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zombie wrote:are you gonna throw any argument out and hope it sticks?

I want you to be able to smoke as much cheap weed as your little heart desires. What else can you ask for?

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:are you gonna throw any argument out and hope it sticks?

I want you to be able to smoke as much cheap weed as your little heart desires. What else can you ask for?

my little heart desires to smoke no more weed than it is currently smoking.

can't you be pro-something without wanting to necessarily partake in that something yourself? i'm pro-gun ownership. but i don't wanna ever own or even handle an actual gun.

Zombie, we are the same on this issue except I believe in freedom and you believe in the government regulating what we put into our bodies and telling us what to do.

you don't believe in freedom. you don't even want pot to be legal.

zombie wrote:you don't believe in freedom. you don't even want pot to be legal.

Don't be hateful.

all i know is hate.

zombie wrote:are you gonna throw any argument out and hope it sticks?

It is the Foo way.

Can I take a minute to advocate for regulation. It's not just about restrictions. It's about standards, norms, and fairness. Foo takes regulation to be equal to taxation. It's not. Regulation brings such diverse benefits as consumers not being screwed over by companies, companies not having artificial price increases or monopolization, restrictions on abuse of staff and workers having rights, protection of vulnerable consumers, and myriad other benefits. It is certainly at its core about protecting individual freedoms from being subsumed by major interests of the richest and most powerful in its extreme. Other times it ensures level playing fields. What regulation is not, is some kind of freedom-killing evil.

zombie wrote: if we want to take this into a blame liberals for all the wrong in the world direction, that's fair... but it seems like a different topic.

But a butt-fuckingly brilliant one!

zombie wrote:

Reign in Blood wrote:

zombie wrote:do you consider regulation, as it relates to "hard" or addicting substances, as anti-freedom?

if a person who is doing drugs, then commits murder, rape, theft, abuse etc.. then get them on that. i don't think that a drug user, without breaking other laws, should be sent to prison. if you drink alcohol, you are not a criminal. there are things that you could do to become a criminal, while under the influence of alcohol. but simply drinking alcohol does not make you a criminal. that is how i see drug use as well, at least ideally. it isn't that way currently.

Yes. But I see it as necessity for the better of society at large. Like I said, where is the line? Getting people involved into Meth and Heroin is more likely to amount to a clusterfuck of shit than Alcohol and Weed, but both certainly can.

enh. well, then freedom of speech isn't really freedom. there are things (or ways of saying things) that we get punished for saying. but fair enough. honestly laws can be seen as anti-freedom, in the same way as regulations. but i don't think that way.

i don't know where to draw the line. i don't think that a prison sentence is the way to draw the line though. do you?

I'm with you on stuff like marijuana, they should commit a larger crime, but with hard drugs, it's harder for me to say. My cousin got hardcore addicted to heroin, and when he got popped for possession, his parents refused to bail him out and thought it was the best thing that could have happened to him, as his stint in jail was the longest he was sober in years, we're talking like first time he was clean of anything in like a decade+. Last I heard he is much better now, off the heroin but still into other things as he still hangs around the wrong elements, but being off that shit is fucking great. Prison did facilitate that in a way he refused to do on his own or what anyone told him.

Reign in Blood wrote:

zombie wrote:

Reign in Blood wrote:

zombie wrote:do you consider regulation, as it relates to "hard" or addicting substances, as anti-freedom?

if a person who is doing drugs, then commits murder, rape, theft, abuse etc.. then get them on that. i don't think that a drug user, without breaking other laws, should be sent to prison. if you drink alcohol, you are not a criminal. there are things that you could do to become a criminal, while under the influence of alcohol. but simply drinking alcohol does not make you a criminal. that is how i see drug use as well, at least ideally. it isn't that way currently.

Yes. But I see it as necessity for the better of society at large. Like I said, where is the line? Getting people involved into Meth and Heroin is more likely to amount to a clusterfuck of shit than Alcohol and Weed, but both certainly can.

enh. well, then freedom of speech isn't really freedom. there are things (or ways of saying things) that we get punished for saying. but fair enough. honestly laws can be seen as anti-freedom, in the same way as regulations. but i don't think that way.

i don't know where to draw the line. i don't think that a prison sentence is the way to draw the line though. do you?

I'm with you on stuff like marijuana, they should commit a larger crime, but with hard drugs, it's harder for me to say. My cousin got hardcore addicted to heroin, and when he got popped for possession, his parents refused to bail him out and thought it was the best thing that could have happened to him, as his stint in jail was the longest he was sober in years, we're talking like first time he was clean of anything in like a decade+. Last I heard he is much better now, off the heroin but still into other things as he still hangs around the wrong elements, but being off that shit is fucking great. Prison did facilitate that in a way he refused to do on his own or what anyone told him.

i think there are ways to help people off of things, without prison. but i'm glad that you're cousin got the help that he needed there.

Reign in Blood wrote:

zombie wrote:

Reign in Blood wrote:

zombie wrote:do you consider regulation, as it relates to "hard" or addicting substances, as anti-freedom?

if a person who is doing drugs, then commits murder, rape, theft, abuse etc.. then get them on that. i don't think that a drug user, without breaking other laws, should be sent to prison. if you drink alcohol, you are not a criminal. there are things that you could do to become a criminal, while under the influence of alcohol. but simply drinking alcohol does not make you a criminal. that is how i see drug use as well, at least ideally. it isn't that way currently.

