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Tiggnutz wrote:

showa58taro wrote:Neither if you has offered up a single original idea for the problem here. Manchester attacked was a British citizen raised in the U.K. So Foo saying we flung open the doors is a massive irrelevance. As is any "extreme vetting" lauded for immigrants or refugees.

If anything the problem is you guys and what your divisive rhetoric does to fuel division between us and those of our very mmunity that feel abandoned and persecuted by the rest.

I can almost hear the violins from here. Islamic extremism isn't about feeling abandoned or not having a good job it's about wanting everyone on earth to live by your rules and believe in what you believe in or killing them. Maybe if we are nicer to them they will stop blowing children up. Maybe the holocaust could of been avoided with a really special Hallmark card and a hug.

The doctrine may not be but most of the recruits are exactly in that position.

The entire point of ISIS is that it relies on no nation state or location the way Nazism did. And hence it needs to draw volunteers freely to their cause from within the west.

showa58taro wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:

showa58taro wrote:Neither if you has offered up a single original idea for the problem here. Manchester attacked was a British citizen raised in the U.K. So Foo saying we flung open the doors is a massive irrelevance. As is any "extreme vetting" lauded for immigrants or refugees.

If anything the problem is you guys and what your divisive rhetoric does to fuel division between us and those of our very mmunity that feel abandoned and persecuted by the rest.

I can almost hear the violins from here. Islamic extremism isn't about feeling abandoned or not having a good job it's about wanting everyone on earth to live by your rules and believe in what you believe in or killing them. Maybe if we are nicer to them they will stop blowing children up. Maybe the holocaust could of been avoided with a really special Hallmark card and a hug.

The doctrine may not be but most of the recruits are exactly in that position.

The entire point of ISIS is that it relies on no nation state or location the way Nazism did. And hence it needs to draw volunteers freely to their cause from within the west.

There are just certain things in life that cannot be fought with butterflies and rainbows they must be eradicated down to the last molecule. Islamic extremism is a carbon copy of Nazi idealism. Whether political or religious it's the same. Kill everyone you deem inferior. Fortunately for history there were not many leaders saying " hold on let's look at this from a Nazi perspective maybe they are just misunderstood let's try and be friends"

Where do you find all the hay needed to
Construct that straw man?

Tiggnutz wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:

showa58taro wrote:Neither if you has offered up a single original idea for the problem here. Manchester attacked was a British citizen raised in the U.K. So Foo saying we flung open the doors is a massive irrelevance. As is any "extreme vetting" lauded for immigrants or refugees.

If anything the problem is you guys and what your divisive rhetoric does to fuel division between us and those of our very mmunity that feel abandoned and persecuted by the rest.

I can almost hear the violins from here. Islamic extremism isn't about feeling abandoned or not having a good job it's about wanting everyone on earth to live by your rules and believe in what you believe in or killing them. Maybe if we are nicer to them they will stop blowing children up. Maybe the holocaust could of been avoided with a really special Hallmark card and a hug.

The doctrine may not be but most of the recruits are exactly in that position.

The entire point of ISIS is that it relies on no nation state or location the way Nazism did. And hence it needs to draw volunteers freely to their cause from within the west.

There are just certain things in life that cannot be fought with butterflies and rainbows they must be eradicated down to the last molecule. Islamic extremism is a carbon copy of Nazi idealism. Whether political or religious it's the same. Kill everyone you deem inferior. Fortunately for history there were not many leaders saying " hold on let's look at this from a Nazi perspective maybe they are just misunderstood let's try and be friends"

Total straw man, the part about the Nazis isn't particularly true either, and also another case in which you seem to conflate discussing an issue with taking a stance.

Also, no ideological base is more important than the neee to survive. Most join ISIS primarily because they're poor as shit, that's just reality. It's not "taking their side". It's not "feeling sympathy". We're adults here, let's think like adults. We live in a nuanced world where it is in fact possible to honestly outline the underlying causes of horrible institutions without defending them.

Just because you think something is awful doesn't mean you can't discuss it thoroughly. An honest approach is best, not an approach where we're afraid to even discuss.

Headhunter wrote:Also, no ideological base is more important than the neee to survive. Most join ISIS primarily because they're poor as shit, that's just reality. It's not "taking their side". It's not "feeling sympathy". We're adults here, let's think like adults. We live in a nuanced world where it is in fact possible to honestly outline the underlying causes of horrible institutions without defending them.

Just because you think something is awful doesn't mean you can't discuss it thoroughly. An honest approach is best, not an approach where we're afraid to even discuss.

You can give these people 99.9 percent of the world and say we will just stay in the .1 percent that's left and it wouldn't make any difference when your existence is was they hate. You can discuss it as much as you want and look at it from every angle and perspective you want it doesn't change reality.

