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If true, while he needs to be held accountable, I'm not gonna solely judge people based on the stupid shit we did in high school.

Reign in Blood wrote:If true, while he needs to be held accountable, I'm not gonna solely judge people based on the stupid shit we did in high school.

What do you suggest? He can only be a judge in non-female cases?

Going to tell you a personal story:

Was 16 and my parents were out of town. Had some people over to play games. In the course of the night, everyone was kind of wandering around watching movies, using my gym equipment, etc. Four people ended up laying in my bed (was a waterbed which is not that common so they were lounging in it).

So throughout the night, a girl who I had been in school with for years, but did not know outside of name was around and enjoying herself. We ended up in the bed with other people, it was dark with music on. When I would say something funny, she would flirt and touch me. Because of others on the bed, we were over lapping a little bit anyway. At some point she left her hand on me and then started to gently rub my shoulder.

Others left the bed and we stayed. The touching increased, but we were positioned in sort of a strange way with my head closer to her chest than her head and she was much shorter. After awhile, she puts her leg across my chest and is running her fingers through my hair and touching my face. I am rubbing her calf but we are not saying anything, just laying in the dark massaging each other.

She pushes herself down and starts massaging my chest. My hands are now going up past her knee. Again she slides lower, and her hand and on my stomach. The massaging his been going on for like an hour, again, without words. My hand is working its way further up and now her foot is on my package. As my hand is now at the crotch of her jeans, she tightly closes her thighs together on it. I stop my hand, but then she starts putting her finger around my lips and mouth and I start kissing it and such. I start to gently and quickly squeeze her thighs while she has my hand trapped.

She slides down a little more and I my other hand can now reach her waist. I am basically sliding my fingers up into her shirt about two inches. Just to feel her skin. I find a spot on her back that tickled a little and she asked me to lick her there. Literally a second later, someone yells upstairs that they have to go. It is the person who brought her. As she gets up to leave, I am really in no state to walk, but I my hand is on her as she gets her clothing and hair adjusted to leave. We don't really say anything, but she seems very reluctant to go as she holds my hand.

*cut to the next day*

We have one class together. Before class we don't say anything, but during class she basically asked me out on a date. I am not dating anyone, but I had been long interested in someone else. It was prom season, and felt like it was finally my chance to just asked that person out. I told the girl exactly that. In retrospect, it was harsh and possibly wrong. Although we had barely exchanged words and never really kissed even, it was clearly a mixed message.

This is 25 years ago for me. Might she recall that incident differently? Neither of us ever asked for consent to touch the other. She even stopped my hand at one point with force and I proceeded to attempt to stimulate her. Might the actions of the next day change the way that night was remembered? How about later when she sees me with someone else or perhaps receiving praise for being a nice person?

Is it possible my account of the situation is inaccurate? What if she really felt uncomfortable the whole time? What if she felt scared or trapped and I didn't know? Could you call a moment of that viewed out of context as assault?

showa58taro wrote:

Reign in Blood wrote:If true, while he needs to be held accountable, I'm not gonna solely judge people based on the stupid shit we did in high school.

What do you suggest? He can only be a judge in non-female cases?

I am gonna suggest that we only hold people accountable for actions we can prove.

The accuser has now named three other people at this alleged incident, and none of them recall it, being there, or even being around her.

showa58taro wrote:

Reign in Blood wrote:If true, while he needs to be held accountable, I'm not gonna solely judge people based on the stupid shit we did in high school.

What do you suggest? He can only be a judge in non-female cases?

What, non-female cases? Because he clearly hates women and has it out for them or summat?

Reign in Blood wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Reign in Blood wrote:If true, while he needs to be held accountable, I'm not gonna solely judge people based on the stupid shit we did in high school.

What do you suggest? He can only be a judge in non-female cases?

What, non-female cases? Because he clearly hates women and has it out for them or summat?

I assume Seb is gonna ask those two drag queens Obama appointed to never judge a case involving a man, so it will alll even out!

Foo wrote:Going to tell you a personal story:

Was 16 and my parents were out of town. Had some people over to play games. In the course of the night, everyone was kind of wandering around watching movies, using my gym equipment, etc. Four people ended up laying in my bed (was a waterbed which is not that common so they were lounging in it).

