all in on the British fighter. Seb, for example, will always cheer for the Swedish guy to do well, or the Swedish movie to excel the most, etc... Even in the olympics, every resident in Zagreb is going to be rooting for Croatia. Got to a random bar in America and it'll probably be mostly people rooting for Americans, but you will certainly find people cheering for the other team.
No.Jason wrote:Is national citizenship, in itself, xenophobia?
What Z said. I feel like we are talking about a very obvious and defined term with its own Wikipedia page and you seem to be going down a road where the literal concept of a state somehow becomes a point about xenophobiazombie wrote:no, national citizenship is not xenophobia, on it's surface. let me ask what xenophobia means to you, as a term? how do you define it? cause this whole convo is a little bit weird to me.
An absolute unacceptance of people or cultures from different countries. And even with that said, I don't think xenophobia is wrong in many cases. For example, the U.S. was xenophobic of Germany in the 1940s. And history proved it to be the correct interpretation.zombie wrote:no, national citizenship is not xenophobia, on it's surface. let me ask what xenophobia means to you, as a term? how do you define it? cause this whole convo is a little bit weird to me.
Wikipedia is not a source.showa58taro wrote:What Z said. I feel like we are talking about a very obvious and defined term with its own Wikipedia page and you seem to be going down a road where the literal concept of a state somehow becomes a point about xenophobiazombie wrote:no, national citizenship is not xenophobia, on it's surface. let me ask what xenophobia means to you, as a term? how do you define it? cause this whole convo is a little bit weird to me.
was the united states xenophobic toward germany, or were we, at that time, reacting in opposition to the xenophobia of their leadership?Jason wrote:An absolute unacceptance of people or cultures from different countries. And even with that said, I don't think xenophobia is wrong in many cases. For example, the U.S. was xenophobic of Germany in the 1940s. And history proved it to be the correct interpretation.zombie wrote:no, national citizenship is not xenophobia, on it's surface. let me ask what xenophobia means to you, as a term? how do you define it? cause this whole convo is a little bit weird to me.
you're really hung up on this. the term is only weakened because some of us dare apply it to someone who is opposed to a foreign filmmaker receiving a film award from an american academy.Jason wrote:The definition of xenophobia says "dislike of (or prejudice) against people from other countries."
The definition itself is vague and left to interpretation, hence the weakened expression of it in this thread.
I don't like Kim Jong Un: Not xenophobia
I don't like Vladimir Putin: Not xenophobia
I don't like Russian people: Xenophobia
We responded to xenophobia with xenophobia, but even then, Germans fled here to escape Hitler, so even that can be considered not xenophobic.zombie wrote:was the united states xenophobic toward germany, or were we, at that time, reacting in opposition to the xenophobia of their leadership?Jason wrote:An absolute unacceptance of people or cultures from different countries. And even with that said, I don't think xenophobia is wrong in many cases. For example, the U.S. was xenophobic of Germany in the 1940s. And history proved it to be the correct interpretation.zombie wrote:no, national citizenship is not xenophobia, on it's surface. let me ask what xenophobia means to you, as a term? how do you define it? cause this whole convo is a little bit weird to me.
Not hung up, really. One thing in these threads can trigger a chain reaction of discussions. I'll get into this deep of a discussion on anything political that you want. :pzombie wrote:you're really hung up on this. the term is only weakened because some of us dare apply it to someone who is opposed to a foreign filmmaker receiving a film award from an american academy.Jason wrote:The definition of xenophobia says "dislike of (or prejudice) against people from other countries."
The definition itself is vague and left to interpretation, hence the weakened expression of it in this thread.
I don't like Kim Jong Un: Not xenophobia
I don't like Vladimir Putin: Not xenophobia
I don't like Russian people: Xenophobia
If you don’t like KJU or Vova Putin because they are foreign then it IS Xenophobia. It can be directed at a specific person by virtue of being foreign. Like with Paradite and Trump feeding his base. It’s not a cinematic critique of Parasites narrative structure that drove his comment. It’s that a foreign film beat a domestic film. Ergo, xenophobia.zombie wrote:you're really hung up on this. the term is only weakened because some of us dare apply it to someone who is opposed to a foreign filmmaker receiving a film award from an american academy.Jason wrote:The definition of xenophobia says "dislike of (or prejudice) against people from other countries."
The definition itself is vague and left to interpretation, hence the weakened expression of it in this thread.
I don't like Kim Jong Un: Not xenophobia
I don't like Vladimir Putin: Not xenophobia
I don't like Russian people: Xenophobia
that is how it was expressed. he didn't think a foreign film deserved to win best picture at the oscars, because it wasn't english language. what word should we use for it?Jason wrote:
Not hung up, really. One thing in these threads can trigger a chain reaction of discussions. I'll get into this deep of a discussion on anything political that you want. :p
Also, that's not xenophobia, and also, that's not at all how it was expressed.