HorrorMovieFans.com

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:there has to be systemic change within the police force. sometimes you have to become monsters to fight monsters. but let's don't pretend that you're not monsters, when you do. let's not excuse or ignore what you did to innocents when you became a monster. riots move the wheels of history, but it also rolls over innocents.

Would be interesting to compare innocents hurt by riots vs innocents hurt by police brutality. Certainly one where I haven’t got the numbers.

we call it out when cops hurt innocents. as we should, every time. what i see is trying to excuse or dismiss when riots hurt innocents. and we should not. any time.

For me it’s not excusing it as such. It’s acknowledging that it has a legitimate purpose beyond destruction.

does that justify the destruction? does that make the destruction an acceptable loss?

It accepts it rather than justifying it.

would you still accept it, if it was your community or your family?

Yes

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:People should also probably spend more energy being outraged at private equity firms that gut businesses from the inside and take away hundreds of thousands if not millions of jobs than they are about property damage that is insured. These greedy fucks do more looting then any protesters could ever hope to, and they’re rewarded for it.

considering the bigger problem is also not what the protestors and looters are doing. *shrug*

Not all of them, sure.

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:there has to be systemic change within the police force. sometimes you have to become monsters to fight monsters. but let's don't pretend that you're not monsters, when you do. let's not excuse or ignore what you did to innocents when you became a monster. riots move the wheels of history, but it also rolls over innocents.

Would be interesting to compare innocents hurt by riots vs innocents hurt by police brutality. Certainly one where I haven’t got the numbers.

we call it out when cops hurt innocents. as we should, every time. what i see is trying to excuse or dismiss when riots hurt innocents. and we should not. any time.

For me it’s not excusing it as such. It’s acknowledging that it has a legitimate purpose beyond destruction.

does that justify the destruction? does that make the destruction an acceptable loss?

It accepts it rather than justifying it.

would you still accept it, if it was your community or your family?

Yes

fair enough. i would want them to get the needed change. and if it led to damage or harm of innocents, i would want those who caused that damage and harm to be held accountable. i guess we'll just have to differ on this.

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:People should also probably spend more energy being outraged at private equity firms that gut businesses from the inside and take away hundreds of thousands if not millions of jobs than they are about property damage that is insured. These greedy fucks do more looting then any protesters could ever hope to, and they’re rewarded for it.

considering the bigger problem is also not what the protestors and looters are doing. *shrug*

Not all of them, sure.

they're reacting to a grievance, and not thinking it through. but i hope they get the change they need and can rebound both from their own actions and from the actions of that asshole murderer cop.

Indeed. Can’t all be aligned all the time. I hear your point and it’s valid. I just don’t agree philosophically. The facts are the same luckily. At least we agree that far.

My take is this....

If our elected officials (repubs AND dems alike) would do a better job of trying to fix police brutality, we would not be having riots. That's is the root of the cause. You just cant blame looters. That is being dishonest when people do that. We need to focus on the cause of the riots. Obviously, no matter of the color is skin, cops are getting away with literal murder unless it is caught on video. Being a cop is a very stressful and insanely hard job to do. But they work for us, to protect us, not bully people over dumb shit.

Jmac Attack wrote:My take is this....

If our elected officials (repubs AND dems alike) would do a better job of trying to fix police brutality, we would not be having riots. That's is the root of the cause. You just cant blame looters. That is being dishonest when people do that. We need to focus on the cause of the riots. Obviously, no matter of the color is skin, cops are getting away with literal murder unless it is caught on video. Being a cop is a very stressful and insanely hard job to do. But they work for us, to protect us, not bully people over dumb shit.

"you can't just blame looters" (as opposed to "just can't") is what i hope you meant. that would be dishonest, agreed.

zombie wrote:

Jmac Attack wrote:My take is this....

If our elected officials (repubs AND dems alike) would do a better job of trying to fix police brutality, we would not be having riots. That's is the root of the cause. You just cant blame looters. That is being dishonest when people do that. We need to focus on the cause of the riots. Obviously, no matter of the color is skin, cops are getting away with literal murder unless it is caught on video. Being a cop is a very stressful and insanely hard job to do. But they work for us, to protect us, not bully people over dumb shit.

"you can't just blame looters" (as opposed to "just can't") is what i hope you meant. that would be dishonest, agreed.

Yeah, that's what I meant. It's not just one thing. We need to look at the root of the problem, not just the tree.

Jmac Attack wrote:

zombie wrote:

Jmac Attack wrote:My take is this....

If our elected officials (repubs AND dems alike) would do a better job of trying to fix police brutality, we would not be having riots. That's is the root of the cause. You just cant blame looters. That is being dishonest when people do that. We need to focus on the cause of the riots. Obviously, no matter of the color is skin, cops are getting away with literal murder unless it is caught on video. Being a cop is a very stressful and insanely hard job to do. But they work for us, to protect us, not bully people over dumb shit.

