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https://www.yahoo.com/news/apos-god-hel ... 10157.html

What a surprise. Such a sad excuse for a justice system in this country, The cop knows in the video he fucked up and there was no way to justify the killing and they couldn't even get him on manslaughter. Also, I assume the NRA will not throw their support behind Castile's family as they did for George Zimmerman.

Missing from the story are the details of the incident where Castile told the officer after he handed over his car registration (at that point he hadn't produced his license yet) he had a firearm in the car and his girlfriend follows up that he was licensed to carry but at that point it was too late to draw the officer's attention. At the same time he told the officer about the gun, he turns to his side and started unbuckling his seatbelt and that's when shots were fired into the car. The movement immediately after Castile announcing he has a gun provokes the cop into instantly assessing Castile as a threat and shooting him. The point of escalation lasts 5-10 seconds, with nobody stopping for a moment.

Remember this happens so quickly, it had probably been 10 seconds since the officer asked for Castile's license and registration and he hadn't produced his license yet. Is it more rational to assume he was reaching for the gun he just announced to the cop that he had in the car, or his wallet to get his ID given the most recent order he'd been given was to produce his license and registration? There's a 4 year old child in the car and his girlfriend and he was making a move for the gun? A guy with no criminal record at all, who served the public? The officer doesn't even see the weapon. It's clear the officer totally panicked.

This should have been a slam dunk manslaughter conviction. There's no reason this should have escalated to the point of firing shots at all.

who is going to announce that they have a gun with the intention of pulling that gun on the cop? ugh... i agree that it should have been an easy conviction.

When will the US start to educate its police officers for something other than murder.

showa58taro wrote:When will the US start to educate its police officers for something other than murder.

i think you shouldn't take the bad cases to mean all cops are bad, or even most cops. it's a minority. it shouldn't happen and it should be improved, but it shouldn't be made out to be that all cops in the united states are bad.

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:When will the US start to educate its police officers for something other than murder.

i think you shouldn't take the bad cases to mean all cops are bad, or even most cops. it's a minority. it shouldn't happen and it should be improved, but it shouldn't be made out to be that all cops in the united states are bad.

I read there was a part of the US that focused significant training and resources on de-escalation and they've had no police shootings in 5 years if I recall. That's what training and the resultant culture shift will do in my view. Nothing to do with good or bad apples. Purely that police trained correctly for this stuff perform better and are safer for society.

You can also root out the bad guys I'm sure.

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:When will the US start to educate its police officers for something other than murder.

i think you shouldn't take the bad cases to mean all cops are bad, or even most cops. it's a minority. it shouldn't happen and it should be improved, but it shouldn't be made out to be that all cops in the united states are bad.

I read there was a part of the US that focused significant training and resources on de-escalation and they've had no police shootings in 5 years if I recall. That's what training and the resultant culture shift will do in my view. Nothing to do with good or bad apples. Purely that police trained correctly for this stuff perform better and are safer for society.

You can also root out the bad guys I'm sure.

well, then you answered your earlier question?

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:When will the US start to educate its police officers for something other than murder.

i think you shouldn't take the bad cases to mean all cops are bad, or even most cops. it's a minority. it shouldn't happen and it should be improved, but it shouldn't be made out to be that all cops in the united states are bad.

He is talking about the training, I think. I saw a training video and it seemed really militarized. Shouldn't train people to think citizens are the enemy. And I saw the training video by a cop buddy of mine. I will ask him if it is up online and post it. It was pretty fucked up. However, I have no idea if the training video is what every cop in the U.S. sees.

We have cops show up in riot gear for domestic violence calls in my town. The cops here are shady as fuck. Ambers best friend is married to one of them. He is under investigation for murder and several rapes. She is trying to get away from him, because he has confessed to her that the boys have their way with female inmates all the time. They have video of him shoving a guy down a flight of stairs.....the guy was in for a marijuana charge. Nothing major. Shit is Cray Cray.

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:When will the US start to educate its police officers for something other than murder.

i think you shouldn't take the bad cases to mean all cops are bad, or even most cops. it's a minority. it shouldn't happen and it should be improved, but it shouldn't be made out to be that all cops in the united states are bad.

I read there was a part of the US that focused significant training and resources on de-escalation and they've had no police shootings in 5 years if I recall. That's what training and the resultant culture shift will do in my view. Nothing to do with good or bad apples. Purely that police trained correctly for this stuff perform better and are safer for society.

