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As someone who has literally tens of thousands of illegally downloaded songs, I'm actually finding myself agreeing with Foo on most of these points.

zombie wrote:is it just because it's files on a computer, or documents or photos or whatever? does it just feel more removed or less personal or something? or does privacy not mean that much to you, or what?

if it was you and your family being filmed in your home, would that be viewed as more harmful? if domestic violence was thwarted in another home because that home had also been under surveillance, would that make it okay to continue filming your home?

What’s the impact on me? If it harms me it is illegal and must be stopped. If not, what difference is there.

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:is it just because it's files on a computer, or documents or photos or whatever? does it just feel more removed or less personal or something? or does privacy not mean that much to you, or what?

if it was you and your family being filmed in your home, would that be viewed as more harmful? if domestic violence was thwarted in another home because that home had also been under surveillance, would that make it okay to continue filming your home?

What’s the impact on me? If it harms me it is illegal and must be stopped. If not, what difference is there.

i feel like the impact on you may be minimal, because you don't seem to value privacy as much as some other people do.

is harm, in your estimation, just physical damage?

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:is it just because it's files on a computer, or documents or photos or whatever? does it just feel more removed or less personal or something? or does privacy not mean that much to you, or what?

if it was you and your family being filmed in your home, would that be viewed as more harmful? if domestic violence was thwarted in another home because that home had also been under surveillance, would that make it okay to continue filming your home?

What’s the impact on me? If it harms me it is illegal and must be stopped. If not, what difference is there.

i feel like the impact on you may be minimal, because you don't seem to value privacy as much as some other people do.

is harm, in your estimation, just physical damage?

i should say privacy and trust both don't seem to mean as much.

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:is it just because it's files on a computer, or documents or photos or whatever? does it just feel more removed or less personal or something? or does privacy not mean that much to you, or what?

if it was you and your family being filmed in your home, would that be viewed as more harmful? if domestic violence was thwarted in another home because that home had also been under surveillance, would that make it okay to continue filming your home?

What’s the impact on me? If it harms me it is illegal and must be stopped. If not, what difference is there.

i feel like the impact on you may be minimal, because you don't seem to value privacy as much as some other people do.

is harm, in your estimation, just physical damage?

No. Can be any kind of damage. If, for example, you’re saying that if I lived in America your extreme right-wing government could spy on me, and in doing so they pass my details on to someone who can blackmail me, or threaten me or my family, or remove my money, then that’s a problem. If they can wrongfully detain me or incarcerate me, again a problem.

If my ISP get to scan my laptop for child porn and, in funding nothing, move on, then I don’t care. If my neighbor spies on me through my window, but creepy but if it literally never goes beyond him in his flat, then so what. I’m unharmed as are my family. No money lost, no physical harm, no damage to property or sanity. All fine. What’s the distinction between my neighbor looking st me fir a minute in fascination, or a guy on an escalator checking out the chick in leggings in front of him as she has an amazing ass? Neither is great behavior if encourage but neither is harmful to the observed agent in this case.

zombie wrote:

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:is it just because it's files on a computer, or documents or photos or whatever? does it just feel more removed or less personal or something? or does privacy not mean that much to you, or what?

if it was you and your family being filmed in your home, would that be viewed as more harmful? if domestic violence was thwarted in another home because that home had also been under surveillance, would that make it okay to continue filming your home?

What’s the impact on me? If it harms me it is illegal and must be stopped. If not, what difference is there.

i feel like the impact on you may be minimal, because you don't seem to value privacy as much as some other people do.

is harm, in your estimation, just physical damage?

i should say privacy and trust both don't seem to mean as much.

Quite the contrary. I have a far higher degree of trust than you and Foo do. I don’t assume the government wants to harm me. You both seem to. I trust that these kinds of actions are generally benign and uninteresting.

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:is it just because it's files on a computer, or documents or photos or whatever? does it just feel more removed or less personal or something? or does privacy not mean that much to you, or what?

if it was you and your family being filmed in your home, would that be viewed as more harmful? if domestic violence was thwarted in another home because that home had also been under surveillance, would that make it okay to continue filming your home?

What’s the impact on me? If it harms me it is illegal and must be stopped. If not, what difference is there.

i feel like the impact on you may be minimal, because you don't seem to value privacy as much as some other people do.

is harm, in your estimation, just physical damage?

i should say privacy and trust both don't seem to mean as much.

