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Headhunter wrote:It’s always going to be some awful stuff that moves the needle but I’m never going to hold the powerless fighting back to the same standard as the powerful crushing the powerless. I think that’s the scale to evaluate these things on.

yeah, that's the way to evaluate it. what that means, or what is acceptable or justified in that, is going to vary from person to person. but one group in a position of state granted authority and power over another group should be held to a different standard.

Bus drivers in Brooklyn refused to transport arrested protesters.

Headhunter wrote:Bus drivers in Brooklyn refused to transport arrested protesters.

That's what I call solidarity.

It’s fantastic to see such outrage at vile scum murdering innocent citizens.

One can only hope it leads to some change. Though I feel, much like Fergusonbefore it, that change may still be hard come by, but hopefully the needle moves. They have achieved something by rioting. Hopefully it continues to move the dial more.

there has to be systemic change within the police force. sometimes you have to become monsters to fight monsters. but let's don't pretend that you're not monsters, when you do. let's not excuse or ignore what you did to innocents when you became a monster. riots move the wheels of history, but it also rolls over innocents.

zombie wrote:there has to be systemic change within the police force. sometimes you have to become monsters to fight monsters. but let's don't pretend that you're not monsters, when you do. let's not excuse or ignore what you did to innocents when you became a monster. riots move the wheels of history, but it also rolls over innocents.

Would be interesting to compare innocents hurt by riots vs innocents hurt by police brutality. Certainly one where I haven’t got the numbers.

All the black communities who lost everything and lives were ruined the last couple days would be comforted by knowing you guys are excited and are cool with their sacrifices. When they dont have a place to buy food or medicine knowing a bunch of white people safe in their homes in their non burned out neighborhoods have their backs will definitely ease the suffering.

Tiggnutz wrote:All the black communities who lost everything and lives were ruined the last couple days would be comforted by knowing you guys are excited and are cool with their sacrifices. When they dont have a place to buy food or medicine knowing a bunch of white people safe in their homes in their non burned out neighborhoods have their backs will definitely ease the suffering.

It’s a fair challenge. I’m certainly unaffected by these riots.

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:there has to be systemic change within the police force. sometimes you have to become monsters to fight monsters. but let's don't pretend that you're not monsters, when you do. let's not excuse or ignore what you did to innocents when you became a monster. riots move the wheels of history, but it also rolls over innocents.

Would be interesting to compare innocents hurt by riots vs innocents hurt by police brutality. Certainly one where I haven’t got the numbers.

we call it out when cops hurt innocents. as we should, every time. what i see is trying to excuse or dismiss when riots hurt innocents. and we should not. any time.

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:there has to be systemic change within the police force. sometimes you have to become monsters to fight monsters. but let's don't pretend that you're not monsters, when you do. let's not excuse or ignore what you did to innocents when you became a monster. riots move the wheels of history, but it also rolls over innocents.

Would be interesting to compare innocents hurt by riots vs innocents hurt by police brutality. Certainly one where I haven’t got the numbers.

we call it out when cops hurt innocents. as we should, every time. what i see is trying to excuse or dismiss when riots hurt innocents. and we should not. any time.

For me it’s not excusing it as such. It’s acknowledging that it has a legitimate purpose beyond destruction.

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:there has to be systemic change within the police force. sometimes you have to become monsters to fight monsters. but let's don't pretend that you're not monsters, when you do. let's not excuse or ignore what you did to innocents when you became a monster. riots move the wheels of history, but it also rolls over innocents.

Would be interesting to compare innocents hurt by riots vs innocents hurt by police brutality. Certainly one where I haven’t got the numbers.

we call it out when cops hurt innocents. as we should, every time. what i see is trying to excuse or dismiss when riots hurt innocents. and we should not. any time.

For me it’s not excusing it as such. It’s acknowledging that it has a legitimate purpose beyond destruction.

does that justify the destruction? does that make the destruction an acceptable loss?

also consider that the symptom (the riot and outrage) may take all the focus from the cause, that actually needs to change (the murder by a cop)

Well, people are looking for any excuse to not care about it anyway, so that’s true. They’re relieved that they can stop feigning outrage over the murder.

Unfortunately ignorance is the problem. A problem that can't be easily solved. Racism will always be with us. All white people were not slave owners. Not all black people are thugs and criminals. Chinese people in the US are not the originators of this virus. All Mexicans are not illegal.