So throughout the night, a girl who I had been in school with for years, but did not know outside of name was around and enjoying herself. We ended up in the bed with other people, it was dark with music on. When I would say something funny, she would flirt and touch me. Because of others on the bed, we were over lapping a little bit anyway. At some point she left her hand on me and then started to gently rub my shoulder.

Others left the bed and we stayed. The touching increased, but we were positioned in sort of a strange way with my head closer to her chest than her head and she was much shorter. After awhile, she puts her leg across my chest and is running her fingers through my hair and touching my face. I am rubbing her calf but we are not saying anything, just laying in the dark massaging each other.

She pushes herself down and starts massaging my chest. My hands are now going up past her knee. Again she slides lower, and her hand and on my stomach. The massaging his been going on for like an hour, again, without words. My hand is working its way further up and now her foot is on my package. As my hand is now at the crotch of her jeans, she tightly closes her thighs together on it. I stop my hand, but then she starts putting her finger around my lips and mouth and I start kissing it and such. I start to gently and quickly squeeze her thighs while she has my hand trapped.

She slides down a little more and I my other hand can now reach her waist. I am basically sliding my fingers up into her shirt about two inches. Just to feel her skin. I find a spot on her back that tickled a little and she asked me to lick her there. Literally a second later, someone yells upstairs that they have to go. It is the person who brought her. As she gets up to leave, I am really in no state to walk, but I my hand is on her as she gets her clothing and hair adjusted to leave. We don't really say anything, but she seems very reluctant to go as she holds my hand.

*cut to the next day*

We have one class together. Before class we don't say anything, but during class she basically asked me out on a date. I am not dating anyone, but I had been long interested in someone else. It was prom season, and felt like it was finally my chance to just asked that person out. I told the girl exactly that. In retrospect, it was harsh and possibly wrong. Although we had barely exchanged words and never really kissed even, it was clearly a mixed message.

This is 25 years ago for me. Might she recall that incident differently? Neither of us ever asked for consent to touch the other. She even stopped my hand at one point with force and I proceeded to attempt to stimulate her. Might the actions of the next day change the way that night was remembered? How about later when she sees me with someone else or perhaps receiving praise for being a nice person?

Is it possible my account of the situation is inaccurate? What if she really felt uncomfortable the whole time? What if she felt scared or trapped and I didn't know? Could you call a moment of that viewed out of context as assault?

What the fuck is this? In that hour of not saying shit and massaging, you could have smashed, and give her a real reason to fix her hair and leave. This chick was DTF, tell me you got the other girl to go to prom with you at least.

Foo wrote:Going to tell you a personal story:

Was 16 and my parents were out of town. Had some people over to play games. In the course of the night, everyone was kind of wandering around watching movies, using my gym equipment, etc. Four people ended up laying in my bed (was a waterbed which is not that common so they were lounging in it).

So throughout the night, a girl who I had been in school with for years, but did not know outside of name was around and enjoying herself. We ended up in the bed with other people, it was dark with music on. When I would say something funny, she would flirt and touch me. Because of others on the bed, we were over lapping a little bit anyway. At some point she left her hand on me and then started to gently rub my shoulder.

Others left the bed and we stayed. The touching increased, but we were positioned in sort of a strange way with my head closer to her chest than her head and she was much shorter. After awhile, she puts her leg across my chest and is running her fingers through my hair and touching my face. I am rubbing her calf but we are not saying anything, just laying in the dark massaging each other.

She pushes herself down and starts massaging my chest. My hands are now going up past her knee. Again she slides lower, and her hand and on my stomach. The massaging his been going on for like an hour, again, without words. My hand is working its way further up and now her foot is on my package. As my hand is now at the crotch of her jeans, she tightly closes her thighs together on it. I stop my hand, but then she starts putting her finger around my lips and mouth and I start kissing it and such. I start to gently and quickly squeeze her thighs while she has my hand trapped.