Quite the contrary. I have a far higher degree of trust than you and Foo do. I don’t assume the government wants to harm me. You both seem to. I trust that these kinds of actions are generally benign and uninteresting.

fair enough. i hope to not live in the dystopia, that you want me to.

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:is it just because it's files on a computer, or documents or photos or whatever? does it just feel more removed or less personal or something? or does privacy not mean that much to you, or what?

if it was you and your family being filmed in your home, would that be viewed as more harmful? if domestic violence was thwarted in another home because that home had also been under surveillance, would that make it okay to continue filming your home?

What’s the impact on me? If it harms me it is illegal and must be stopped. If not, what difference is there.

i feel like the impact on you may be minimal, because you don't seem to value privacy as much as some other people do.

is harm, in your estimation, just physical damage?

i should say privacy and trust both don't seem to mean as much.

Quite the contrary. I have a far higher degree of trust than you and Foo do. I don’t assume the government wants to harm me. You both seem to. I trust that these kinds of actions are generally benign and uninteresting.

fair enough. i hope to not live in the dystopia, that you want me to.

Then get over to Europe. Try real Freedom.

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:is it just because it's files on a computer, or documents or photos or whatever? does it just feel more removed or less personal or something? or does privacy not mean that much to you, or what?

if it was you and your family being filmed in your home, would that be viewed as more harmful? if domestic violence was thwarted in another home because that home had also been under surveillance, would that make it okay to continue filming your home?

What’s the impact on me? If it harms me it is illegal and must be stopped. If not, what difference is there.

i feel like the impact on you may be minimal, because you don't seem to value privacy as much as some other people do.

is harm, in your estimation, just physical damage?

i should say privacy and trust both don't seem to mean as much.

Quite the contrary. I have a far higher degree of trust than you and Foo do. I don’t assume the government wants to harm me. You both seem to. I trust that these kinds of actions are generally benign and uninteresting.

fair enough. i hope to not live in the dystopia, that you want me to.

Then get over to Europe. Try real Freedom.

by the sounds of it, you've already accepted your straight jacket.

The cows trust the farmers. That is why they stay in their little areas right until they are slaughtered and become burgers.

Foo wrote:The cows trust the farmers. That is why they stay in their little areas right until they are slaughtered and become burgers.

See

Trust issues.

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:is it just because it's files on a computer, or documents or photos or whatever? does it just feel more removed or less personal or something? or does privacy not mean that much to you, or what?

if it was you and your family being filmed in your home, would that be viewed as more harmful? if domestic violence was thwarted in another home because that home had also been under surveillance, would that make it okay to continue filming your home?

What’s the impact on me? If it harms me it is illegal and must be stopped. If not, what difference is there.

i feel like the impact on you may be minimal, because you don't seem to value privacy as much as some other people do.

is harm, in your estimation, just physical damage?

i should say privacy and trust both don't seem to mean as much.

Quite the contrary. I have a far higher degree of trust than you and Foo do. I don’t assume the government wants to harm me. You both seem to. I trust that these kinds of actions are generally benign and uninteresting.

fair enough. i hope to not live in the dystopia, that you want me to.

Then get over to Europe. Try real Freedom.

by the sounds of it, you've already accepted your straight jacket.

How so? The issue you’ve described both in computer repairs and wider dues to happen in the country I live in or where I’m from. So it’s not my cross to bear.

showa58taro wrote:
How so? The issue you’ve described both in computer repairs and wider dues to happen in the country I live in or where I’m from. So it’s not my cross to bear.

because if it does happen, you wouldn't even take notice or objection at all, based on how you've responded here. so we'd never know if it does or not, over there.

to be clear, i don't think you're so much less free, just more comfortable with it. my straightjacket just doesn't fit quite right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... 2LtOKQ8U7c

Speech police in the UK.

This is what freedom does not look like.

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:
How so? The issue you’ve described both in computer repairs and wider dues to happen in the country I live in or where I’m from. So it’s not my cross to bear.

because if it does happen, you wouldn't even take notice or objection at all, based on how you've responded here. so we'd never know if it does or not, over there.

to be clear, i don't think you're so much less free, just more comfortable with it. my straightjacket just doesn't fit quite right.