When your own president is condoning rioting and looting, therein lies the problem. People standing in the middle of the streets getting hit by SUVs (Saw it on Yahoo!) is not smart. Businesses did not perpetuate the officer's actions. One bad cop doesn't make all cops evil. As long as we live in a world with these generalized blanket beliefs in ignorance, stuff like this will continue to happen.

I do not condone what one man did. I'm not going to protest, stand in the middle of the steet or riot or loot. Those things are still illegal. Doing something destructive and against the law is not going to bring Floyd back. It's not gonna make me feel better. I don't see the point. All lives matter. The world is a scary, dangerous place. We could all die by violence, disease or one day nukes. No one is safe. No one is immune.

Best we can do is take care of ourselves, solve things logically and peacefully. Til then, tje world's gonna still go to hell in a handbasket. I have no solutiions, just vision. Ideas. The world needs to change, but as long as stupid people do stupid things, evil people do evil things, not much else we can do. It just sucks.

Tiggnutz wrote:All the black communities who lost everything and lives were ruined the last couple days would be comforted by knowing you guys are excited and are cool with their sacrifices. When they dont have a place to buy food or medicine knowing a bunch of white people safe in their homes in their non burned out neighborhoods have their backs will definitely ease the suffering.

I thought you couldn’t speak for them...

Headhunter wrote:Well, people are looking for any excuse to not care about it anyway, so that’s true. They’re relieved that they can stop feigning outrage over the murder.

nothing is going to change for the minority unless they get the majority on their side. i guess we have to ask if the minority destroying property and hurting innocents (including their own communities) in the midst of their protest and riot, will bring the majority in this country to side with them.

dave626 wrote:Unfortunately ignorance is the problem. A problem that can't be easily solved. Racism will always be with us. All white people were not slave owners. Not all black people are thugs and criminals. Chinese people in the US are not the originators of this virus. All Mexicans are not illegal.

When your own president is condoning rioting and looting, therein lies the problem. People standing in the middle of the streets getting hit by SUVs (Saw it on Yahoo!) is not smart. Businesses did not perpetuate the officer's actions. One bad cop doesn't make all cops evil. As long as we live in a world with these generalized blanket beliefs in ignorance, stuff like this will continue to happen.

I do not condone what one man did. I'm not going to protest, stand in the middle of the steet or riot or loot. Those things are still illegal. Doing something destructive and against the law is not going to bring Floyd back. It's not gonna make me feel better. I don't see the point. All lives matter. The world is a scary, dangerous place. We could all die by violence, disease or one day nukes. No one is safe. No one is immune.

Best we can do is take care of ourselves, solve things logically and peacefully. Til then, tje world's gonna still go to hell in a handbasket. I have no solutiions, just vision. Ideas. The world needs to change, but as long as stupid people do stupid things, evil people do evil things, not much else we can do. It just sucks.

i think the best we can do, from our obviously limited position, is speak up when we see a problem. and don't just look the other way. and don't excuse more problems in the desire to see the one problem addressed and changed.

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:Well, people are looking for any excuse to not care about it anyway, so that’s true. They’re relieved that they can stop feigning outrage over the murder.

nothing is going to change for the minority unless they get the majority on their side. i guess we have to ask if the minority destroying property and hurting innocents (including their own communities) in the midst of their protest and riot, will bring the majority in this country to side with them.

Gotta make white people comfortable to get anything done.

Fuck them. They never cared in the first place. They couldn’t be more happy to have an excuse to stop talking about the murder. Needing to bend over backwards to please those people is why nothing changes.

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:Well, people are looking for any excuse to not care about it anyway, so that’s true. They’re relieved that they can stop feigning outrage over the murder.

nothing is going to change for the minority unless they get the majority on their side. i guess we have to ask if the minority destroying property and hurting innocents (including their own communities) in the midst of their protest and riot, will bring the majority in this country to side with them.

Gotta make white people comfortable to get anything done.

Fuck them. They never cared in the first place. They couldn’t be more happy to have an excuse to stop talking about the murder. Needing to bend over backwards to please those people is why nothing changes.

that's not what i said.

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:Well, people are looking for any excuse to not care about it anyway, so that’s true. They’re relieved that they can stop feigning outrage over the murder.

nothing is going to change for the minority unless they get the majority on their side. i guess we have to ask if the minority destroying property and hurting innocents (including their own communities) in the midst of their protest and riot, will bring the majority in this country to side with them.

Gotta make white people comfortable to get anything done.

Fuck them. They never cared in the first place. They couldn’t be more happy to have an excuse to stop talking about the murder. Needing to bend over backwards to please those people is why nothing changes.

that's not what i said.

Sure. Who is “the majority”?