She slides down a little more and I my other hand can now reach her waist. I am basically sliding my fingers up into her shirt about two inches. Just to feel her skin. I find a spot on her back that tickled a little and she asked me to lick her there. Literally a second later, someone yells upstairs that they have to go. It is the person who brought her. As she gets up to leave, I am really in no state to walk, but I my hand is on her as she gets her clothing and hair adjusted to leave. We don't really say anything, but she seems very reluctant to go as she holds my hand.

*cut to the next day*

We have one class together. Before class we don't say anything, but during class she basically asked me out on a date. I am not dating anyone, but I had been long interested in someone else. It was prom season, and felt like it was finally my chance to just asked that person out. I told the girl exactly that. In retrospect, it was harsh and possibly wrong. Although we had barely exchanged words and never really kissed even, it was clearly a mixed message.

This is 25 years ago for me. Might she recall that incident differently? Neither of us ever asked for consent to touch the other. She even stopped my hand at one point with force and I proceeded to attempt to stimulate her. Might the actions of the next day change the way that night was remembered? How about later when she sees me with someone else or perhaps receiving praise for being a nice person?

Is it possible my account of the situation is inaccurate? What if she really felt uncomfortable the whole time? What if she felt scared or trapped and I didn't know? Could you call a moment of that viewed out of context as assault?

it sounds like she was interested in you. it doesn't sound like assault from the details given. she may have been nervous. but that could be because of her age, or also because she didn't really know you.

this should not be used to dismiss all possibility of sexual assault stories, however.

Reign in Blood wrote:

Foo wrote:Going to tell you a personal story:

Was 16 and my parents were out of town. Had some people over to play games. In the course of the night, everyone was kind of wandering around watching movies, using my gym equipment, etc. Four people ended up laying in my bed (was a waterbed which is not that common so they were lounging in it).

So throughout the night, a girl who I had been in school with for years, but did not know outside of name was around and enjoying herself. We ended up in the bed with other people, it was dark with music on. When I would say something funny, she would flirt and touch me. Because of others on the bed, we were over lapping a little bit anyway. At some point she left her hand on me and then started to gently rub my shoulder.

Others left the bed and we stayed. The touching increased, but we were positioned in sort of a strange way with my head closer to her chest than her head and she was much shorter. After awhile, she puts her leg across my chest and is running her fingers through my hair and touching my face. I am rubbing her calf but we are not saying anything, just laying in the dark massaging each other.

She pushes herself down and starts massaging my chest. My hands are now going up past her knee. Again she slides lower, and her hand and on my stomach. The massaging his been going on for like an hour, again, without words. My hand is working its way further up and now her foot is on my package. As my hand is now at the crotch of her jeans, she tightly closes her thighs together on it. I stop my hand, but then she starts putting her finger around my lips and mouth and I start kissing it and such. I start to gently and quickly squeeze her thighs while she has my hand trapped.

She slides down a little more and I my other hand can now reach her waist. I am basically sliding my fingers up into her shirt about two inches. Just to feel her skin. I find a spot on her back that tickled a little and she asked me to lick her there. Literally a second later, someone yells upstairs that they have to go. It is the person who brought her. As she gets up to leave, I am really in no state to walk, but I my hand is on her as she gets her clothing and hair adjusted to leave. We don't really say anything, but she seems very reluctant to go as she holds my hand.

*cut to the next day*

We have one class together. Before class we don't say anything, but during class she basically asked me out on a date. I am not dating anyone, but I had been long interested in someone else. It was prom season, and felt like it was finally my chance to just asked that person out. I told the girl exactly that. In retrospect, it was harsh and possibly wrong. Although we had barely exchanged words and never really kissed even, it was clearly a mixed message.

This is 25 years ago for me. Might she recall that incident differently? Neither of us ever asked for consent to touch the other. She even stopped my hand at one point with force and I proceeded to attempt to stimulate her. Might the actions of the next day change the way that night was remembered? How about later when she sees me with someone else or perhaps receiving praise for being a nice person?

Is it possible my account of the situation is inaccurate? What if she really felt uncomfortable the whole time? What if she felt scared or trapped and I didn't know? Could you call a moment of that viewed out of context as assault?

