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Ultimately the vindication will be seen over time. There’s no reason for this to not be the end of Trumpism as we know it.

Jmac Attack wrote:

showa58taro wrote:If they’re disenfranchising their own side they’ll increasingly become the fringe. That’s where you want them.

With things like Parler, they are growing though. These folks hate to be fact checked. Its pretty concerning.

They can’t fight reality. It’s too short term a thing with too little substance.

showa58taro wrote:Ultimately the vindication will be seen over time. There’s no reason for this to not be the end of Trumpism as we know it.

I mean this is just wishful thinking.

showa58taro wrote:

Jmac Attack wrote:

showa58taro wrote:If they’re disenfranchising their own side they’ll increasingly become the fringe. That’s where you want them.

With things like Parler, they are growing though. These folks hate to be fact checked. Its pretty concerning.

They can’t fight reality. It’s too short term a thing with too little substance.

Yes, they can. It’s been effective political strategy throughout history.

showa58taro wrote:If they’re disenfranchising their own side they’ll increasingly become the fringe. That’s where you want them.

Meanwhile almost every Republican in Congress and the Trump administration has continued to gaslight Americans by pretending the election is in doubt. But I’m sure it will all be okay because you want it to be...

Here’s the thing about an anti-reality platform, which should be so blatantly obvious after the rise of Trump: you don’t need everyone to buy the bullshit. Millions of voters won’t buy the bullshit and also won’t care. What they care about are taxes, guns, God, gays, abortion and making liberals mad, not a functioning democracy.

disenfranchisement, with a media mouthpiece and a perceived enemy (that is basically anyone who disagrees with their political position) is not a great thing to have to contend with.

zombie wrote:dusenfranchisement with a media mouthpiece and a perceived enemy (that is basically anyone who disagrees with their political position) is not a great thing to have to contend with.

There’s also no indication that the Republicans will distance themselves from these people. And from a completely cynical point of view, why would they? Their goal is to obtain power, not to build a healthy country. MAGA is a source of energy and enthusiasm that Republicans won’t get from anywhere else. And 90-95% of Republicans will vote for any Republican, like they just did, so they can feel comfortable crossing about any lines.

Even beyond the political win-loss stuff, just generally having millions of people so bitter and so removed from reality is BAD for all of us. No, Trumpism isn’t over and it’s not going away any time soon.

First read this at Fox News, and then CNN basically said the same, but someone close to Trump has admitted that he knows he legitimately lost, he's purposely "punishing" democrats for questioning his win back in 2016. Yet I recall Clinton conceding on Election night, stepping aside for transition immediately. Jackass.

DancesWithWerewolves wrote:First read this at Fox News, and then CNN basically said the same, but someone close to Trump has admitted that he knows he legitimately lost, he's purposely "punishing" democrats for questioning his win back in 2016. Yet I recall Clinton conceding on Election night, stepping aside for transition immediately. Jackass.

He doesn't care about anyone but himself so it's kind of a no downside thing from his POV. If he somehow pulls it off (lol), four more years of immunity from his mounting legal issues. Either way, he'll never have to concede and can tell everyone he was cheated for the rest of his life. And he keeps the base energized so they'll keep sending him money to help pay off his debts.

Random thoughts by tigg - Trump should save a little respect and admit defeat stretching this out is annoying and serves no other purpose but to be a dick.
This whole country needs to regroup and take a deep breath and remember we are all on the same side because we are.
Not everyone who voted for Trump is in some cult that's cult like to believe such nonsense
I don't like my taxes being used to pay for worthless college educations this just pays off colleges who overcharge for meaningless degrees. Colleges milk this country as bad as pharmaceutical company's or Credit card companies.
If politics is the primary focus of your existence I pity you.

Tiggnutz wrote:Random thoughts by tigg - Trump should save a little respect and admit defeat stretching this out is annoying and serves no other purpose but to be a dick.
This whole country needs to regroup and take a deep breath and remember we are all on the same side because we are.
Not everyone who voted for Trump is in some cult that's cult like to believe such nonsense
I don't like my taxes being used to pay for worthless college educations this just pays off colleges who overcharge for meaningless degrees. Colleges milk this country as bad as pharmaceutical company's or Credit card companies.
If politics is the primary focus of your existence I pity you.

The problem is it does serve a lot of purposes for him. It keeps him in play, feeds his ego and gives him the opportunity to milk more money from supporters.

Nobody said every Republican voter is in the cult. But if you’re a Trump voter who is still behind him and supports these baseless claims of election fraud simply because he says so, you’re absolutely in the cult. And these people need to get back to reality if we’re going to have a functioning democracy. It’s also unhealthy to have prominent media catering to their delusions.

