Headhunter wrote:We can absolutely blame Trump for doing nothing productive for six weeks. We can also acknowledge China’s role in this while noting that focusing on them is pointless now that it’s everywhere and every government has to be accountable for their response. It’s throwing down the hose to beat up the arson. It’s Churchill bitching about Chamberlain while bombs drop on London. I’m worried about how the Trump adminstration’s incompetence made everything worse, because that was preventable.
We won't find middle ground here. China did not have a role in this. They are 100% responsible.
Do you prefer option 1 or 2?
If you were Trump, was the best way to spend those six weeks golfing, doing rallies, bitching about Democrats and downplaying the threat?
Answered many, many pages ago last night. Seb did too.
Jason wrote:Bare in mind, I am 50/50 on how to approach this. There is no right or wrong answer and still nobody addressed the two scenarios China gave us:
.
i am not a nobody.
we can blame china, and rightfully so. but it is like with illegal immigrants, or muslim terrorists. everyone that resembles them starts to get the stink eye. so be careful about it. and understand that it doesn't serve to actually solve anything, especially on your end as just a citizen with a gripe.
Headhunter wrote:We can absolutely blame Trump for doing nothing productive for six weeks. We can also acknowledge China’s role in this while noting that focusing on them is pointless now that it’s everywhere and every government has to be accountable for their response. It’s throwing down the hose to beat up the arson. It’s Churchill bitching about Chamberlain while bombs drop on London. I’m worried about how the Trump adminstration’s incompetence made everything worse, because that was preventable.
We won't find middle ground here. China did not have a role in this. They are 100% responsible.
Do you prefer option 1 or 2?
If you were Trump, was the best way to spend those six weeks golfing, doing rallies, bitching about Democrats and downplaying the threat?
Answered many, many pages ago last night. Seb did too.
Continuously implementing new members and experts of infectious diseases to the task force throughout February and March was just fine. The fact he took action when advised not to is what is remarkable, here. I would literally be an Obama fan if he was president right now and doing what Trump is doing.
zombie wrote: i don't see this as reaching, when it's on record and you can just point to that. but sure... maybe it's reaching. do you never reach, when arguing a point around here?
I reach when arguing a point, yes. I don't reach in a decision to justify poor reasoning, though, is the difference.
no one, specifically on hmf, makes a decision to justify or condemn, just for the sake of a political position. right?
I think you're the only person on the board on either side of the discussion who is not guilty of this, to be honest.
well, don't? discuss from a place of what you actually believe and hold to be true, rather than just in favor of a position or a politician.
Reign in Blood wrote:No wonder Jason can't sleep. This is a total gang rape now. Head went turncoat, Foo M.I.A, I never really helped for shit, but protected my right brothers. Now he has to fight you guys off from filling all holes. We gotta stop this.
Nah....we going for the Houston 500 record baby!
Man... the jokes fall flat in here.
I don't believe I know what you're referencing. :p
Group watch? Lmao
Is it a movie?
Hahahaha.....I thought you knew and was just fucking with me. Google it lol
Is it a band? I google Houston 500 and get nothing that seems to be relevant...
Headhunter wrote:We can absolutely blame Trump for doing nothing productive for six weeks. We can also acknowledge China’s role in this while noting that focusing on them is pointless now that it’s everywhere and every government has to be accountable for their response. It’s throwing down the hose to beat up the arson. It’s Churchill bitching about Chamberlain while bombs drop on London. I’m worried about how the Trump adminstration’s incompetence made everything worse, because that was preventable.
We won't find middle ground here. China did not have a role in this. They are 100% responsible.
Do you prefer option 1 or 2?
If you were Trump, was the best way to spend those six weeks golfing, doing rallies, bitching about Democrats and downplaying the threat?
Answered many, many pages ago last night. Seb did too.
Continuously implementing new members and experts of infectious diseases to the task force throughout February and March was just fine. The fact he took action when advised not to is what is remarkable, here. I would literally be an Obama fan if he was president right now and doing what Trump is doing.
So, you think the best course of action in those six weeks was golfing, holding rallies, bitching about Democrats, downplaying the virus and putting together a task force leading to zero policy in that window. Nothing better could have been done. Okay then. That’s...obviously insane, but okay.
Jason wrote:Bare in mind, I am 50/50 on how to approach this. There is no right or wrong answer and still nobody addressed the two scenarios China gave us:
.
i am not a nobody.
we can blame china, and rightfully so. but it is like with illegal immigrants, or muslim terrorists. everyone that resembles them starts to get the stink eye. so be careful about it. and understand that it doesn't serve to actually solve anything, especially on your end as just a citizen with a gripe.
