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Headhunter wrote:

Jigsaw wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Jigsaw wrote:

Headhunter wrote:Ralph Nader and Jill Stein were really helpful to the cause.

I'd have rather voted for them than individuals like Gore, Kerry, Obama, or Clinton without hesitation or doubt.

And you're comfortable with the consequences of that? So what are you complaining about?

The night that Hillary Clinton lost was, as a leftist, perhaps one of the best nights of my life. So I am indeed entirely comfortable with it.

I'm complaining about how you see it purely as helping Republicans without addressing the fact that we, on the far-left, have no more interest in helping Republicans into office than we do Democrats.

Again, you can spin it however you want as an idealist. I am just stating the large scale consequences. You help Republicans. Cool. When I voted Libertarian, I helped Democrats. Let's be real.

I think you're the one spinning it, Head.

The fact is: I voted third party.

The spin is: I helped a party I didn't vote for.

If Clinton had 50,000 votes in Indiana, and Trump had 50,000 votes in Indiana, does my vote for Stein go to Trump's tally?

Didn't think so.

Tiggnutz wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:

Headhunter wrote:The Franken thing was a joke and an example of the Democrats "playing by the rules" to their own detriment. You need to fight dirty to beat the Republicans, because they will do anything it takes to win. And if they didn't carry that attitude, they'd never win an election again.

That's funny saying repulicans will do anything it takes to win when I see it as the democrats doing whatever it takes to win. I don't think the lady involved thought it was a joke being humiliated while she was asleep. Too bad for Franklin he would be loving this situation just like Booker the titty grabber who isn’t an attempted sex offender because he wrote an article about grabbing it.

What's not funny Is the Republicans' all out assault on voting rights.

You need to wake up.

I did wake up right around 2014 when I saw the party I believed in the democrats for what they truly are charlatans who take advantage of people in need to feed their hunger for power.

And the Republicans?

Some are bad but its not fully compromised as with the Dems. There are still moderate Republicans there are no more moderate Democrats and that's dangerous to the country as a whole.

There are very few Democrats who are actually leftists. If the Democratic Party was as leftist as you and many conservatives seem to claim, then I'd probably actually vote Democratic.

I'd argue most Democrats are pretty much centrists, which a few exceptions, but given those exceptions are generally spineless also, it doesn't mean much.

Jigsaw wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Jigsaw wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Jigsaw wrote:I love the idea that far-left individuals who vote third party "don't seem to know" we're "helping" Republicans.

Believe me, every Democratic jackass, as soon as they hear we didn't vote for Clinton, gets on our asses about it and doesn't shut up. We know damn well what Democratic-supporting idiots think.

And you also understand the mechanism of a two party system.

So what are you calling bullshit on? I'm just laying out hard truths. You help Republicans. It is what it is. How comfortable you are with it is between you and your conscience.

"Helping Republicans" isn't how I see voting third party at all. That is a slant you are taking.

The truth is I am voting for leftist third party candidates. The truth is I dislike both Democrats and Republicans. The truth is that neither party runs candidates I have any interest in supporting.

And in your eyes, just because I am not voting for Democrats, I'm "helping Republicans."

That may be how you see it, but I do not accept that as truth.

Jig, I'm a pragmatist, not an idealist. Two parties matter. If you're taking away a vote for one, you essentially help the other. Since Republicans rely on low turnouts, your vote is as good as not showing up. You can spin it however you want, those are the consequences. 99.9% of Americans don't care who Joe Blow Socialist is, or Larry Libertarian or whoever.

I "took away" a vote from both.

No party owns our votes.

If Jill Stein wasn't on the ballot or an option to write-in, do you really think that they en masse would have voted for Clinton? Most Stein supporters I know simply wouldn't have voted, and Trump would have won anyway.

The whole "people are either Democrats or Republicans" mind-set is just ridiculous.

If Stein wasn't a choice, I would have written in Monica Moorehead (WWP). If neither Stein nor Moorehead were choices, I would have written in Mimi Soltysik (SPUSA).

If Soltysik, Stein, or Moorehead were not choices, I wouldn't have voted, period.