I don’t like my taxes supporting forever wars in countries we have no business occupying but that ain’t changing ever. Nobody on any side politically is happy with what their taxes pay for. Nobody. But we pay a lot of them. It was great living in Europe and actually seeing the tangible benefits of what I was paying into.

Out of curiosity earlier this week, I tallied up just about how much I've paid in student loans since 2003, and it's estimated at about 72 grand. I graduated with only a 50k debt. I still have about 41k to pay off. If banks and the housing market can get bailouts, so can the people preyed upon by student loans. How they work their interest is deceptive, and not at all explained when they present it. Every plan I've read up doesn't involve increasing taxes on middle and lower class, most pointed to billion dollar companies that aren't even getting taxed now. Of course, it remains to be seen that's how it plays out.

Needless to say, I was pretty winded after I crunched those numbers, then did it again to see if I did it right. With 72 grand, I could've had 3 cars by now, or 1 and a good downpayment on a house. Good christ.

And to be clear: YES I PAY ABOVE THE FUCKING MINIMUM MONTHLY PAYMENT

DancesWithWerewolves wrote:Out of curiosity earlier this week, I tallied up just about how much I've paid in student loans since 2003, and it's estimated at about 72 grand. I graduated with only a 50k debt. I still have about 41k to pay off. If banks and the housing market can get bailouts, so can the people preyed upon by student loans. How they work their interest is deceptive, and not at all explained when they present it. Every plan I've read up doesn't involve increasing taxes on middle and lower class, most pointed to billion dollar companies that aren't even getting taxed now. Of course, it remains to be seen that's how it plays out.

Needless to say, I was pretty winded after I crunched those numbers, then did it again to see if I did it right. With 72 grand, I could've had 3 cars by now, or 1 and a good downpayment on a house. Good christ.

And to be clear: YES I PAY ABOVE THE FUCKING MINIMUM MONTHLY PAYMENT

What really gets me are the “I paid off mine, it’s unfair” people. Isn’t the fucking point of political policy to build a better world so the people who come after you can have an easier time? People are so goddamn selfish.

America in a nutshell: socialism for me (the rich), rugged capitalism for thee (everyone else)

showa58taro wrote:

Jmac Attack wrote:

showa58taro wrote:If they’re disenfranchising their own side they’ll increasingly become the fringe. That’s where you want them.

With things like Parler, they are growing though. These folks hate to be fact checked. Its pretty concerning.

They can’t fight reality. It’s too short term a thing with too little substance.

My family is finding a way.

You know, the one positive I'm seeing come out of all of this is when I was growing up my relatives made me feel like I was the one out of touch with reality and the things I remembered happening didn't really happen (with only a few exceptions being my grandma and an uncle that died before Trump became a thing). They made me think I was crazy from the start. Being away from them and seeing the level of disconnect with reality and the blind faith/belief in one man's words over any evidence that points to the contrary...yeah, I'm starting to feel like maybe I was never the crazy one and it's making me a hell of a lot more confident in some aspects.

I've had inklings of this feeling for a long time, but this is kind of cementing it into place for me. I wasn't the crazy one, they just needed me to question and doubt myself so I wouldn't talk to anyone about the stuff I heard/saw/experienced.

Headhunter wrote:America in a nutshell: socialism for me (the rich), rugged capitalism for thee (everyone else)

It's only socialism if you can't afford to pay for the privilege of it. If you can afford it on your own, then you deserve it for free. (or at least that's how my family looks at it, but, I mean, the lot of them are on welfare and don't see that as socialism and don't see a problem with Republicans wanting to dismantle the very programs that are keeping them afloat. They think they are special and it would be cute if it wasn't so over-the-top stupid.)

They should definitely change the student loan debt system. No way can you pay off 70k of a 50k principle and still owe 41k in principle. That’s 62k in interest. Criminal. Wrote off all of that for everyone then assesss how you want to take the system forward. My guess a less predatory interest rate system and a higher mix of grant to loan value plus capping tuition requirements. Maybe throw in some abatement schemes while you’re at it.

And Dream, it sucks that your family are so insane.

I am certain Trump knows he lost but he’s just trying to milk every loser for money and will continue to do so. This will be the single worst presidency in US history when they write it up in the history books.

He might be. Andrew Johnson comes to mind. I thought I wouldn’t see a worse president than Dubya in my lifetime.

It’s awful how actually some of the W stuff now plays quite competently. Like the G20 virtual summit yesterday where they had a session on pandemic response which had the heads of the other nations speaking and Trump went golfing. Again. For the umpteenth time this presidency.