Interesting but I disagree. Shouldn't be taken down. Not the sane.
Re: More destruction of historical statues and monuments
Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:21 pm
by Tiggnutz
zombie wrote:
showa58taro wrote:
Tiggnutz wrote:
showa58taro wrote:
Jason wrote:
showa58taro wrote:It's not about the soldiers but the statues. Keep up.
Hint: the statues aren't about the soldiers in them. But you already knew that.
I would say the statues are about the soldiers who died not the cause of the war. When I see the iconic Iwo Jima statue I think of the soldiers who fought there not Pearl Harbor .
My point is that a statue erected in Gettysburg in 1911 was never about the guys in the statue.
so, i'll ask again... was there stated intent, by the raising of these statues and monuments, to glorify or celebrate slavery?
Of course not and people don't walk by these statues and say " Ahh the good old days"
Re: More destruction of historical statues and monuments
Interesting but I disagree. Shouldn't be taken down. Not the sane.
it's the same, to those who seek to remove these statues, or to vandalize them.
Re: More destruction of historical statues and monuments
Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:26 pm
by Jason
showa58taro wrote:
zombie wrote:
showa58taro wrote:
zombie wrote:
showa58taro wrote:
No. And I can't link you to a document explicitly ordering the extermination of the Jews by Hitler. So I guess that wasn't real either. The intent is often not the stuff written on any plaque but rather the timing, situation and rationalization for the statues themselves. It's that easy.
earlier, you specifically made the case the intent for raising the statues was about slavery or racism. not even about any figure that is depicted in said statue or anything else.
i've said before that if they are universally thought to be about bigotry and slavery, then take them down by official means. but careful where that goes, is all.
It was and is. Why raise a statue in 1924 to honor Lee?
i wasn't there. it could very well be about slavery. so remove it, officially. no vandalism, no arson. just official decision and removal.
personally, i would make it clear that the reason for keeping the statue up was to remind of past shit. as an example to do better, to grow from our mistakes and our past bias' and wrongdoings. but i'm not into censorship and i can see where this could be headed.
was burning lincoln's statue, also because he represented slavery or racism?
Do that in a Museum not a statue or street.
Phony outrage.
Re: More destruction of historical statues and monuments
Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:40 pm
by Jason
zombie wrote:i don't really anything about tim tebow.
Here's a video that gives you a pretty decent idea about who he is.
Re: More destruction of historical statues and monuments
Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:52 pm
by zombie
Jason wrote:
zombie wrote:i don't really anything about tim tebow.
Here's a video that gives you a pretty decent idea about who he is.
very cool. i hope he lives up to that.
Re: More destruction of historical statues and monuments
Interesting but I disagree. Shouldn't be taken down. Not the sane.
it's the same, to those who seek to remove these statues, or to vandalize them.
You'd have to ask them to defend that. The statues of R. e. Lee are a monument to white supremacy. The statue of Washington or Jefferson is intended to highlight the fight for independence and creation of the USA. It wasn't built to glorify them as great slave owners. It therefore is in no way equivalent it even similar to he removal of Lee, and I'd oppose the removal of those statues of that was why they wanted it done.
Re: More destruction of historical statues and monuments
Interesting but I disagree. Shouldn't be taken down. Not the sane.
it's the same, to those who seek to remove these statues, or to vandalize them.
You'd have to ask them to defend that. The statues of R. e. Lee are a monument to white supremacy. The statue of Washington or Jefferson is intended to highlight the fight for independence and creation of the USA. It wasn't built to glorify them as great slave owners. It therefore is in no way equivalent it even similar to he removal of Lee, and I'd oppose the removal of those statues of that was why they wanted it done.
what should matter is not the statue itself, but the actions taken by people claiming it as inspiration. because this is what happens when you take it to be the fault of the statue. people look to remove or destroy or censor more and more.
Re: More destruction of historical statues and monuments
Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:56 pm
by Tiggnutz
Mobs pulling down statues on their own is hideous they should be prosecuting them to the fullest.
Re: More destruction of historical statues and monuments
Interesting but I disagree. Shouldn't be taken down. Not the sane.
it's the same, to those who seek to remove these statues, or to vandalize them.
You'd have to ask them to defend that. The statues of R. e. Lee are a monument to white supremacy. The statue of Washington or Jefferson is intended to highlight the fight for independence and creation of the USA. It wasn't built to glorify them as great slave owners. It therefore is in no way equivalent it even similar to he removal of Lee, and I'd oppose the removal of those statues of that was why they wanted it done.
what should matter is not the statue itself, but the actions taken by people claiming it as inspiration. because this is what happens when you take it to be the fault of the statue. people look to remove or destroy or censor more and more.
Nobody is faulting the statue for the actions. If not a single blow was struck by s racist ever again those statues should come down.
Re: More destruction of historical statues and monuments
Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:07 pm
by zombie
showa58taro wrote:Nobody is faulting the statue for the actions. If not a single blow was struck by s racist ever again those statues should come down.
not my mindset. actions are the problem. and censorship is an action too. *shrug*
Re: More destruction of historical statues and monuments
Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:09 pm
by Tiggnutz
zombie wrote:
showa58taro wrote:Nobody is faulting the statue for the actions. If not a single blow was struck by s racist ever again those statues should come down.
not my mindset. actions are the problem. and censorship is an action too. *shrug*
Agree 100%
Re: More destruction of historical statues and monuments
Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:13 pm
by showa58taro
zombie wrote:
showa58taro wrote:Nobody is faulting the statue for the actions. If not a single blow was struck by s racist ever again those statues should come down.
not my mindset. actions are the problem. and censorship is an action too. *shrug*
State sponsored philosophy is not the sane as censorship. Feel free to talk about how great being white is, but you don't get public statues for it.
Re: More destruction of historical statues and monuments
Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:15 pm
by zombie
showa58taro wrote:
zombie wrote:
showa58taro wrote:Nobody is faulting the statue for the actions. If not a single blow was struck by s racist ever again those statues should come down.
not my mindset. actions are the problem. and censorship is an action too. *shrug*
State sponsored philosophy is not the sane as censorship. Feel free to talk about how great being white is, but you don't get public statues for it.
i asked before, and you didn't answer, why were you with me, about defending people wearing the hijab in america or europe (if it happens there?}, in spite of what it represents even in our modern time?
Re: More destruction of historical statues and monuments
Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:22 pm
by showa58taro
zombie wrote:
showa58taro wrote:
zombie wrote:
showa58taro wrote:Nobody is faulting the statue for the actions. If not a single blow was struck by s racist ever again those statues should come down.
not my mindset. actions are the problem. and censorship is an action too. *shrug*
State sponsored philosophy is not the sane as censorship. Feel free to talk about how great being white is, but you don't get public statues for it.
i asked before, and you didn't answer, why were you with me, about defending people wearing the hijab in america or europe (if it happens there?}, in spite of what it represents even in our modern time?
A hijab represents faith. I don't see the similarity.
Re: More destruction of historical statues and monuments
Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:22 pm
by zombie
does state sponsored philosophy ever become censorship, in your mind? can state sponsored philosophy ever be oppressive or harmful or wrong?
Re: More destruction of historical statues and monuments
Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:24 pm
by showa58taro
zombie wrote:does state sponsored philosophy ever become censorship, in your mind? can state sponsored philosophy ever be oppressive or harmful or wrong?
Yes. All the time. Lots and lots. The worst oppression is state sponsored.