I don't know who the fuck Salty Stick or Moorehouse are. These names are important in your bubble, they mean nothing to me or the country as a whole.

I understand your perspective here. To me, winning is all that matters. I didn't always feel this way but here I am.

Headhunter wrote:

Jigsaw wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Jigsaw wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Jigsaw wrote:I love the idea that far-left individuals who vote third party "don't seem to know" we're "helping" Republicans.

Believe me, every Democratic jackass, as soon as they hear we didn't vote for Clinton, gets on our asses about it and doesn't shut up. We know damn well what Democratic-supporting idiots think.

And you also understand the mechanism of a two party system.

So what are you calling bullshit on? I'm just laying out hard truths. You help Republicans. It is what it is. How comfortable you are with it is between you and your conscience.

"Helping Republicans" isn't how I see voting third party at all. That is a slant you are taking.

The truth is I am voting for leftist third party candidates. The truth is I dislike both Democrats and Republicans. The truth is that neither party runs candidates I have any interest in supporting.

And in your eyes, just because I am not voting for Democrats, I'm "helping Republicans."

That may be how you see it, but I do not accept that as truth.

Jig, I'm a pragmatist, not an idealist. Two parties matter. If you're taking away a vote for one, you essentially help the other. Since Republicans rely on low turnouts, your vote is as good as not showing up. You can spin it however you want, those are the consequences. 99.9% of Americans don't care who Joe Blow Socialist is, or Larry Libertarian or whoever.

I "took away" a vote from both.

No party owns our votes.

If Jill Stein wasn't on the ballot or an option to write-in, do you really think that they en masse would have voted for Clinton? Most Stein supporters I know simply wouldn't have voted, and Trump would have won anyway.

The whole "people are either Democrats or Republicans" mind-set is just ridiculous.

If Stein wasn't a choice, I would have written in Monica Moorehead (WWP). If neither Stein nor Moorehead were choices, I would have written in Mimi Soltysik (SPUSA).

If Soltysik, Stein, or Moorehead were not choices, I wouldn't have voted, period.

I don't know who the fuck Salty Stick or Moorehouse are. These names are important in your bubble, they mean nothing to me or the country as a whole.

I understand your perspective here. To me, winning is all that matters. I didn't always feel this way but here I am.

The problem is, you saw a Clinton victory as "winning."

I saw a Clinton victory as "losing," same with Trump. It didn't matter who won, we all still lost, in my opinion.

Jigsaw wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Jigsaw wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Jigsaw wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Jigsaw wrote:I love the idea that far-left individuals who vote third party "don't seem to know" we're "helping" Republicans.

Believe me, every Democratic jackass, as soon as they hear we didn't vote for Clinton, gets on our asses about it and doesn't shut up. We know damn well what Democratic-supporting idiots think.

And you also understand the mechanism of a two party system.

So what are you calling bullshit on? I'm just laying out hard truths. You help Republicans. It is what it is. How comfortable you are with it is between you and your conscience.

"Helping Republicans" isn't how I see voting third party at all. That is a slant you are taking.

The truth is I am voting for leftist third party candidates. The truth is I dislike both Democrats and Republicans. The truth is that neither party runs candidates I have any interest in supporting.

And in your eyes, just because I am not voting for Democrats, I'm "helping Republicans."

That may be how you see it, but I do not accept that as truth.

Jig, I'm a pragmatist, not an idealist. Two parties matter. If you're taking away a vote for one, you essentially help the other. Since Republicans rely on low turnouts, your vote is as good as not showing up. You can spin it however you want, those are the consequences. 99.9% of Americans don't care who Joe Blow Socialist is, or Larry Libertarian or whoever.

I "took away" a vote from both.

No party owns our votes.

If Jill Stein wasn't on the ballot or an option to write-in, do you really think that they en masse would have voted for Clinton? Most Stein supporters I know simply wouldn't have voted, and Trump would have won anyway.

The whole "people are either Democrats or Republicans" mind-set is just ridiculous.

If Stein wasn't a choice, I would have written in Monica Moorehead (WWP). If neither Stein nor Moorehead were choices, I would have written in Mimi Soltysik (SPUSA).