You can also root out the bad guys I'm sure.

well, then you answered your earlier question?

No I haven't. I know I heard one specific success story. I remember in October Chicago weee going to roll out something similar. The rest of the US seems to not take this approach as it doesn't take policing seriously as a public good. Instead it sees it as "the only thing that stops bad guys with guns are good guys with guns" mentality.

It's just pathetic.

Jmac Attack wrote:

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:When will the US start to educate its police officers for something other than murder.

i think you shouldn't take the bad cases to mean all cops are bad, or even most cops. it's a minority. it shouldn't happen and it should be improved, but it shouldn't be made out to be that all cops in the united states are bad.

He is talking about the training, I think. I saw a training video and it seemed really militarized. Shouldn't train people to think citizens are the enemy. And I saw the training video by a cop buddy of mine. I will ask him if it is up online and post it. It was pretty fucked up. However, I have no idea if the training video is what every cop in the U.S. sees.

We have cops show up in riot gear for domestic violence calls in my town. The cops here are shady as fuck. Ambers best friend is married to one of them. He is under investigation for murder and several rapes. She is trying to get away from him, because he has confessed to her that the boys have their way with female inmates all the time. They have video of him shoving a guy down a flight of stairs.....the guy was in for a marijuana charge. Nothing major. Shit is Cray Cray.

the times that i've had to interact with the cops, they've always thankfully been cool. i'm all for calling out the bad ones. and for changing training methods, if it is indeed militant. (unless they're in an environment where that would be more needed) but i am not for calling all cops bad. that only makes the situation worse.

zombie wrote:

Jmac Attack wrote:

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:When will the US start to educate its police officers for something other than murder.

i think you shouldn't take the bad cases to mean all cops are bad, or even most cops. it's a minority. it shouldn't happen and it should be improved, but it shouldn't be made out to be that all cops in the united states are bad.

He is talking about the training, I think. I saw a training video and it seemed really militarized. Shouldn't train people to think citizens are the enemy. And I saw the training video by a cop buddy of mine. I will ask him if it is up online and post it. It was pretty fucked up. However, I have no idea if the training video is what every cop in the U.S. sees.

We have cops show up in riot gear for domestic violence calls in my town. The cops here are shady as fuck. Ambers best friend is married to one of them. He is under investigation for murder and several rapes. She is trying to get away from him, because he has confessed to her that the boys have their way with female inmates all the time. They have video of him shoving a guy down a flight of stairs.....the guy was in for a marijuana charge. Nothing major. Shit is Cray Cray.

the times that i've had to interact with the cops, they've always thankfully been cool. i'm all for calling out the bad ones. and for changing training methods, if it is indeed militant. (unless they're in an environment where that would be more needed) but i am not for calling all cops bad. that only makes the situation worse.

You shouldn't be calling all cops anything. This isn't about labeling cops one thing or another. This is about trying to change a failing system by actual systemic reform. Not by waiting till bad things happen and you slowly weee out "bad guys" or even unlucky guys. The whole point is to stop trying to answer everything with violence and armed responses, and to try and curb the rampant hypermilitarixation of the police. Hell, even getting rid of the bulkshit army surplus gear they buy is a good start.

But ultimately, training, more community oriented policing and removing the idea of every citizen being a potential criminal may yield different results.

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:When will the US start to educate its police officers for something other than murder.

i think you shouldn't take the bad cases to mean all cops are bad, or even most cops. it's a minority. it shouldn't happen and it should be improved, but it shouldn't be made out to be that all cops in the united states are bad.

I read there was a part of the US that focused significant training and resources on de-escalation and they've had no police shootings in 5 years if I recall. That's what training and the resultant culture shift will do in my view. Nothing to do with good or bad apples. Purely that police trained correctly for this stuff perform better and are safer for society.

You can also root out the bad guys I'm sure.

well, then you answered your earlier question?

No I haven't. I know I heard one specific success story. I remember in October Chicago weee going to roll out something similar. The rest of the US seems to not take this approach as it doesn't take policing seriously as a public good. Instead it sees it as "the only thing that stops bad guys with guns are good guys with guns" mentality.