If is a big word here. It suggests you’ve run out of actual argument.

Foo wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... 2LtOKQ8U7c

Speech police in the UK.

This is what freedom does not look like.

No way that was anything of interest. There’s tons of Christian and Buddhist and Muslim preachers everywhere. So I guess your point is the US has no dicks in a position of power abusing said power.

Except all those shooting of innocent blacks people, and the hundreds of videos of cops overstepping their boundaries, like the teacher being arrested, or the nurse being arrested, all for doing their job. Those were the good Freedom-fighters.

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:
How so? The issue you’ve described both in computer repairs and wider dues to happen in the country I live in or where I’m from. So it’s not my cross to bear.

because if it does happen, you wouldn't even take notice or objection at all, based on how you've responded here. so we'd never know if it does or not, over there.

to be clear, i don't think you're so much less free, just more comfortable with it. my straightjacket just doesn't fit quite right.

If is a big word here. It suggests you’ve run out of actual argument.

about the uk and possible lack of freedom? yeah, i don't live there and am unaware of it. you don't seem to care much about privacy, so wouldn't take much note probably. that's the extent of my argument there. you haven't disproven it. *shrug*

you also haven't disproven my stance on america, and bestbuy and such either. so, i guess if "you've run out of actual argument" is to mean that i laid out my argument and then argued in circles, and still feel the same way, with nothing to counter from you. then yeah. agreed.

I stand by businesses can make whatever policies they want and we can choose whether or not to do business with them based on those policies. I don't do business with Best Buy and haven't in like five or ten years, I think, but I'm perfectly fine with idiots going to their stores for service who then get caught with illegal shit on their hard drives, cameras, etc after signing away their right to privacy in regards to the files on the device being serviced.


It's a non-issue with me pretty much because the people being caught, and even those who aren't doing anything illegal, are actively choosing to do business with them. If you didn't have a choice, say one company has a complete monopoly on an area and their policy includes scanning for illegal downloads and no other company operates internet in the area so you literally don't have a choice but to do business with them if you want internet, then it's an issue. There are tons of repair shops around, Best Buy isn't the only option and no one is forced to use them.

Dream wrote:I stand by businesses can make whatever policies they want and we can choose whether or not to do business with them based on those policies. I don't do business with Best Buy and haven't in like five or ten years, I think, but I'm perfectly fine with idiots going to their stores for service who then get caught with illegal shit on their hard drives, cameras, etc after signing away their right to privacy in regards to the files on the device being serviced.


It's a non-issue with me pretty much because the people being caught, and even those who aren't doing anything illegal, are actively choosing to do business with them. If you didn't have a choice, say one company has a complete monopoly on an area and their policy includes scanning for illegal downloads and no other company operates internet in the area so you literally don't have a choice but to do business with them if you want internet, then it's an issue. There are tons of repair shops around, Best Buy isn't the only option and no one is forced to use them.

Also agree.

Dream wrote:I stand by businesses can make whatever policies they want and we can choose whether or not to do business with them based on those policies. I don't do business with Best Buy and haven't in like five or ten years, I think, but I'm perfectly fine with idiots going to their stores for service who then get caught with illegal shit on their hard drives, cameras, etc after signing away their right to privacy in regards to the files on the device being serviced.


It's a non-issue with me pretty much because the people being caught, and even those who aren't doing anything illegal, are actively choosing to do business with them. If you didn't have a choice, say one company has a complete monopoly on an area and their policy includes scanning for illegal downloads and no other company operates internet in the area so you literally don't have a choice but to do business with them if you want internet, then it's an issue. There are tons of repair shops around, Best Buy isn't the only option and no one is forced to use them.

yeah, my first post in the thread was essentially that. it's a violation, but one that you have to consent to before they can do anything. it's legal overreach. and like i said, earlier too, this is not the only instance. dream mentions another.

so long as the majority is okay with losing privacy and not being trusted, then it's going to keep happening on a larger and larger scale and in more intrusive and underhanded ways too. if people want to make a change as a society, as a culture, they can. but they'd have to shift focus from boycotting or removing things that offend them or make them uncomfortable. to things that are actually infringing and violating their rights and freedoms. take your pick.