Foo wrote:Have you considered his pass completion percentage is a function of his skill running the ball? Qbs run up high completion percentages in part because they are throwing so many check down passes. For Tebow, those became runs.
I would wager that his yards per completion is very high.
No. I sure didn't, nobody else did either. Those checkdown passes were wounded ducks in the dirt all year, not runs. Take it from someone who watched the team every week. He also had the greatest negative impact as a rushing QB across the NFL, bottom of the league in rushing DYAR for a QB in 2011.
Yards/completion? Why are you cherrypicking from the statistic that actually matters, yards/attempt? Or Adjusted Net Yards/Attempt, that works too. Yards/completion means jack shit.
Now acting like his running ability was not a big asset is just making you appear crazy, and willing to say anything that discredits the guy.
I am saying a guy with his record of winning in the NFL is worthy of a backup job when you compare him to the bottom half of backups in the league. You are saying a guy who took a horrible team and turned them into a playoff team with a win in the playoffs is somehow among the worst ever. Think about how far you are now taking this.
Foo wrote:Have you considered his pass completion percentage is a function of his skill running the ball? Qbs run up high completion percentages in part because they are throwing so many check down passes. For Tebow, those became runs.
I would wager that his yards per completion is very high.
No. I sure didn't, nobody else did either. Those checkdown passes were wounded ducks in the dirt all year, not runs. Take it from someone who watched the team every week. He also had the greatest negative impact as a rushing QB across the NFL, bottom of the league in rushing DYAR for a QB in 2011.
Yards/completion? Why are you cherrypicking from the statistic that actually matters, yards/attempt? Or Adjusted Net Yards/Attempt, that works too. Yards/completion means jack shit.
Now acting like his running ability was not a big asset is just making you appear crazy, and willing to say anything that discredits the guy.
I am saying a guy with his record of winning in the NFL is worthy of a backup job when you compare him to the bottom half of backups in the league. You are saying a guy who took a horrible team and turned them into a playoff team with a win in the playoffs is somehow among the worst ever. Think about how far you are now taking this.
Would you like to take a gander at Tebow's success rate as a runner since you're so convinced I'm making shit up? It's not good at all.
No. You don't use a fluke stretch that included terrible play from said QB to justify keeping around a guy who doesn't have the talent to be on a 53 man roster. It's a waste of a spot and a total insult to anyone who actually has a chance to stick in the league at QB in some way. Think about how far you've taken it by not conceding that Tebow sucked. Make no mistake, you're the one who looks insane for thinking otherwise.
Looking back, you loved Josh McDaniels, thought Tebow would be a franchise QB, and you hated the hire of John Elway as GM. How big of a dumpster fire would the Broncos be at this point had they followed your plan for the future?
But really, why did you decide Tebow was the hill you were going to die on against all logic? I get he's a likable person and easy to root for, but there's nothing to debate about his NFL career. The media spotlight got him more of an opportunity than he ever deserved and he saw that opportunity through. Just sour grapes to now complain when he didn't take advantage. Did you also ride or die with Tommie Frazier, Chris Weinke and Danny Wuerrfel?
Foo wrote:Rank the following QBs based on the order in which you would have them enter a tied game in the 4th quarter:
- Matt Barkley
- Tim Tebow
- TJ Yates
- Blaine Gabbert
- Scott Tolzien
You wanted to compare him to the 2016 Most Valuable Player earlier . . .
Definitely taking Yates and Gabbert over Tebow. Yates is the ideal backup for those situations as he's pretty steady and predictable, Gabbert has the talent of a starter but it's not a complete package but can still make things happen with an off balance defense. Barkley is pretty awful so that one is close but 2016 Barkley was still better than 2011 Tebow. Tolzien I honestly couldn't say. I can't recall even seeing him play. You can take that one if you want.
Now let's stop disrespecting the 2011 guys who actually made it and give them some love, as they are the ones who rebuilt the Broncos' winning culture, not a guy who didn't even last long enough to collect a pension.
Demaryius Thomas parlayed his breakout into becoming a consensus top 10 NFL receiver for the next five years.
Chris Harris Jr. just continued to get better and better and now he's the best corner in the league. Back then, he was a feisty sure tackler who was just late to the plays he'd make later in his career.
Von Miller became the biggest star of a defensive player in the NFL four years later, already up to 5 All-Pro honors in just 6 years.
Matt Prater is still a raging alcoholic from what I understand, but goddamn was he money that year.
Foo wrote:They are great players. Let's not disregard that Tim Tebow gave them hope that season. Without Tebow, they give up.
That's a complete assumption and not one based in anything a player on that team has said. I already outlined how coaches and players were frustrated with him all season long. You are creating a movie in your mind, but it isn't the true story of the 2011 Broncos.
A true leader doesn't force your defense to practice at a low level to compensate for his shortcomings. "Don't pick on Tim, Chris. Dial it back. They need to get some work done today." Imagine that! A young undrafted rookie trying to break into the league can't practice as hard as he wants to because the team needs to pull out all the stops just for Tebow to have a chance to not be utterly miserable at QB. Selfish. And you wonder why the Broncos move on? None of that gimmicky run was sustainable and the culture it fostered on the practice field was bad for the team as a whole.
Foo wrote:Why were they a stinking cesspool with someone you would consider to be a far superior qb, then magically become good with a terrible qb? Kinda weird.
It's really not weird unless you have a preconceived agenda you need to subscribe faithfully to. Of note: The Tebow-led Broncos were blown out four times in thirteen games. The Orton-led Broncos were blown out once in five games. One-score games are coin flips and not reliable models. Blowouts are reliable though.