Well which option do you think is best?
i don't know the science on either. it feels like informed speculation, more than this is what will happen, in this scenario. but between just 1) let the virus burn itself out. and 2) quarantine and flatten the curve, without all the doom and gloom that you applied to them.. i would choose option 2, while also knowing that the economy can't survive that, forever, and has to get going again at some point, whether there is still covid or not. but we don't have to be there, yet.
Reign in Blood wrote:No wonder Jason can't sleep. This is a total gang rape now. Head went turncoat, Foo M.I.A, I never really helped for shit, but protected my right brothers. Now he has to fight you guys off from filling all holes. We gotta stop this.
Nah....we going for the Houston 500 record baby!
Man... the jokes fall flat in here.
I don't believe I know what you're referencing. :p
Group watch? Lmao
Is it a movie?
Hahahaha.....I thought you knew and was just fucking with me. Google it lol
Is it a band? I google Houston 500 and get nothing that seems to be relevant...
OMG........you are being serious! Thats awesome. Look on Pornhub lol.
Jason wrote:Bare in mind, I am 50/50 on how to approach this. There is no right or wrong answer and still nobody addressed the two scenarios China gave us:
.
i am not a nobody.
we can blame china, and rightfully so. but it is like with illegal immigrants, or muslim terrorists. everyone that resembles them starts to get the stink eye. so be careful about it. and understand that it doesn't serve to actually solve anything, especially on your end as just a citizen with a gripe.
Well which option do you think is best?
i don't know the science on either. it feels like informed speculation, more than this is what will happen, in this scenario. but between just 1) let the virus burn itself out. and 2) quarantine and flatten the curve, without all the doom and gloom that you applied to them.. i would choose option 2, while also knowing that the economy can't survive that, forever, and has to get going again at some point, whether there is still covid or not. but we don't have to be there, yet.
It’s bring framed as a choice between the economy and human lives, without any consideration for the way human lives affect the economy.
Last edited by Headhunter on Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
zombie wrote: i don't see this as reaching, when it's on record and you can just point to that. but sure... maybe it's reaching. do you never reach, when arguing a point around here?
I reach when arguing a point, yes. I don't reach in a decision to justify poor reasoning, though, is the difference.
no one, specifically on hmf, makes a decision to justify or condemn, just for the sake of a political position. right?
I think you're the only person on the board on either side of the discussion who is not guilty of this, to be honest.
well, don't? discuss from a place of what you actually believe and hold to be true, rather than just in favor of a position or a politician.
I've been doing that in this discussion for 10+ pages. I was initially worried in January about how Trump was going to handle this, as he is the money/jobs president. But he far exceeded my expectations. And no matter who was president, I am now shifting blame to anyone. Every death is China's fault. Italy implemented "Hug a Chinese" Day to virtue signal. This is still China's fault, because they lied about the deadliness of this disease. Do you not remember the left calling Trump racist for implementing a travel ban in January? That's why Italy responded with Hug A Chinese Day, to show that they weren't racist and welcomed Chinese people with hugs all day on February 1st. They got hit the hardest and it's not Italy's fault for virtue signaling, it's because China lied.
Any single preventative measure that nations take outside of China should be looked at as lives saved for China's ineptitude. How we discuss what preventative measures should've been taken is totally fine, and as I said I am 50/50 on these measures, but to lay the dead of this virus at the feet of anyone but China and the WHO is flat out wrong and I will never bend there. Ever.
Headhunter wrote:We can absolutely blame Trump for doing nothing productive for six weeks. We can also acknowledge China’s role in this while noting that focusing on them is pointless now that it’s everywhere and every government has to be accountable for their response. It’s throwing down the hose to beat up the arson. It’s Churchill bitching about Chamberlain while bombs drop on London. I’m worried about how the Trump adminstration’s incompetence made everything worse, because that was preventable.
We won't find middle ground here. China did not have a role in this. They are 100% responsible.
Do you prefer option 1 or 2?
If you were Trump, was the best way to spend those six weeks golfing, doing rallies, bitching about Democrats and downplaying the threat?
Answered many, many pages ago last night. Seb did too.
Continuously implementing new members and experts of infectious diseases to the task force throughout February and March was just fine. The fact he took action when advised not to is what is remarkable, here. I would literally be an Obama fan if he was president right now and doing what Trump is doing.
So,
Stop right there. Just read what I said and don't put words in my mouth.
