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Headhunter wrote:A lot of kids don't understand the fulfillment of finishing up a day of hard physical labor. You can't get that form of satisfaction doing anything else in life and it's really good for the soul.

In all seriousness, it is amazing how many young people cannot make it through a day of work. I am talking about just the physical and mental conditioning to labor outdoors. I know I have hired at least 8 people over the years who had to sit down and take a break on their first relatively busy day. Lot of overweight girls in their 20s who have been sitting in air conditioning for years.

Foo wrote:
Do you now notice a progression from the generation before us, to our generation, millenials?

What a bunch of fucking sad saps we have become. People dragging their bloody tampons all over facebook and twitter, whining about this and that, while all their friends and family tell them it is not their fault. Half the time I am reading it and thinking, "You are fat, lazy, and stupid, on your fifth job in five years and have never really accomplished anything. YOU ARE THE PROBLEM!".

Instead you get comments like: "They just don't know what a fabulous person they are missing out on!". "Golly, you just have bad luck." and all other manner of deflections to avoid reality.

If I got fired, I guarantee my grandparents would point out 100 other people who work there didn't get fired, so I better straighten up and fly right.

so, it's all something that happened naturally, with some sort of cause, to get us to this point? people just became more selfish and seeking more contact from people they don't see in person, and more validation. it's all on the individuals and nothing else?

Headhunter wrote:It is shocking that Foo tried to draw a connection between his views on abortion and something completely unrelated. Your social theories are interesting to read but baseless.

Is respect for life really unrelated? Selfish desire over another's well being.

Easy to see the connection.

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:
Do you now notice a progression from the generation before us, to our generation, millenials?

What a bunch of fucking sad saps we have become. People dragging their bloody tampons all over facebook and twitter, whining about this and that, while all their friends and family tell them it is not their fault. Half the time I am reading it and thinking, "You are fat, lazy, and stupid, on your fifth job in five years and have never really accomplished anything. YOU ARE THE PROBLEM!".

Instead you get comments like: "They just don't know what a fabulous person they are missing out on!". "Golly, you just have bad luck." and all other manner of deflections to avoid reality.

If I got fired, I guarantee my grandparents would point out 100 other people who work there didn't get fired, so I better straighten up and fly right.

so, it's all something that happened naturally, with some sort of cause, to get us to this point? people just became more selfish and seeking more contact from people they don't see in person, and more validation. it's all on the individuals and nothing else?

You tell me. I have given my theory.

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:
Do you now notice a progression from the generation before us, to our generation, millenials?

What a bunch of fucking sad saps we have become. People dragging their bloody tampons all over facebook and twitter, whining about this and that, while all their friends and family tell them it is not their fault. Half the time I am reading it and thinking, "You are fat, lazy, and stupid, on your fifth job in five years and have never really accomplished anything. YOU ARE THE PROBLEM!".

Instead you get comments like: "They just don't know what a fabulous person they are missing out on!". "Golly, you just have bad luck." and all other manner of deflections to avoid reality.

If I got fired, I guarantee my grandparents would point out 100 other people who work there didn't get fired, so I better straighten up and fly right.

so, it's all something that happened naturally, with some sort of cause, to get us to this point? people just became more selfish and seeking more contact from people they don't see in person, and more validation. it's all on the individuals and nothing else?

You tell me. I have given my theory.

i was asking for more clarification on your theory, but that's fair.

Foo wrote:

Headhunter wrote:It is shocking that Foo tried to draw a connection between his views on abortion and something completely unrelated. Your social theories are interesting to read but baseless.

Is respect for life really unrelated? Selfish desire over another's well being.

Easy to see the connection.

There is no connection at all. Not that pseudo historians haven't written entire books on theories flimsier than that, but yeah.

Who has more compassion and empathy: The person who kills their unborn child because kids are a real drag when the awesome local garage band is playing Friday night at the dive bar? Or the person who carries their child to term, knowing it will not be a healthy child?

Foo wrote:

Headhunter wrote:A lot of kids don't understand the fulfillment of finishing up a day of hard physical labor. You can't get that form of satisfaction doing anything else in life and it's really good for the soul.

In all seriousness, it is amazing how many young people cannot make it through a day of work. I am talking about just the physical and mental conditioning to labor outdoors. I know I have hired at least 8 people over the years who had to sit down and take a break on their first relatively busy day. Lot of overweight girls in their 20s who have been sitting in air conditioning for years.

I'm telling you, these kids actually don't go outside. They don't remember life before the internet. When I grew up, we had baseball games, football games, basketball, street hockey etc. going on all the time in our neighborhood during the summer. And we pretty consistently reach 100 degrees or over where I'm from.

Those same kids are staying inside today for the AC and internet access.