"you can't just blame looters" (as opposed to "just can't") is what i hope you meant. that would be dishonest, agreed.

Yeah, that's what I meant. It's not just one thing. We need to look at the root of the problem, not just the tree.

agreed, from both sides. cops aren't the root problem. and looters are just a symptom of the root problem.

zombie wrote:

Jmac Attack wrote:

zombie wrote:

Jmac Attack wrote:My take is this....

If our elected officials (repubs AND dems alike) would do a better job of trying to fix police brutality, we would not be having riots. That's is the root of the cause. You just cant blame looters. That is being dishonest when people do that. We need to focus on the cause of the riots. Obviously, no matter of the color is skin, cops are getting away with literal murder unless it is caught on video. Being a cop is a very stressful and insanely hard job to do. But they work for us, to protect us, not bully people over dumb shit.

"you can't just blame looters" (as opposed to "just can't") is what i hope you meant. that would be dishonest, agreed.

Yeah, that's what I meant. It's not just one thing. We need to look at the root of the problem, not just the tree.

agreed, from both sides. cops aren't the root problem. and looters are just a symptom of the root problem.

Yup! Our leaders need to act, and stop lip servicing the Anerican people. But also, at the same time, in the past week or maybe two, we've seen a black man gunned down for jogging. And another black man had to deal with a white woman calling the cops saying he was threatening her and her dog when he asked her to put her dog on a leash. If you watch the video, she was obviously shaking (you could hear it in her voice). All the guy was doing is something I would have done while bird watching. Seems like a good guy. He even said he felt uncomfortable for her losing her job over it. But, she could have caused this man to be hurt or unfairly arrested. Good thing he recorded it just in case.

The entire criminal justice system is broken. Cops are just the enforcers. This is a country where people profit off filling prisons.

Jmac Attack wrote:

zombie wrote:

Jmac Attack wrote:

zombie wrote:

Jmac Attack wrote:My take is this....

If our elected officials (repubs AND dems alike) would do a better job of trying to fix police brutality, we would not be having riots. That's is the root of the cause. You just cant blame looters. That is being dishonest when people do that. We need to focus on the cause of the riots. Obviously, no matter of the color is skin, cops are getting away with literal murder unless it is caught on video. Being a cop is a very stressful and insanely hard job to do. But they work for us, to protect us, not bully people over dumb shit.

"you can't just blame looters" (as opposed to "just can't") is what i hope you meant. that would be dishonest, agreed.

Yeah, that's what I meant. It's not just one thing. We need to look at the root of the problem, not just the tree.

agreed, from both sides. cops aren't the root problem. and looters are just a symptom of the root problem.

Yup! Our leaders need to act, and stop lip servicing the Anerican people. But also, at the same time, in the past week or maybe two, we've seen a black man gunned down for jogging. And another black man had to deal with a white woman calling the cops saying he was threatening her and her dog when he asked her to put her dog on a leash. If you watch the video, she was obviously shaking (you could hear it in her voice). All the guy was doing is something I would have done while bird watching. Seems like a good guy. He even said he felt uncomfortable for her losing her job over it. But, she could have caused this man to be hurt or unfairly arrested. Good thing he recorded it just in case.

there needs to be a lot of change in this country. cops are just people. if people change on the whole, cops will change with them. i don't know how to do that. but violence just makes people shut down and react with more violence. we need to do something different, in ourselves... from those of us in a position, that isn't caught up into that violence at least at this point.

as for the community, if it goes to shit... cops can be replaced by more cops. businesses can pull out and operate elsewhere if they're big enough. but the people in the community can't, at least the majority can't. they are going to have to live with whatever damage is done. something beyond violence meeting violence needs to be done.

seeing some people on facebook and twitter talking about needing to buy a gun. i don't know if that's a reaction to the looters and rioting, or to the police action... but it is something worth noting.

Clearly this country doesn’t have enough guns already.

well, i haven't heard of non-violent ways to change the system being advocated. i've heard a lot of support and advocating of violent ways to change the system. guns could only help to bring that advocated violence along.

More guns. Only way to stop a good guy with a gun is becoming a bad guy with a gun.

does a good guy with a gun even exist?

zombie wrote:well, i haven't heard of non-violent ways to change the system being advocated. i've heard a lot of support and advocating of violent ways to change the system. guns could only help to bring that advocated violence along.

Breaking windows to shooting people is quite the leap.

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:well, i haven't heard of non-violent ways to change the system being advocated. i've heard a lot of support and advocating of violent ways to change the system. guns could only help to bring that advocated violence along.

Breaking windows to shooting people is quite the leap.

but does it matter how the change is worked toward, or not?

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:

zombie wrote:well, i haven't heard of non-violent ways to change the system being advocated. i've heard a lot of support and advocating of violent ways to change the system. guns could only help to bring that advocated violence along.

Breaking windows to shooting people is quite the leap.

but does it matter how the change is worked toward, or not?

That isn’t how this works.