Headhunter wrote:We can absolutely blame Trump for doing nothing productive for six weeks. We can also acknowledge China’s role in this while noting that focusing on them is pointless now that it’s everywhere and every government has to be accountable for their response. It’s throwing down the hose to beat up the arson. It’s Churchill bitching about Chamberlain while bombs drop on London. I’m worried about how the Trump adminstration’s incompetence made everything worse, because that was preventable.
We won't find middle ground here. China did not have a role in this. They are 100% responsible.
Do you prefer option 1 or 2?
If you were Trump, was the best way to spend those six weeks golfing, doing rallies, bitching about Democrats and downplaying the threat?
Answered many, many pages ago last night. Seb did too.
Continuously implementing new members and experts of infectious diseases to the task force throughout February and March was just fine. The fact he took action when advised not to is what is remarkable, here. I would literally be an Obama fan if he was president right now and doing what Trump is doing.
So,
Stop right there. Just read what I said and don't put words in my mouth.
I’m telling you what he spent the six weeks doing. Which of those things did he not do?
Jason wrote:Bare in mind, I am 50/50 on how to approach this. There is no right or wrong answer and still nobody addressed the two scenarios China gave us:
.
i am not a nobody.
we can blame china, and rightfully so. but it is like with illegal immigrants, or muslim terrorists. everyone that resembles them starts to get the stink eye. so be careful about it. and understand that it doesn't serve to actually solve anything, especially on your end as just a citizen with a gripe.
Well which option do you think is best?
i don't know the science on either. it feels like informed speculation, more than this is what will happen, in this scenario. but between just 1) let the virus burn itself out. and 2) quarantine and flatten the curve, without all the doom and gloom that you applied to them.. i would choose option 2, while also knowing that the economy can't survive that, forever, and has to get going again at some point, whether there is still covid or not. but we don't have to be there, yet.
It’s bring framed as a choice between the economy and human lives, without any consideration for the way human lives affect the economy.
yeah, that's the doom and gloom part, that i chose to leave out of it.
Jason wrote:Bare in mind, I am 50/50 on how to approach this. There is no right or wrong answer and still nobody addressed the two scenarios China gave us:
.
i am not a nobody.
we can blame china, and rightfully so. but it is like with illegal immigrants, or muslim terrorists. everyone that resembles them starts to get the stink eye. so be careful about it. and understand that it doesn't serve to actually solve anything, especially on your end as just a citizen with a gripe.
Well which option do you think is best?
i don't know the science on either. it feels like informed speculation, more than this is what will happen, in this scenario. but between just 1) let the virus burn itself out. and 2) quarantine and flatten the curve, without all the doom and gloom that you applied to them.. i would choose option 2, while also knowing that the economy can't survive that, forever, and has to get going again at some point, whether there is still covid or not. but we don't have to be there, yet.
It is not an easy choice, is it? You've chosen to have an increased number of deaths over the long term as opposed to rapid death that allows the virus to wipe itself out as it runs out of host reservoir.
The entire world has been put into one of the toughest decisions ever made, but it's important that all blame goes to China and the WHO. If they had been honest, at least 95% of this entire pandemic would've been prevented.
Jason wrote:Bare in mind, I am 50/50 on how to approach this. There is no right or wrong answer and still nobody addressed the two scenarios China gave us:
.
i am not a nobody.
we can blame china, and rightfully so. but it is like with illegal immigrants, or muslim terrorists. everyone that resembles them starts to get the stink eye. so be careful about it. and understand that it doesn't serve to actually solve anything, especially on your end as just a citizen with a gripe.
Well which option do you think is best?
i don't know the science on either. it feels like informed speculation, more than this is what will happen, in this scenario. but between just 1) let the virus burn itself out. and 2) quarantine and flatten the curve, without all the doom and gloom that you applied to them.. i would choose option 2, while also knowing that the economy can't survive that, forever, and has to get going again at some point, whether there is still covid or not. but we don't have to be there, yet.
It’s bring framed as a choice between the economy and human lives, without any consideration for the way human lives affect the economy.
yeah, that's the doom and gloom part, that i chose to leave out of it.
In my view, economies are flexible even when suspended. It isn’t a sentient being, we can manipulate it. You can’t do anything about a massive decrease in demand resulting from mass deaths. There is no fix for that. And also, morally, you should save as many lives as possible.
Reign in Blood wrote:No wonder Jason can't sleep. This is a total gang rape now. Head went turncoat, Foo M.I.A, I never really helped for shit, but protected my right brothers. Now he has to fight you guys off from filling all holes. We gotta stop this.