So, what is Tebow? Is he one of the worst backups in the league as you alluded to a few posts ago? Is he a franchise QB, as you alluded to when you suggested Ryan Clady move to right tackle in 2012? I can't figure out the degree to which you accept how terribad he was, you're all over the map.
Foo wrote:Why were they a stinking cesspool with someone you would consider to be a far superior qb, then magically become good with a terrible qb? Kinda weird.
It's really not weird unless you have a preconceived agenda you need to subscribe faithfully to. Of note: The Tebow-led Broncos were blown out four times in thirteen games. The Orton-led Broncos were blown out once in five games. One-score games are coin flips and not reliable models. Blowouts are reliable though.
So, what is Tebow? Is he one of the worst backups in the league as you alluded to a few posts ago? Is he a franchise QB, as you alluded to when you suggested Ryan Clady move to right tackle in 2012? I can't figure out the degree to which you accept how terribad he was, you're all over the map.
Congrats in being the only Bronco fan in the world who would have continued with Kyle Orton that season.
I believe Tebow is an NFL qb. Is he an elite starter? No. When the season starts, look at the 96 Qbs on rosters and tell me with Tebow winning record in his only opportunity, he should not be in the league at that position. Winning an NFL playoff game puts you at a certain level. Look around the league and you see it is the same guys doing it every year.
If my starter went down, I would rather have Tebow go in to pull a game from the jaws of defeat than just about any other backup. You have seen he can rise to occasions and is fearless.
Foo wrote:Why were they a stinking cesspool with someone you would consider to be a far superior qb, then magically become good with a terrible qb? Kinda weird.
It's really not weird unless you have a preconceived agenda you need to subscribe faithfully to. Of note: The Tebow-led Broncos were blown out four times in thirteen games. The Orton-led Broncos were blown out once in five games. One-score games are coin flips and not reliable models. Blowouts are reliable though.
So, what is Tebow? Is he one of the worst backups in the league as you alluded to a few posts ago? Is he a franchise QB, as you alluded to when you suggested Ryan Clady move to right tackle in 2012? I can't figure out the degree to which you accept how terribad he was, you're all over the map.
Congrats in being the only Bronco fan in the world who would have continued with Kyle Orton that season.
I believe Tebow is an NFL qb. Is he an elite starter? No. When the season starts, look at the 96 Qbs on rosters and tell me with Tebow winning record in his only opportunity, he should not be in the league at that position. Winning an NFL playoff game puts you at a certain level. Look around the league and you see it is the same guys doing it every year.
If my starter went down, I would rather have Tebow go in to pull a game from the jaws of defeat than just about any other backup. You have seen he can rise to occasions and is fearless.
Congrats on creating yet another obnoxious strawman because you can't ever prove your point. Why not just respond to what I actually posted instead of imagining the arguments you'd like me to make? Is it really that hard? I guess if you're going to bat for an awful player like Tebow, it is pretty hard.
We've gone from being in the same league as the 2016 MVP, to a low level backup, to "not an elite starter", man you've really given ground on this wide range of takes. Moving those goalposts all over the field! I can't tell if you think he's a top 5 QB, top 15 or one of the worst in the league. I'll go with the latter, it's the only argument you could make with a straight face at least. As far as that "certain level" goes, please roll out the red carpet for Brock Osweiler, noted playoff winner. What level of greatness is he at?
"Fearless!" "A tour de force!" "A slam-bang action thriller!" Have I seen one of your riveting quotes on a DVD at the grocery store?
Last edited by Headhunter on Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There are 96 guys who easily deserve an oppprtunity over Tebow. Tim Tebow is bad for the locker room, bad for young receivers, bad for the fellow QBs. Poison for everyone.
Tebow should have been undrafted but your boy Josh McDaniels, one of the worst coaches in NFL history, couldn't help himself. Tebow has the media to thank for ever getting the opportunities he got in the NFL at the expense of more worthy players. He has always been a media whore. Predictably he blew his shot, something you can expect from a bad player. Move on like the NFL did.
There were numerous coaches who loved Tebow. He was drafted in the first round where many thought he would go.
Tommie Frazier was going to die on the field if he played football. That is why he was never an NFL prospect as soon as the blood clot things started happening. No one is going to draft a running qb with that issue, you can't even play in the NBA with that problem because it requires blood thinners to treat. Tim Tebow is durable.
Foo wrote:There were numerous coaches who loved Tebow. He was drafted in the first round where many thought he would go.
Tommie Frazier was going to die on the field if he played football. That is why he was never an NFL prospect as soon as the blood clot things started happening. No one is going to draft a running qb with that issue, you can't even play in the NBA with that problem because it requires blood thinners to treat. Tim Tebow is durable.
Great comparison.
Where are your goalposts planted at present time, Fooskey? Is Tebow the 2017 MVP, just a shade below "elite" or one of the worst backups in the league? Figure it out already because it's tough to keep up with.
Every person who considered Tebow a first round prospect was an idiot. In the end he was so bad, he only stuck on the team that drafted him in the first for two years, which is unheard of for a first rounder.
Flutie was an 11th rounder. Detmer was a 9th rounder. Torretta a 7th rounder.
All of them were capable of throwing a football, at least relative to Tebow's total inability to do so. As I said, any scouts who considered him a first rounder were idiots who deserved to be fired from their jobs. That you would so proudly boast about one of the worst coaches in NFL history picking him doesn't inspire much either, although I recognize you loved McD and think it was a mistake to fire him and bring in Elway.
