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Tiggnutz wrote: look at it from her friends perspective as I'm aware there's 4 people this attack took 3 of them in a room leaving just her by herself. Would her friend remember leaving her there with 2 guys one she says she didn't know. I personally would remember leaving my friend far from home with 2 other people or I would remember leaving with her possibly in distress. This is my speculation but you see where I'm going.

well, as i understand it, two guys came forward about assaulting her? so we can work with the understanding that it did take place even if not kavanaugh. so someone had to bring her there and take her home, no?

zombie wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote: look at it from her friends perspective as I'm aware there's 4 people this attack took 3 of them in a room leaving just her by herself. Would her friend remember leaving her there with 2 guys one she says she didn't know. I personally would remember leaving my friend far from home with 2 other people or I would remember leaving with her possibly in distress. This is my speculation but you see where I'm going.

well, as i understand it, two guys came forward about assaulting her? so we can work with the understanding that it did take place even if not kavanaugh. so someone had to bring her there and take her home, no?

Like anything I won't believe these 2 guys without proof it could be people with other motives.

Tiggnutz wrote:

zombie wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote: look at it from her friends perspective as I'm aware there's 4 people this attack took 3 of them in a room leaving just her by herself. Would her friend remember leaving her there with 2 guys one she says she didn't know. I personally would remember leaving my friend far from home with 2 other people or I would remember leaving with her possibly in distress. This is my speculation but you see where I'm going.

well, as i understand it, two guys came forward about assaulting her? so we can work with the understanding that it did take place even if not kavanaugh. so someone had to bring her there and take her home, no?

Like anything I won't believe these 2 guys without proof it could be people with other motives.

well, we are all about speculating her motive. what do you think the motive be for the two guys coming forward to admit they raped her?

Also, let's be real about the level of trauma here. The most credible part of her story is actually that the assault is not super high on the scale of what an assault could be.

For that reason, I tend to think something did happen to her at some point. I also see her as being a flakey, fucked up person who is probably on meds and may have had lots of instances in her life. No evidence compels me to believe Kavanaugh assaulted her, though.

What she is claiming to have transpired may have been traumatic, but it is hard to imagine being so compartmentalized to that tiny moment, and not recalling anything about how you got home, as that would be every bit as traumatic. You feel you were just assaulted, and now you are in a strange place with no way home. Would seem like you would recall a little about that.

And I am a little curious about how her social media footprint was wiped so clean and her use of encryption to send messages to news outlets. I don't think that diminishes her claims of a sexual assault, but it does seem a little weird. Even stuff like professor reviews by students are wiped from view, rather than simply locked.

Foo wrote:Also, let's be real about the level of trauma here. The most credible part of her story is actually that the assault is not super high on the scale of what an assault could be.

For that reason, I tend to think something did happen to her at some point. I also see her as being a flakey, fucked up person who is probably on meds and may have had lots of instances in her life. No evidence compels me to believe Kavanaugh assaulted her, though.

What she is claiming to have transpired may have been traumatic, but it is hard to imagine being so compartmentalized to that tiny moment, and not recalling anything about how you got home, as that would be every bit as traumatic. You feel you were just assaulted, and now you are in a strange place with no way home. Would seem like you would recall a little about that.

could she flakey and fucked up, as you say, and on meds because of something happening to her?

it's not hard for me to imagine being that compartmentalized. i have been, even pretty recently. vastly different circumstances though. and also, remember that this happened a long time ago too. so she may have been focused more on the assault or rape, than on how she got there or how she got home.

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:Also, let's be real about the level of trauma here. The most credible part of her story is actually that the assault is not super high on the scale of what an assault could be.

For that reason, I tend to think something did happen to her at some point. I also see her as being a flakey, fucked up person who is probably on meds and may have had lots of instances in her life. No evidence compels me to believe Kavanaugh assaulted her, though.

What she is claiming to have transpired may have been traumatic, but it is hard to imagine being so compartmentalized to that tiny moment, and not recalling anything about how you got home, as that would be every bit as traumatic. You feel you were just assaulted, and now you are in a strange place with no way home. Would seem like you would recall a little about that.

could she flakey and fucked up, as you say, and on meds because of something happening to her?

it's not hard for me to imagine being that compartmentalized. i have been, even pretty recently. vastly different circumstances though. and also, remember that this happened a long time ago too. so she may have been focused more on the assault or rape, than on how she got there or how she got home.

Yes, I am sure many things have happened to her. If I was to guess, she was probably also traumatized the last time she went to Panera Bread and they were out of her favorite soup and it was the worst moment of her life. Just a guess.

Were you raped recently and do not recall how you got back home?

BTW, can someone start supporting Maxine Waters for the Senate? I feel like she could have added a lot of spice to that hearing.

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:Also, let's be real about the level of trauma here. The most credible part of her story is actually that the assault is not super high on the scale of what an assault could be.

For that reason, I tend to think something did happen to her at some point. I also see her as being a flakey, fucked up person who is probably on meds and may have had lots of instances in her life. No evidence compels me to believe Kavanaugh assaulted her, though.