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Headhunter wrote:Gonna take a wild guess and propose that this generation projected to be the first ever earn less money than their parents' generation is a bigger contributor to this devaluation of life Foo is describing than Roe v. Wade.

also less opportunity, as more and more jobs become automated, may play a part as well? although there is more opportunity in other areas like youtube potentially. but not everyone can make that work either. i don't know.

Labor jobs still exist. More service and technology jobs exist than ever.

YouTube? Really...

How about old-fashioned business where people go out and solve problems for others? Provide them with needs or wants. Go clean up someone's yard. Go pick fruit. Cut lawns. Do something!

i didn't say there were no jobs to be found at all. if you don't see that more and more jobs are being automated, and people are earning less for the jobs that they do have, compared to previous generations. that's on you.

Foo wrote:Who has more compassion and empathy: The person who kills their unborn child because kids are a real drag when the awesome local garage band is playing Friday night at the dive bar? Or the person who carries their child to term, knowing it will not be a healthy child?

The second person, but so what? That question doesn't pertain to anything at all.

Foo wrote:Who has more compassion and empathy: The person who kills their unborn child because kids are a real drag when the awesome local garage band is playing Friday night at the dive bar? Or the person who carries their child to term, knowing it will not be a healthy child?

not a healthy child in what way? because they can't provide for him/her well, or because of something that the child was born with? i don't know what you're trying to get at.

back to the topic at hand:

These are the guidelines the jury had:
Involuntary manslaughter: An unlawful killing that was unintentionally caused as the result of the defendants' wanton or reckless conduct;

Reckless conduct: Conduct which creates a high degree of likelihood that substantial harm will result to another person. An example is Russian Roulette.

That is why she was convicted. It was viewed under the same guidelines as two people playing Russian Roulette, she didn't have to pull the trigger for it to result in the guy's death, just had to provide the gun and play along.

Foo wrote:

zombie wrote:

Foo wrote:
Do you now notice a progression from the generation before us, to our generation, millenials?

What a bunch of fucking sad saps we have become. People dragging their bloody tampons all over facebook and twitter, whining about this and that, while all their friends and family tell them it is not their fault. Half the time I am reading it and thinking, "You are fat, lazy, and stupid, on your fifth job in five years and have never really accomplished anything. YOU ARE THE PROBLEM!".

Instead you get comments like: "They just don't know what a fabulous person they are missing out on!". "Golly, you just have bad luck." and all other manner of deflections to avoid reality.

If I got fired, I guarantee my grandparents would point out 100 other people who work there didn't get fired, so I better straighten up and fly right.

so, it's all something that happened naturally, with some sort of cause, to get us to this point? people just became more selfish and seeking more contact from people they don't see in person, and more validation. it's all on the individuals and nothing else?

You tell me. I have given my theory.

do you see a way to steer it in a direction that you would feel more productive and more caring?

Ever hear how people talk about enemies of war? Ever see old wartime posters of how the people of other nations are portrayed? They are dehumanized because it makes killing them easier. It devalues life.

Ever hear how a pro-choice person talks about an unborn baby? Zygote, fetus, and sometimes going so far as to say there is no such thing as an unborn baby. Again, dehumanization to make killing easier.

When we normalize this, lack of respect for life creeps throughout society. In the case referenced in the OP, that guy was not a person to her. He was a story. Entertainment. A number.

Foo wrote:Ever hear how people talk about enemies of war? Ever see old wartime posters of how the people of other nations are portrayed? They are dehumanized because it makes killing them easier. It devalues life.

Ever hear how a pro-choice person talks about an unborn baby? Zygote, fetus, and sometimes going so far as to say there is no such thing as an unborn baby. Again, dehumanization to make killing easier.

When we normalize this, lack of respect for life creeps throughout society. In the case referenced in the OP, that guy was not a person to her. He was a story. Entertainment. A number.

2 + 2 does not equal 22.

Foo wrote:Who has more compassion and empathy: The person who kills their unborn child because kids are a real drag when the awesome local garage band is playing Friday night at the dive bar? Or the person who carries their child to term, knowing it will not be a healthy child?

I'm gonna break the obvious choice and say the first, cause that kind of person having a child is going to result in a shitty child full of mental health issues and will more than likely be abused and neglected during the duration of its life, but hey, at least it's alive, right?

While the second person is allowing a child to be born solely for her own benefit depending on the severity of the unhealthiness of the child. (If the child will live hours in brutal pain, it is more compassionate and empathetic to put the child to sleep before birth, which is what happens when a late term abortion is provided. If the child will have a genetic defect that makes it imperfect, but not in physical pain for the duration of its life, then it would be unethical to kill it out of convenience of simply not wanting an imperfect child.)


But that's just my opinion and my opinion has fuck all to do with the opinion of the people in those situations.

Dream wrote:back to the topic at hand:

These are the guidelines the jury had:
Involuntary manslaughter: An unlawful killing that was unintentionally caused as the result of the defendants' wanton or reckless conduct;

Reckless conduct: Conduct which creates a high degree of likelihood that substantial harm will result to another person. An example is Russian Roulette.