Yes. But I see it as necessity for the better of society at large. Like I said, where is the line? Getting people involved into Meth and Heroin is more likely to amount to a clusterfuck of shit than Alcohol and Weed, but both certainly can.

enh. well, then freedom of speech isn't really freedom. there are things (or ways of saying things) that we get punished for saying. but fair enough. honestly laws can be seen as anti-freedom, in the same way as regulations. but i don't think that way.

i don't know where to draw the line. i don't think that a prison sentence is the way to draw the line though. do you?

I'm with you on stuff like marijuana, they should commit a larger crime, but with hard drugs, it's harder for me to say. My cousin got hardcore addicted to heroin, and when he got popped for possession, his parents refused to bail him out and thought it was the best thing that could have happened to him, as his stint in jail was the longest he was sober in years, we're talking like first time he was clean of anything in like a decade+. Last I heard he is much better now, off the heroin but still into other things as he still hangs around the wrong elements, but being off that shit is fucking great. Prison did facilitate that in a way he refused to do on his own or what anyone told him.

That's interesting. How long was he in jail? I hear a lot of stories about how easily heroin and crack are obtained in prison, which keeps existing addictions going and tragically creates new addicts as well. I have no idea how those dynamics play out behind bars, but if he was locked up for a decent amount of time that's pretty impressive on his part to ride the withdrawals.

Headhunter wrote:

Reign in Blood wrote:

zombie wrote:

Reign in Blood wrote:

zombie wrote:do you consider regulation, as it relates to "hard" or addicting substances, as anti-freedom?

if a person who is doing drugs, then commits murder, rape, theft, abuse etc.. then get them on that. i don't think that a drug user, without breaking other laws, should be sent to prison. if you drink alcohol, you are not a criminal. there are things that you could do to become a criminal, while under the influence of alcohol. but simply drinking alcohol does not make you a criminal. that is how i see drug use as well, at least ideally. it isn't that way currently.

Yes. But I see it as necessity for the better of society at large. Like I said, where is the line? Getting people involved into Meth and Heroin is more likely to amount to a clusterfuck of shit than Alcohol and Weed, but both certainly can.

enh. well, then freedom of speech isn't really freedom. there are things (or ways of saying things) that we get punished for saying. but fair enough. honestly laws can be seen as anti-freedom, in the same way as regulations. but i don't think that way.

i don't know where to draw the line. i don't think that a prison sentence is the way to draw the line though. do you?

I'm with you on stuff like marijuana, they should commit a larger crime, but with hard drugs, it's harder for me to say. My cousin got hardcore addicted to heroin, and when he got popped for possession, his parents refused to bail him out and thought it was the best thing that could have happened to him, as his stint in jail was the longest he was sober in years, we're talking like first time he was clean of anything in like a decade+. Last I heard he is much better now, off the heroin but still into other things as he still hangs around the wrong elements, but being off that shit is fucking great. Prison did facilitate that in a way he refused to do on his own or what anyone told him.

That's interesting. How long was he in jail? I hear a lot of stories about how easily heroin and crack are obtained in prison, which keeps existing addictions going and tragically creates new addicts as well. I have no idea how those dynamics play out behind bars, but if he was locked up for a decent amount of time that's pretty impressive on his part to ride the withdrawals.

I don't recall if they said the specifics but it was months like 6-9. He did have a program or summat to help with counseling and riding the withdrawals and shiz. And I've heard the same as you that it's fairly easy to come by in prison, but he was a skinny white kid scared out of his mind, don't think he ever sought channels to seek it out. He'd been popped for a DUI before but this was his first rodeo in hell.

US Prisons don't seem like the place you'd send someone to get off drugs. Just a good way to get them more connections to it when they finally get out.

I do miss 7th Heaven.








Edit: MacKenzie Rosman grew up. lol.

http://www.sugarslam.com/wp-content/upl ... n-pose.jpg

Edited to the theme of every super hero trailer ever. :p

showa58taro wrote:US Prisons don't seem like the place you'd send someone to get off drugs. Just a good way to get them more connections to it when they finally get out.

One thing that happens all the time: people are forced to take plea deals for crimes they didn't commit and they end up entering the criminal world behind bars. When they're released, they're addicted to drugs, mixed with bad people and not socially fit to re-enter society. It is horrible.

Headhunter wrote:

showa58taro wrote:US Prisons don't seem like the place you'd send someone to get off drugs. Just a good way to get them more connections to it when they finally get out.

One thing that happens all the time: people are forced to take plea deals for crimes they didn't commit and they end up entering the criminal world behind bars. When they're released, they're addicted to drugs, mixed with bad people and not socially fit to re-enter society. It is horrible.

Presumably this adds to the recidivism rates in the US? Sounds like a terrible system.

Headhunter wrote:

showa58taro wrote:US Prisons don't seem like the place you'd send someone to get off drugs. Just a good way to get them more connections to it when they finally get out.

One thing that happens all the time: people are forced to take plea deals for crimes they didn't commit and they end up entering the criminal world behind bars. When they're released, they're addicted to drugs, mixed with bad people and not socially fit to re-enter society. It is horrible.

Oh good lord. No one has free will.

They committed no crimes, were forced to plead guilty, then forced onto drugs, and forced into bad friendships.

If prison is full of all these good, innocent people, it wouldn't be a hell hole, would it?