Nah....we going for the Houston 500 record baby!
Man... the jokes fall flat in here.
I don't believe I know what you're referencing. :p
Group watch? Lmao
Is it a movie?
Hahahaha.....I thought you knew and was just fucking with me. Google it lol
Is it a band? I google Houston 500 and get nothing that seems to be relevant...
OMG........you are being serious! Thats awesome. Look on Pornhub lol.
lol. For fuck's sake. :p I think I get it now, I don't think I have to look it up. lol.
Headhunter wrote:We can absolutely blame Trump for doing nothing productive for six weeks. We can also acknowledge China’s role in this while noting that focusing on them is pointless now that it’s everywhere and every government has to be accountable for their response. It’s throwing down the hose to beat up the arson. It’s Churchill bitching about Chamberlain while bombs drop on London. I’m worried about how the Trump adminstration’s incompetence made everything worse, because that was preventable.
We won't find middle ground here. China did not have a role in this. They are 100% responsible.
Do you prefer option 1 or 2?
If you were Trump, was the best way to spend those six weeks golfing, doing rallies, bitching about Democrats and downplaying the threat?
Answered many, many pages ago last night. Seb did too.
Continuously implementing new members and experts of infectious diseases to the task force throughout February and March was just fine. The fact he took action when advised not to is what is remarkable, here. I would literally be an Obama fan if he was president right now and doing what Trump is doing.
So,
Stop right there. Just read what I said and don't put words in my mouth.
I’m telling you what he spent the six weeks doing. Which of those things did he not do?
He implemented more and more experts to learn about the disease and what the best course of action would be. You act like you're mad at him for not being in the lab, creating a vaccine. He is not an infectious disease expert. This is why he implemented a team of dozens of people who are the best at the world at learning about this. That's what he did, and he continued implementing people through February and March, and will probably continue adding more and more people. I don't know what you want from me.
Jason wrote:
I've been doing that in this discussion for 10+ pages. I was initially worried in January about how Trump was going to handle this, as he is the money/jobs president. But he far exceeded my expectations. And no matter who was president, I am now shifting blame to anyone. Every death is China's fault. Italy implemented "Hug a Chinese" Day to virtue signal. This is still China's fault, because they lied about the deadliness of this disease. Do you not remember the left calling Trump racist for implementing a travel ban in January? That's why Italy responded with Hug A Chinese Day, to show that they weren't racist and welcomed Chinese people with hugs all day on February 1st. They got hit the hardest and it's not Italy's fault for virtue signaling, it's because China lied.
Any single preventative measure that nations take outside of China should be looked at as lives saved for China's ineptitude. How we discuss what preventative measures should've been taken is totally fine, and as I said I am 50/50 on these measures, but to lay the dead of this virus at the feet of anyone but China and the WHO is flat out wrong and I will never bend there. Ever.
who is not doing that, then? not posting from a position of what they actually see to be happening, and their point of view on it?
well, is it productive to shout that china is at fault, as just a person with a gripe? what is the discussion there? what can we learn there, to not do in the future? and what effect does it have on people in our own country that are chinese, or even asian.. because a lot of people will just lump everyone in, that has a similar look.
Jason wrote:Bare in mind, I am 50/50 on how to approach this. There is no right or wrong answer and still nobody addressed the two scenarios China gave us:
.
i am not a nobody.
we can blame china, and rightfully so. but it is like with illegal immigrants, or muslim terrorists. everyone that resembles them starts to get the stink eye. so be careful about it. and understand that it doesn't serve to actually solve anything, especially on your end as just a citizen with a gripe.
Well which option do you think is best?
i don't know the science on either. it feels like informed speculation, more than this is what will happen, in this scenario. but between just 1) let the virus burn itself out. and 2) quarantine and flatten the curve, without all the doom and gloom that you applied to them.. i would choose option 2, while also knowing that the economy can't survive that, forever, and has to get going again at some point, whether there is still covid or not. but we don't have to be there, yet.
It’s bring framed as a choice between the economy and human lives, without any consideration for the way human lives affect the economy.
yeah, that's the doom and gloom part, that i chose to leave out of it.
In my view, economies are flexible even when suspended. It isn’t a sentient being, we can manipulate it. You can’t do anything about a massive decrease in demand resulting from mass deaths. There is no fix for that. And also, morally, you should save as many lives as possible.
If you want to save as many lives as possible, the best option could very easily be to let the virus burn through the host reservoir quickly and kill itself to ensure it doesn't become endemic and potentially kill people every year for the rest of time.