That is why she was convicted. It was viewed under the same guidelines as two people playing Russian Roulette, she didn't have to pull the trigger for it to result in the guy's death, just had to provide the gun and play along.

Couple problems here:

Was the killing unlawful? When is the last time a suicide victim or attempted suicide victims has been prosecuted under Massachusetts law?

Did she provide the weapon?

The conduct was not reckless nor unintentional. His death was not an accident. It was his intentional act.

Dream wrote:

Foo wrote:Who has more compassion and empathy: The person who kills their unborn child because kids are a real drag when the awesome local garage band is playing Friday night at the dive bar? Or the person who carries their child to term, knowing it will not be a healthy child?

I'm gonna break the obvious choice and say the first, cause that kind of person having a child is going to result in a shitty child full of mental health issues and will more than likely be abused and neglected during the duration of its life, but hey, at least it's alive, right?

While the second person is allowing a child to be born solely for her own benefit depending on the severity of the unhealthiness of the child. (If the child will live hours in brutal pain, it is more compassionate and empathetic to put the child to sleep before birth, which is what happens when a late term abortion is provided. If the child will have a genetic defect that makes it imperfect, but not in physical pain for the duration of its life, then it would be unethical to kill it out of convenience of simply not wanting an imperfect child.)


But that's just my opinion and my opinion has fuck all to do with the opinion of the people in those situations.

I like to think that over the course of civilization there have been many unplanned pregnancies where people owned up to their responsibility and not only had the child, but cared for it and tried their best to provide for it.

Foo wrote:

Dream wrote:back to the topic at hand:

These are the guidelines the jury had:
Involuntary manslaughter: An unlawful killing that was unintentionally caused as the result of the defendants' wanton or reckless conduct;

Reckless conduct: Conduct which creates a high degree of likelihood that substantial harm will result to another person. An example is Russian Roulette.

That is why she was convicted. It was viewed under the same guidelines as two people playing Russian Roulette, she didn't have to pull the trigger for it to result in the guy's death, just had to provide the gun and play along.

Couple problems here:

Was the killing unlawful? When is the last time a suicide victim or attempted suicide victims has been prosecuted under Massachusetts law?

Did she provide the weapon?

The conduct was not reckless nor unintentional. His death was not an accident. It was his intentional act.

what happened to supporting the jury who had all of the information available to them? Or is that only applicable if you support the outcome.


Honestly, I don't think there was enough to convict her, jury said differently. From their point of view, I'm guessing they saw the texts as the gun in a Russian Roulette case. He died by his hand at her initiating the game.

Either way, she was basically given a slap on the wrist, probably because of contention with legal definition and them barely edging it over to that viewpoint. In most suicide cases, there are no definitive ties to other people who may have pushed someone towards the end result, so not enough evidence to tie it back to the actions of another. In this case there was a shit-ton of evidence saying the dude was asking for help and she was giving him instructions on how to kill himself instead.

The odds of appeal are ridiculously high for this case.

Dream wrote:

Foo wrote:

Dream wrote:back to the topic at hand:

These are the guidelines the jury had:
Involuntary manslaughter: An unlawful killing that was unintentionally caused as the result of the defendants' wanton or reckless conduct;

Reckless conduct: Conduct which creates a high degree of likelihood that substantial harm will result to another person. An example is Russian Roulette.

That is why she was convicted. It was viewed under the same guidelines as two people playing Russian Roulette, she didn't have to pull the trigger for it to result in the guy's death, just had to provide the gun and play along.

Couple problems here:

Was the killing unlawful? When is the last time a suicide victim or attempted suicide victims has been prosecuted under Massachusetts law?

Did she provide the weapon?

The conduct was not reckless nor unintentional. His death was not an accident. It was his intentional act.

what happened to supporting the jury who had all of the information available to them? Or is that only applicable if you support the outcome.


Honestly, I don't think there was enough to convict her, jury said differently. From their point of view, I'm guessing they saw the texts as the gun in a Russian Roulette case. He died by his hand at her initiating the game.

Either way, she was basically given a slap on the wrist, probably because of contention with legal definition and them barely edging it over to that viewpoint. In most suicide cases, there are no definitive ties to other people who may have pushed someone towards the end result, so not enough evidence to tie it back to the actions of another. In this case there was a shit-ton of evidence saying the dude was asking for help and she was giving him instructions on how to kill himself instead.

The odds of appeal are ridiculously high for this case.

I believe the jury was given bad instructions. This is like trying to find a crime versus trying a crime.

Nothing changes that he pulled the trigger and she was not even there. He provided the means of his own demise and carried it out.

I find pretty much everyone in this case to be repulsive. From the boy's parents to the girl. Like I said, I hope the girl gets hit by a truck. I don't buy into the parents being angels either. Something is off with them.