What the fuck is this? In that hour of not saying shit and massaging, you could have smashed, and give her a real reason to fix her hair and leave. This chick was DTF, tell me you got the other girl to go to prom with you at least.

Yes, and we dated for like a year. Had it went further that night, who knows...

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:Going to tell you a personal story:

Was 16 and my parents were out of town. Had some people over to play games. In the course of the night, everyone was kind of wandering around watching movies, using my gym equipment, etc. Four people ended up laying in my bed (was a waterbed which is not that common so they were lounging in it).

So throughout the night, a girl who I had been in school with for years, but did not know outside of name was around and enjoying herself. We ended up in the bed with other people, it was dark with music on. When I would say something funny, she would flirt and touch me. Because of others on the bed, we were over lapping a little bit anyway. At some point she left her hand on me and then started to gently rub my shoulder.

Others left the bed and we stayed. The touching increased, but we were positioned in sort of a strange way with my head closer to her chest than her head and she was much shorter. After awhile, she puts her leg across my chest and is running her fingers through my hair and touching my face. I am rubbing her calf but we are not saying anything, just laying in the dark massaging each other.

She pushes herself down and starts massaging my chest. My hands are now going up past her knee. Again she slides lower, and her hand and on my stomach. The massaging his been going on for like an hour, again, without words. My hand is working its way further up and now her foot is on my package. As my hand is now at the crotch of her jeans, she tightly closes her thighs together on it. I stop my hand, but then she starts putting her finger around my lips and mouth and I start kissing it and such. I start to gently and quickly squeeze her thighs while she has my hand trapped.

She slides down a little more and I my other hand can now reach her waist. I am basically sliding my fingers up into her shirt about two inches. Just to feel her skin. I find a spot on her back that tickled a little and she asked me to lick her there. Literally a second later, someone yells upstairs that they have to go. It is the person who brought her. As she gets up to leave, I am really in no state to walk, but I my hand is on her as she gets her clothing and hair adjusted to leave. We don't really say anything, but she seems very reluctant to go as she holds my hand.

*cut to the next day*

We have one class together. Before class we don't say anything, but during class she basically asked me out on a date. I am not dating anyone, but I had been long interested in someone else. It was prom season, and felt like it was finally my chance to just asked that person out. I told the girl exactly that. In retrospect, it was harsh and possibly wrong. Although we had barely exchanged words and never really kissed even, it was clearly a mixed message.

This is 25 years ago for me. Might she recall that incident differently? Neither of us ever asked for consent to touch the other. She even stopped my hand at one point with force and I proceeded to attempt to stimulate her. Might the actions of the next day change the way that night was remembered? How about later when she sees me with someone else or perhaps receiving praise for being a nice person?

Is it possible my account of the situation is inaccurate? What if she really felt uncomfortable the whole time? What if she felt scared or trapped and I didn't know? Could you call a moment of that viewed out of context as assault?

it sounds like she was interested in you. it doesn't sound like assault from the details given. she may have been nervous. but that could be because of her age, or also because she didn't really know you.

this should not be used to dismiss all possibility of sexual assault stories, however.

After 25 years, might her account be different than mine? Could both feelings as well as details change after 25 years?

Might circumstances after that night change our memories? What about her stopping my hand? Was that an attempted assault?

Foo wrote:[

After 25 years, might her account be different than mine? Could both feelings as well as details change after 25 years?

Might circumstances after that night change our memories? What about her stopping my hand? Was that an attempted assault?

it's all possible. whether something is consensual or not is tricky, especially after years pass. if it's only one accuser or one incident and not clearly assault. (like the brock turner thing or something) then it's really up for debate, if you wanna.

zombie wrote: this should not be used to dismiss all possibility of sexual assault stories, however.

Because that's what we do, dismiss them all. I read this last week sometime, and it's completely fucked. https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics ... 34aed7d25d

It still sticks with me. It's definitely TL;DR, but I'm sure you'll read it, zombs.

Reign in Blood wrote:

zombie wrote: this should not be used to dismiss all possibility of sexual assault stories, however.