What she is claiming to have transpired may have been traumatic, but it is hard to imagine being so compartmentalized to that tiny moment, and not recalling anything about how you got home, as that would be every bit as traumatic. You feel you were just assaulted, and now you are in a strange place with no way home. Would seem like you would recall a little about that.

could she flakey and fucked up, as you say, and on meds because of something happening to her?

it's not hard for me to imagine being that compartmentalized. i have been, even pretty recently. vastly different circumstances though. and also, remember that this happened a long time ago too. so she may have been focused more on the assault or rape, than on how she got there or how she got home.

Yes, I am sure many things have happened to her. If I was to guess, she was probably also traumatized the last time she went to Panera Bread and they were out of her favorite soup and it was the worst moment of her life. Just a guess.

Were you raped recently and do not recall how you got back home?

so, this is not about speculating what happened. it's about mocking her.

yes, of course i was. that is the very reason that i said "vastly different circumstances".

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:Also, let's be real about the level of trauma here. The most credible part of her story is actually that the assault is not super high on the scale of what an assault could be.

For that reason, I tend to think something did happen to her at some point. I also see her as being a flakey, fucked up person who is probably on meds and may have had lots of instances in her life. No evidence compels me to believe Kavanaugh assaulted her, though.

What she is claiming to have transpired may have been traumatic, but it is hard to imagine being so compartmentalized to that tiny moment, and not recalling anything about how you got home, as that would be every bit as traumatic. You feel you were just assaulted, and now you are in a strange place with no way home. Would seem like you would recall a little about that.

could she flakey and fucked up, as you say, and on meds because of something happening to her?

it's not hard for me to imagine being that compartmentalized. i have been, even pretty recently. vastly different circumstances though. and also, remember that this happened a long time ago too. so she may have been focused more on the assault or rape, than on how she got there or how she got home.

Yes, I am sure many things have happened to her. If I was to guess, she was probably also traumatized the last time she went to Panera Bread and they were out of her favorite soup and it was the worst moment of her life. Just a guess.

Were you raped recently and do not recall how you got back home?

so, this is not about speculating what happened. it's about mocking her.

yes, of course i was. that is the very reason that i said "vastly different circumstances".

I can't try to discover the truth and mock her? I already said I think something happened to her. I also think she could believe it was Kavanaugh. There just isn't much there to think it was.

Well, she was groped over her clothing. So if you were raped, it would be vastly different. Not saying it is cool if she was groped, but lets be real about trauma levels here.

As a groping survivor, I feel I can be critical of other groping survivors.

Foo wrote:
I can't try to discover the truth and mock her? I already said I think something happened to her. I also think she could believe it was Kavanaugh. There just isn't much there to think it was.

Well, she was groped over her clothing. So if you were raped, it would be vastly different. Not saying it is cool if she was groped, but lets be real about trauma levels here.

i think mocking a victim, that you even acknowledge was probably a victim, would be something to avoid doing. *shrug*

"real about trauma levels" <-- what's your metric for determining just how deeply an event will damage someone, and of how that damage manifests in someone?

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:
I can't try to discover the truth and mock her? I already said I think something happened to her. I also think she could believe it was Kavanaugh. There just isn't much there to think it was.

Well, she was groped over her clothing. So if you were raped, it would be vastly different. Not saying it is cool if she was groped, but lets be real about trauma levels here.

i think mocking a victim, that you even acknowledge was probably a victim, would be something to avoid doing. *shrug*

"real about trauma levels" <-- what's your metric for determining just how deeply an event will damage someone, and of how that damage manifests in someone?

Don't comedies frequently make fun of the unfortunate circumstances of others? Why not add levity to otherwise serious situations?

I pretty much model my life after Vince McMahon. So I think WWVD? Some people go through incredible tragedy and difficulty and emerge stronger, and others are given mayo when they ordered mustard on a sandwich and they spend the next 6 months moping on twitter and getting adjustments to their meds to cope.

And yes, if this person was groped over their clothing while drinking with boys 36 years ago, it is time to move on. Sorry. Her innocence was not lost to a rapey uncle.

people are going to be affected differently by similar trauma, even if you don't think so.

zombie wrote:people are going to be affected differently by similar trauma, even if you don't think so.

Is it everyone else's problem because a person can't cope?

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:people are going to be affected differently by similar trauma, even if you don't think so.

Is it everyone else's problem because a person can't cope?

i don't even know what you're trying to get at.

punish based on what was done or not done, to her. treat her or help her to cope with the scars caused by what was done to her. those are two different things.

I want to pose a hypothetical outside of the scotus thing.

If you are making out with a woman and touch her privates without explicit consent, what should the punishment be for that?

if there was making out already and she didn't stop you, it was probably consensual. if you felt hesitation or resistance and you were serious about a relationship with the girl, i would ask her about why she may be uncomfortable.

Foo wrote:I want to pose a hypothetical outside of the scotus thing.

If you are making out with a woman and touch her privates without explicit consent, what should the punishment be for that?

Castration. Same as for. Rapists. Obv