Why do terrorist consistently attach countries that do nothing but bend over backwards to accommodate them? Being accommodated is not the goal that's why transforming it into what they want is the goal.

Tiggnutz wrote:Why do terrorist consistently attach countries that do nothing but bend over backwards to accommodate them? Being accommodated is not the goal that's why transforming it into what they want is the goal.

Exactly. The more "progressive" and accepting they are, it just results in harder bites in the ass.

the mindset that all muslims hate the united states (or the west) on principle, and that is the reason there is al quaeda or isis or whatever is extremely flawed in my opinion. correct me if that's not what you're trying to say.

creating worse conditions in the middle east, taking things from them, trying to "bring them democracy" by force are reasons why they're lashing out. (and not the only reasons, i'm sure) it doesn't excuse their actions, but it could help to start toward a solution. rather than just blow them up and hate them all. that isn't going to do anything but keep the problem going.

zombie wrote:the mindset that all muslims hate the united states (or the west) on principle, and that is the reason there is al quaeda or isis or whatever is extremely flawed in my opinion. correct me if that's not what you're trying to say.

creating worse conditions in the middle east, taking things from them, trying to "bring them democracy" by force are reasons why they're lashing out. (and not the only reasons, i'm sure) it doesn't excuse their actions, but it could help to start toward a solution. rather than just blow them up and hate them all. that isn't going to do anything but keep the problem going.

I have not heard anyone say all Muslims absolutes in terms of anything is non productive.

Tiggnutz wrote:

zombie wrote:the mindset that all muslims hate the united states (or the west) on principle, and that is the reason there is al quaeda or isis or whatever is extremely flawed in my opinion. correct me if that's not what you're trying to say.

creating worse conditions in the middle east, taking things from them, trying to "bring them democracy" by force are reasons why they're lashing out. (and not the only reasons, i'm sure) it doesn't excuse their actions, but it could help to start toward a solution. rather than just blow them up and hate them all. that isn't going to do anything but keep the problem going.

I have not heard anyone say all Muslims absolutes in terms of anything is non productive.

Like assuming all white people are decedents of slave owners or all Germans are decedent's of Nazis or all black people are decedent's of slaves.

Tiggnutz wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:

zombie wrote:the mindset that all muslims hate the united states (or the west) on principle, and that is the reason there is al quaeda or isis or whatever is extremely flawed in my opinion. correct me if that's not what you're trying to say.

creating worse conditions in the middle east, taking things from them, trying to "bring them democracy" by force are reasons why they're lashing out. (and not the only reasons, i'm sure) it doesn't excuse their actions, but it could help to start toward a solution. rather than just blow them up and hate them all. that isn't going to do anything but keep the problem going.

I have not heard anyone say all Muslims absolutes in terms of anything is non productive.

Like assuming all white people are decedents of slave owners or all Germans are decedent's of Nazis or all black people are decedent's of slaves.

"descendants" and agreed. blaming the whole group for the actions of an extreme few does not help anything at all. and that seems to be what is being said though?

"You can give these people 99.9 percent of the world and say we will just stay in the .1 percent that's left and it wouldn't make any difference when your existence is was they hate. You can discuss it as much as you want and look at it from every angle and perspective you want it doesn't change reality." <--- i don't know any other way to read that post?

zombie wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:

zombie wrote:the mindset that all muslims hate the united states (or the west) on principle, and that is the reason there is al quaeda or isis or whatever is extremely flawed in my opinion. correct me if that's not what you're trying to say.

creating worse conditions in the middle east, taking things from them, trying to "bring them democracy" by force are reasons why they're lashing out. (and not the only reasons, i'm sure) it doesn't excuse their actions, but it could help to start toward a solution. rather than just blow them up and hate them all. that isn't going to do anything but keep the problem going.

I have not heard anyone say all Muslims absolutes in terms of anything is non productive.

Like assuming all white people are decedents of slave owners or all Germans are decedent's of Nazis or all black people are decedent's of slaves.

"descendants" and agreed. blaming the whole group for the actions of an extreme few does not help anything at all. and that seems to be what is being said though?

"You can give these people 99.9 percent of the world and say we will just stay in the .1 percent that's left and it wouldn't make any difference when your existence is was they hate. You can discuss it as much as you want and look at it from every angle and perspective you want it doesn't change reality." <--- i don't know any other way to read that post?

Islamic extremist not muslims in general zombs

Tiggnutz wrote:

zombie wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:

zombie wrote:the mindset that all muslims hate the united states (or the west) on principle, and that is the reason there is al quaeda or isis or whatever is extremely flawed in my opinion. correct me if that's not what you're trying to say.

creating worse conditions in the middle east, taking things from them, trying to "bring them democracy" by force are reasons why they're lashing out. (and not the only reasons, i'm sure) it doesn't excuse their actions, but it could help to start toward a solution. rather than just blow them up and hate them all. that isn't going to do anything but keep the problem going.