If Soltysik, Stein, or Moorehead were not choices, I wouldn't have voted, period.

I don't know who the fuck Salty Stick or Moorehouse are. These names are important in your bubble, they mean nothing to me or the country as a whole.

I understand your perspective here. To me, winning is all that matters. I didn't always feel this way but here I am.

The problem is, you saw a Clinton victory as "winning."

I saw a Clinton victory as "losing," same with Trump. It didn't matter who won, we all still lost, in my opinion.

So how do you win?

Would you trade Gorsuch and Kavanaugh for two liberals, Jiggy?

Headhunter wrote:

Jigsaw wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Jigsaw wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Jigsaw wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Jigsaw wrote:I love the idea that far-left individuals who vote third party "don't seem to know" we're "helping" Republicans.

Believe me, every Democratic jackass, as soon as they hear we didn't vote for Clinton, gets on our asses about it and doesn't shut up. We know damn well what Democratic-supporting idiots think.

And you also understand the mechanism of a two party system.

So what are you calling bullshit on? I'm just laying out hard truths. You help Republicans. It is what it is. How comfortable you are with it is between you and your conscience.

"Helping Republicans" isn't how I see voting third party at all. That is a slant you are taking.

The truth is I am voting for leftist third party candidates. The truth is I dislike both Democrats and Republicans. The truth is that neither party runs candidates I have any interest in supporting.

And in your eyes, just because I am not voting for Democrats, I'm "helping Republicans."

That may be how you see it, but I do not accept that as truth.

Jig, I'm a pragmatist, not an idealist. Two parties matter. If you're taking away a vote for one, you essentially help the other. Since Republicans rely on low turnouts, your vote is as good as not showing up. You can spin it however you want, those are the consequences. 99.9% of Americans don't care who Joe Blow Socialist is, or Larry Libertarian or whoever.

I "took away" a vote from both.

No party owns our votes.

If Jill Stein wasn't on the ballot or an option to write-in, do you really think that they en masse would have voted for Clinton? Most Stein supporters I know simply wouldn't have voted, and Trump would have won anyway.

The whole "people are either Democrats or Republicans" mind-set is just ridiculous.

If Stein wasn't a choice, I would have written in Monica Moorehead (WWP). If neither Stein nor Moorehead were choices, I would have written in Mimi Soltysik (SPUSA).

If Soltysik, Stein, or Moorehead were not choices, I wouldn't have voted, period.

I don't know who the fuck Salty Stick or Moorehouse are. These names are important in your bubble, they mean nothing to me or the country as a whole.

I understand your perspective here. To me, winning is all that matters. I didn't always feel this way but here I am.

The problem is, you saw a Clinton victory as "winning."

I saw a Clinton victory as "losing," same with Trump. It didn't matter who won, we all still lost, in my opinion.

So how do you win?

Getting leftists elected locally (which is entirely possible, even in the two-party system), education, and ensuring we do our best to get spread our message.

There's a lot of problems, there's no easy fix, and we will not win over night, or probably for the next hundred years. I will be long dead by the time, if it even happens, that the leftist vision will come to be.

Voting Democratic, most of the time, doesn't lead us toward victory, because, and this is important, Democrats don't want anything similar to what most leftists want.

I see it this way - both the Republicans and Democrats support capitalism, and want to keep capitalism moving forward. I don't. Therefore, neither party represents my interests, and I have to do what I can to find a way to movie forward outside of both of them.

Headhunter wrote:Would you trade Gorsuch and Kavanaugh for two liberals, Jiggy?

I don't know if it really matters. The whole idea of the Supreme Court, no matter who's on it, doesn't strike me as particularly valuable.

I think ideals are anchors. You can't have everything in life and you can't have everything in politics either. Make the best of what's realistic and I'm content.

Jigsaw wrote:

Headhunter wrote:Would you trade Gorsuch and Kavanaugh for two liberals, Jiggy?

I don't know if it really matters. The whole idea of the Supreme Court, no matter who's on it, doesn't strike me as particularly valuable.