Because that's what we do, dismiss them all. I read this last week sometime, and it's completely fucked. https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics ... 34aed7d25d

It still sticks with me. It's definitely TL;DR, but I'm sure you'll read it, zombs.

foo seems to dismiss a lot, or defend those accused. *shrug*

will get back to you on that link, after i give it a look through.

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:[

After 25 years, might her account be different than mine? Could both feelings as well as details change after 25 years?

Might circumstances after that night change our memories? What about her stopping my hand? Was that an attempted assault?

it's all possible. whether something is consensual or not is tricky, especially after years pass. if it's only one accuser or one incident and not clearly assault. (like the brock turner thing or something) then it's really up for debate, if you wanna.

Do you agree that without evidence, or even worse, with poor evidence, these situations become pointless to pursue after many years?

?

I went to New Orleans for anew Years when I was 21. While there a girl asked to kiss me for beads. I consented. She stuck her tongue in my mouth and grabbed my penis, which I did not. I sent to. Am I the victim of a sexual assault? Should this girl be removed from consideration for future employment?

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:[

After 25 years, might her account be different than mine? Could both feelings as well as details change after 25 years?

Might circumstances after that night change our memories? What about her stopping my hand? Was that an attempted assault?

it's all possible. whether something is consensual or not is tricky, especially after years pass. if it's only one accuser or one incident and not clearly assault. (like the brock turner thing or something) then it's really up for debate, if you wanna.

Do you agree that without evidence, or even worse, with poor evidence, these situations become pointless to pursue after many years?

?

i guess so. it feels wrong to just let those who actually were wronged to just suffer knowing they can't come forward to at least let it known that they were abused, even if they don't name their attacker. but it is really hard to prove, even just after it happened, and they are pushed not to talk about it, either by parents / family or by the community. it's a shitty situation.

Foo wrote:I went to New Orleans for anew Years when I was 21. While there a girl asked to kiss me for beads. I consented. She stuck her tongue in my mouth and grabbed my penis, which I did not. I sent to. Am I the victim of a sexual assault? Should this girl be removed from consideration for future employment?

Ya know, it's interesting. A chick at work and I would having a conversation about this shiz the other day, and she said every woman she knows has been sexually assaulted. I was surprised and was like "not just cat calls, or maybe a pinch on the butt". No, assaulted. I was like, well I've never sexually assaulted a woman but had my dick grabbed unexpectedly and from women I didn't particularly want it from, I didn't make a federal case of it. She's all "You're a guy, it's different"... is it, fuck!

I told her, #MeToo, the excuse for all womenz bitchin'.

Reign in Blood wrote:

zombie wrote: this should not be used to dismiss all possibility of sexual assault stories, however.

Because that's what we do, dismiss them all. I read this last week sometime, and it's completely fucked. https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics ... 34aed7d25d

It still sticks with me. It's definitely TL;DR, but I'm sure you'll read it, zombs.

i'll have to finish reading that later, but yeah. definitely fucked.

Reign in Blood wrote:

Foo wrote:I went to New Orleans for anew Years when I was 21. While there a girl asked to kiss me for beads. I consented. She stuck her tongue in my mouth and grabbed my penis, which I did not. I sent to. Am I the victim of a sexual assault? Should this girl be removed from consideration for future employment?

Ya know, it's interesting. A chick at work and I would having a conversation about this shiz the other day, and she said every woman she knows has been sexually assaulted. I was surprised and was like "not just cat calls, or maybe a pinch on the butt". No, assaulted. I was like, well I've never sexually assaulted a woman but had my dick grabbed unexpectedly and from women I didn't particularly want it from, I didn't make a federal case of it. She's all "You're a guy, it's different"... is it, fuck!

I told her, #MeToo, the excuse for all womenz bitchin'.

rape or assault toward guys should not be shrugged off or dismissed like that. it can affect them and hurt them, the same as it can for a girl.

Reign in Blood wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Reign in Blood wrote:If true, while he needs to be held accountable, I'm not gonna solely judge people based on the stupid shit we did in high school.

What do you suggest? He can only be a judge in non-female cases?

What, non-female cases? Because he clearly hates women and has it out for them or summat?

If found guilty that is. That was your stipulation. That he is guilty but he’s not too guilty since he was young. I’m just asking what you’d do.