I have not heard anyone say all Muslims absolutes in terms of anything is non productive.

Like assuming all white people are decedents of slave owners or all Germans are decedent's of Nazis or all black people are decedent's of slaves.

"descendants" and agreed. blaming the whole group for the actions of an extreme few does not help anything at all. and that seems to be what is being said though?

"You can give these people 99.9 percent of the world and say we will just stay in the .1 percent that's left and it wouldn't make any difference when your existence is was they hate. You can discuss it as much as you want and look at it from every angle and perspective you want it doesn't change reality." <--- i don't know any other way to read that post?

Islamic extremist not muslims in general zombs

The people killing people not the general religion

Tiggnutz wrote:

zombie wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:

Tiggnutz wrote:

zombie wrote:the mindset that all muslims hate the united states (or the west) on principle, and that is the reason there is al quaeda or isis or whatever is extremely flawed in my opinion. correct me if that's not what you're trying to say.

creating worse conditions in the middle east, taking things from them, trying to "bring them democracy" by force are reasons why they're lashing out. (and not the only reasons, i'm sure) it doesn't excuse their actions, but it could help to start toward a solution. rather than just blow them up and hate them all. that isn't going to do anything but keep the problem going.

I have not heard anyone say all Muslims absolutes in terms of anything is non productive.

Like assuming all white people are decedents of slave owners or all Germans are decedent's of Nazis or all black people are decedent's of slaves.

"descendants" and agreed. blaming the whole group for the actions of an extreme few does not help anything at all. and that seems to be what is being said though?

"You can give these people 99.9 percent of the world and say we will just stay in the .1 percent that's left and it wouldn't make any difference when your existence is was they hate. You can discuss it as much as you want and look at it from every angle and perspective you want it doesn't change reality." <--- i don't know any other way to read that post?

Islamic extremist not muslims in general zombs

okay. no one is advocating that you should let people victimize and walk all over you. (or at least no one on hmf) no one is trying to excuse the actions of extremists or terrorists. that was never the point of having a conversation. at least not as far as i've seen.

So what is the liberal solution to terrorism? And why is it failing so dismally?

Foo wrote:So what is the liberal solution to terrorism? And why is it failing so dismally?

i can't speak for liberals as a whole, but seeking out terror plots and stopping them, punishing those that commit or intend to commit acts of terror, finding ways to discourage more from carrying out terror. while also helping to provide something sustainable in the middle east where refugees can be safe are all good steps in my mind.

what is the conservative solution to terrorism and why is it failing so dismally?

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:So what is the liberal solution to terrorism? And why is it failing so dismally?

i can't speak for liberals as a whole, but seeking out terror plots and stopping them, punishing those that commit or intend to commit acts of terror, finding ways to discourage more from carrying out terror. while also helping to provide something sustainable in the middle east where refugees can be safe are all good steps in my mind.

what is the conservative solution to terrorism and why is it failing so dismally?

Keeping them out of the country is incredibly effective.

Have you not noticed the severe uptick in islamic terror attacks in the countries with liberal immigration policies?

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:So what is the liberal solution to terrorism? And why is it failing so dismally?

i can't speak for liberals as a whole, but seeking out terror plots and stopping them, punishing those that commit or intend to commit acts of terror, finding ways to discourage more from carrying out terror. while also helping to provide something sustainable in the middle east where refugees can be safe are all good steps in my mind.

what is the conservative solution to terrorism and why is it failing so dismally?

Keeping them out of the country is incredibly effective.

Have you not noticed the severe uptick in islamic terror attacks in the countries with liberal immigration policies?

i'm aware of that. do you want to work to stop terrorism or just try to make it someone else's problem as much as we can?

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:So what is the liberal solution to terrorism? And why is it failing so dismally?

i can't speak for liberals as a whole, but seeking out terror plots and stopping them, punishing those that commit or intend to commit acts of terror, finding ways to discourage more from carrying out terror. while also helping to provide something sustainable in the middle east where refugees can be safe are all good steps in my mind.

what is the conservative solution to terrorism and why is it failing so dismally?

Keeping them out of the country is incredibly effective.

Have you not noticed the severe uptick in islamic terror attacks in the countries with liberal immigration policies?

i'm aware of that. do you want to work to stop terrorism or just try to make it someone else's problem as much as we can?

People who play stupid games get stupid prizes. In the fantasy world, having no terrorism is possible. In the real world, you must represent your own people and prevent it from happening here. If other countries are willing to allow the bad guys in to blow up their children, not much we can do about that.

Amazing how little accountability there is in the so-called "intelligence community" and immigration agencies when these nuts are loose.