Really, if behind door number two you have a couple cookie cutter liberals, you wouldn't say yes? Just let it ride?

Everything has to be perfectly in sync with your ideals or just burn the whole thing down?

And I'm not on here trying to hack at your idealism. The world needs you. It needs me too. Too much of either idealists or pragmatists and the whole ship sinks.

Reign in Blood wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:

showa58taro wrote:Best thing for both parties and sides is for Kavanaugh to withdraw and for Trump to go with one of the other conservatives.

Fuck that and set precedent that you can block anyone at anytime with accusations and hearsay. If you have proof provide it if not sorry

Good talk.

Ducking signal problems. I wrote a whole thing on Gabe theory s d why it would be a rare win win if he withdraws

Headhunter wrote:

Jigsaw wrote:

Headhunter wrote:Would you trade Gorsuch and Kavanaugh for two liberals, Jiggy?

I don't know if it really matters. The whole idea of the Supreme Court, no matter who's on it, doesn't strike me as particularly valuable.

Really, if behind door number two you have a couple cookie cutter liberals, you wouldn't say yes? Just let it ride?

Everything has to be perfectly in sync with your ideals or just burn the whole thing down?

I don't need everything to be in sync with my ideals. Keep in mind, I didn't love Stein, and she wasn't my first choice.

And we're already burning down, so it doesn't really matter if a young adult in Indiana votes one way or the other.

I'm not optimistic about the future of this country or world, and I'll be honest, I don't think there's any hope. I know it's defeatist, but it's how I'm feeling at the moment.

Jigsaw wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

Jigsaw wrote:

Headhunter wrote:Would you trade Gorsuch and Kavanaugh for two liberals, Jiggy?

I don't know if it really matters. The whole idea of the Supreme Court, no matter who's on it, doesn't strike me as particularly valuable.

Really, if behind door number two you have a couple cookie cutter liberals, you wouldn't say yes? Just let it ride?

Everything has to be perfectly in sync with your ideals or just burn the whole thing down?

I don't need everything to be in sync with my ideals. Keep in mind, I didn't love Stein, and she wasn't my first choice.

And we're already burning down, so it doesn't really matter if a young adult in Indiana votes one way or the other.

I'm not optimistic about the future of this country or world, and I'll be honest, I don't think there's any hope. I know it's defeatist, but it's how I'm feeling at the moment.

Well, fair enough on Stein.

There's value in getting behind attainable goals. The problem with extreme idealism is the "all or nothing" proposition of it all. At the end of the day, you have to make sure you're happy with the way you interact with and think about the world. I've developed into such a cold motherfucker, politics are mostly a game to me and I get joy out of following the chess moves. Small victories are worth celebrating.

Jigsaw wrote:

Headhunter wrote:Ralph Nader and Jill Stein were really helpful to the cause.

I'd have rather voted for them than individuals like Gore, Kerry, Obama, or Clinton without hesitation or doubt.

You also proudly voted Obama and bought into his BS. Lol

showa58taro wrote:

Reign in Blood wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:

showa58taro wrote:Best thing for both parties and sides is for Kavanaugh to withdraw and for Trump to go with one of the other conservatives.

Fuck that and set precedent that you can block anyone at anytime with accusations and hearsay. If you have proof provide it if not sorry

Good talk.

Ducking signal problems. I wrote a whole thing on Gabe theory s d why it would be a rare win win if he withdraws

Still as incoherent as ever, if only you understood the concept of proof-reading. Gotta love phones! Oh- watch out for that pole!!!!!!!!

Jason wrote:

Jigsaw wrote:

Headhunter wrote:Ralph Nader and Jill Stein were really helpful to the cause.

I'd have rather voted for them than individuals like Gore, Kerry, Obama, or Clinton without hesitation or doubt.

You also proudly voted Obama and bought into his BS. Lol

But I have since admitted that voting for Obama was a mistake, and that if I could go back to 2012, I wouldn't have voted for him. I would think that'd count for something.

Vote Trump, 2020 and avoid all mistakes.

Jason wrote:Vote Trump, 2020 and avoid all mistakes.

If he wins the primaries, he will not be getting my vote.

Sorry.