It's just pathetic.

you asked when the united states will start to educate cops not to murder. then gave an example in the u.s. where that is happening. so yeah.

and, again, do not take that to be widespread because what you see most often are reports of bad cops. most cops are not bad cops. i doubt that most cops are trained to be bad cops too. maybe in some inner cities they are. like chicago, which you mentioned. but also you have to look at the rate of violence in the city as well. because that's what they have to deal with, right or wrong.

In your response to my last post, Zombie, I agree with what you said. Didn't want to continue the quote monster lol

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:When will the US start to educate its police officers for something other than murder.

i think you shouldn't take the bad cases to mean all cops are bad, or even most cops. it's a minority. it shouldn't happen and it should be improved, but it shouldn't be made out to be that all cops in the united states are bad.

I read there was a part of the US that focused significant training and resources on de-escalation and they've had no police shootings in 5 years if I recall. That's what training and the resultant culture shift will do in my view. Nothing to do with good or bad apples. Purely that police trained correctly for this stuff perform better and are safer for society.

You can also root out the bad guys I'm sure.

well, then you answered your earlier question?

No I haven't. I know I heard one specific success story. I remember in October Chicago weee going to roll out something similar. The rest of the US seems to not take this approach as it doesn't take policing seriously as a public good. Instead it sees it as "the only thing that stops bad guys with guns are good guys with guns" mentality.

It's just pathetic.

you asked when the united states will start to educate cops not to murder. then gave an example in the u.s. where that is happening. so yeah.

and, again, do not take that to be widespread because what you see most often are reports of bad cops. most cops are not bad cops. i doubt that most cops are trained to be bad cops too. maybe in some inner cities they are. like chicago, which you mentioned. but also you have to look at the rate of violence in the city as well. because that's what they have to deal with, right or wrong.

I cited the exception. I'm trying to figure out why it's not becoming the rule.

showa58taro wrote:
You shouldn't be calling all cops anything. This isn't about labeling cops one thing or another. This is about trying to change a failing system by actual systemic reform. Not by waiting till bad things happen and you slowly weee out "bad guys" or even unlucky guys. The whole point is to stop trying to answer everything with violence and armed responses, and to try and curb the rampant hypermilitarixation of the police. Hell, even getting rid of the bulkshit army surplus gear they buy is a good start.

But ultimately, training, more community oriented policing and removing the idea of every citizen being a potential criminal may yield different results.

if your intent is not to label cops, then starting the conversation with "when will cops be taught to not murder" doesn't seem like the best foot forward.

but i do understand where you're trying to come from. police should be taught defensively, first, and offensively, only when it's necessary. if there is no threat of harm, don't react like there is. and, again, all the cops i've had to interact with, in both florida and colorado, have been cool. so yeah.

To be fair, we do have some good cops here. It's the higher up ones that are shady, from what knowledge I have.

showa58taro wrote: I cited the exception. I'm trying to figure out why it's not becoming the rule.

i think it is the rule. i think most cops are not militant or bad. where are you pulling from?

zombie wrote:

showa58taro wrote:
You shouldn't be calling all cops anything. This isn't about labeling cops one thing or another. This is about trying to change a failing system by actual systemic reform. Not by waiting till bad things happen and you slowly weee out "bad guys" or even unlucky guys. The whole point is to stop trying to answer everything with violence and armed responses, and to try and curb the rampant hypermilitarixation of the police. Hell, even getting rid of the bulkshit army surplus gear they buy is a good start.

But ultimately, training, more community oriented policing and removing the idea of every citizen being a potential criminal may yield different results.

if your intent is not to label cops, then starting the conversation with "when will cops be taught to not murder" doesn't seem like the best foot forward.

but i do understand where you're trying to come from. police should be taught defensively, first, and offensively, only when it's necessary. if there is no threat of harm, don't react like there is. and, again, all the cops i've had to interact with, in both florida and colorado, have been cool. so yeah.

Why is that not the right way to start it? When will cops be taught something other than murder is exactly the point. If you give a man only a hammer then every problem looks like a nail. The failing there is the teaching not the student. It's exactly my point that they aren't taught ways to approach high-tension situations in any way other than with guns drawn and tensions high. Hence the shooting of people with toy guns, knives, or even phones.

The core issue is the fact that there is not enough emphasis from the top down on how to do the job peacefully when possible.

Literally none of my argument rests on good or bad cops.

And almost no accountability for the ones who do cross the line just keeps the cycle going. Good police officers should be helping to root out the ones that make their lives harder, not use their union resources to protect every officer at all costs.