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Re: Police: "We only kill black people"
Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 1:29 pm
by showa58taro
Reign in Blood wrote:showa58taro wrote:Reign in Blood wrote:Foo wrote:zombie wrote:Foo wrote:OF course firing people who are not performing as expected would change the culture. They have been fat and happy for too long.
so then productivity and care is not dependent on greed. there is more to it than that.
Ok. I guess I am the only person who is generally underwhelmed with their dealings with government. Glad it is the excellent experience for you that they promise.
Gotta be the only one. I got two buddies who moved their families to Europe and China, respectively. Both came back divorced, with both citing not only a cultural change, but dealing with a more infringing government etc. as big reasons.
Europe was it. How specific. Guess that proves it. Reign knows a guy who was in Europe.
He dragged his family from England to Ireland to Spain and back again. I told him Sweden was the way, but he didn't listen.
Spain is a hellhole bureaucratically speaking. So fair enough.
Re: Police: "We only kill black people"
Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 1:30 pm
by showa58taro
My point earlier was that people are often nice without it being for financial gain.
Re: Police: "We only kill black people"
Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 1:31 pm
by zombie
showa58taro wrote:My point earlier was that people are often nice without it being for financial gain.
agreed.
Re: Police: "We only kill black people"
Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 1:34 pm
by Foo
zombie wrote:Foo wrote:zombie wrote:capitalism should be based on productivity and care in the work you're doing, or service you're providing to people, and not about greed. if everyone is only driven by greed, then something needs to change on a cultural level. but i don't think that is the case.
You don't think you are ever greedy?
maybe sometimes greedy. (not necessarily money-wise) everyone has flaws or shortcomings. and those should be worked on.
Greed is good. Again, without greed, no one is going to do 90% of the jobs necessary to have a functioning first world society.
Re: Police: "We only kill black people"
Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 1:38 pm
by showa58taro
Foo wrote:zombie wrote:Foo wrote:zombie wrote:capitalism should be based on productivity and care in the work you're doing, or service you're providing to people, and not about greed. if everyone is only driven by greed, then something needs to change on a cultural level. but i don't think that is the case.
You don't think you are ever greedy?
maybe sometimes greedy. (not necessarily money-wise) everyone has flaws or shortcomings. and those should be worked on.
Greed is good. Again, without greed, no one is going to do 90% of the jobs necessary to have a functioning first world society.
That's bollocks my friend.
Re: Police: "We only kill black people"
Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 1:39 pm
by zombie
Foo wrote:zombie wrote:Foo wrote:zombie wrote:capitalism should be based on productivity and care in the work you're doing, or service you're providing to people, and not about greed. if everyone is only driven by greed, then something needs to change on a cultural level. but i don't think that is the case.
You don't think you are ever greedy?
maybe sometimes greedy. (not necessarily money-wise) everyone has flaws or shortcomings. and those should be worked on.
Greed is good. Again, without greed, no one is going to do 90% of the jobs necessary to have a functioning first world society.
so, if greed is the sole universal incentive... in the case of government employees, how would you bring them to be more productive or helpful in their jobs?
Re: Police: "We only kill black people"
Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 1:47 pm
by Foo
zombie wrote:Foo wrote:zombie wrote:Foo wrote:zombie wrote:capitalism should be based on productivity and care in the work you're doing, or service you're providing to people, and not about greed. if everyone is only driven by greed, then something needs to change on a cultural level. but i don't think that is the case.
You don't think you are ever greedy?
maybe sometimes greedy. (not necessarily money-wise) everyone has flaws or shortcomings. and those should be worked on.
Greed is good. Again, without greed, no one is going to do 90% of the jobs necessary to have a functioning first world society.
so, if greed is the sole universal incentive... in the case of government employees, how would you bring them to be more productive or helpful in their jobs?
Fire them if they don't do the job well.
Re: Police: "We only kill black people"
Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 1:48 pm
by zombie
Foo wrote:zombie wrote:Foo wrote:zombie wrote:Foo wrote:zombie wrote:capitalism should be based on productivity and care in the work you're doing, or service you're providing to people, and not about greed. if everyone is only driven by greed, then something needs to change on a cultural level. but i don't think that is the case.
You don't think you are ever greedy?
maybe sometimes greedy. (not necessarily money-wise) everyone has flaws or shortcomings. and those should be worked on.
Greed is good. Again, without greed, no one is going to do 90% of the jobs necessary to have a functioning first world society.
so, if greed is the sole universal incentive... in the case of government employees, how would you bring them to be more productive or helpful in their jobs?
Fire them if they don't do the job well.
so, there are government employees that do the job well. is it only employees earning above a certain wage? and are all employees who earn above that certain wage doing their job well?
Re: Police: "We only kill black people"
Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 2:07 pm
by Foo
zombie wrote:Foo wrote:zombie wrote:Foo wrote:zombie wrote:Foo wrote:zombie wrote:capitalism should be based on productivity and care in the work you're doing, or service you're providing to people, and not about greed. if everyone is only driven by greed, then something needs to change on a cultural level. but i don't think that is the case.
You don't think you are ever greedy?
maybe sometimes greedy. (not necessarily money-wise) everyone has flaws or shortcomings. and those should be worked on.
Greed is good. Again, without greed, no one is going to do 90% of the jobs necessary to have a functioning first world society.
so, if greed is the sole universal incentive... in the case of government employees, how would you bring them to be more productive or helpful in their jobs?
Nope, shitheads at all levels. Paying someone more does not make them less lazy and stupid. That is the fundamental flaw with the minimum wage argument.
I am hiring right now. All I ask is that people send me the answer to three questions. The vast majority will not bother to read the ad and just spam a resume. Most of those that do that will have had many jobs that last a short time.
Fire them if they don't do the job well.
so, there are government employees that do the job well. is it only employees earning above a certain wage? and are all employees who earn above that certain wage doing their job well?
Re: Police: "We only kill black people"
Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 2:14 pm
by zombie
Foo wrote:
Nope, shitheads at all levels. Paying someone more does not make them less lazy and stupid. That is the fundamental flaw with the minimum wage argument.
I am hiring right now. All I ask is that people send me the answer to three questions. The vast majority will not bother to read the ad and just spam a resume. Most of those that do that will have had many jobs that last a short time.
i think you're misrepresenting the minimum wage argument.
if paying someone more does not make them more productive, necessarily. and presumably, you can find people willing to be productive at a wage that the previous employee was not being productive... then there would seem to be some kind of incentive beyond greed.
Re: Police: "We only kill black people"
Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 2:37 pm
by Foo
I am not misrepresenting the minimum wage argument.
The minimum wage argument hinges on fantasy. The belief that forcing an employer to pay someone $15 an hour who isn't even worth $10 an hour is suddenly going to change the employee.
Re: Police: "We only kill black people"
Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 2:42 pm
by zombie
essentially lowering the wage they are earning, by not matching the increase in annual cost of living, does change the employee. it shows them that they are worth less, even though they are doing the same job at the same level of productivity.
Re: Police: "We only kill black people"
Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 2:55 pm
by Reign in Blood
zombie wrote:essentially lowering the wage they are earning, by not matching the increase in annual cost of living, does change the employee. it shows them that they are worth less, even though they are doing the same job at the same level of productivity.
The cost of living does need to be taken into account. But paying high school kids or others in low skill labor the same as someone who got a college degree is bullshit.
Re: Police: "We only kill black people"
Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 2:59 pm
by Jason
Depends on the college degree. Gender studies professionals should be unpaid.
Re: Police: "We only kill black people"
Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:02 pm
by zombie
Reign in Blood wrote:zombie wrote:essentially lowering the wage they are earning, by not matching the increase in annual cost of living, does change the employee. it shows them that they are worth less, even though they are doing the same job at the same level of productivity.
The cost of living does need to be taken into account. But paying high school kids or others in low skill labor the same as someone who got a college degree is bullshit.
agreed. it's called
minimum wage for a reason.
Re: Police: "We only kill black people"
Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:05 pm
by showa58taro
The living wage concept was not introduced to make people better.
Re: Police: "We only kill black people"
Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:09 pm
by zombie
showa58taro wrote:The living wage concept was not introduced to make people better.
maybe so, but it could be retooled to make people better.
Re: Police: "We only kill black people"
Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:13 pm
by Reign in Blood
As it rises, you gonna pay $10 for a Big Mac?
Re: Police: "We only kill black people"
Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:16 pm
by zombie
Reign in Blood wrote:As it rises, you gonna pay $10 for a Big Mac?
the price of the bigmac is increasing, regardless of whether the employee earns more, correct? doesn't that go along with the increase of cost of living?
Re: Police: "We only kill black people"
Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:18 pm
by Reign in Blood
zombie wrote:Reign in Blood wrote:As it rises, you gonna pay $10 for a Big Mac?
the price of the bigmac is increasing, regardless of whether the employee earns more, correct? doesn't that go along with the increase of cost of living?
Not necessarily, as they will replace employees with Kiosks.