zombie wrote:it seems like your critical of self medicating. which doesn't make sense, if you also don't trust doctors, in general.
I am critical of using drugs to cover up emotional problems.
it seemed to go further than that. even questioning that you didn't really need painkillers for your teeth.
covering up shouldn't be the way it's used though, i agree. don't use the drug as the solution. if you need to, use to help you cope while you figure out the solution.
Nobody "needs" that shit.
How many people do you know who use anti-depressants and successfully beat their mental issues? It is a cover up until you die when you start down that path. It is the crutch that keeps those folks addicted and never resolving the problem.
i know at least one person that seems to be using it the way that i am advocating it be used. and it seems to be doing good for them.
what works for you will not work for everyone. if they find something to make it a little bit easier to cope while they figure out their issues, then what's the problem? again, not the solution. just an extra help to cope along the way.
and how much of "covering it up" is for the benefit for the community, employers, teachers, parents, and such. that can't be bothered to help someone with their problem, so a pill is prescribed for their convenience? an actual support system that cared enough to give a damn would go a long way.
It mask symptoms for a lot of people for awhile. What about the long term? Too often it ends up badly.
Again, heroin is great for weight loss. You can function just fine until you can't.
The pill is prescribed for profit. Don't kid yourself. The cause is as noble as dealing crack, just in a clinical setting.
too often, it's misused and overused. if it was not taken as a solution, then there would be less of a problem.
and again. don't use it as the solution! DON'T USE IT AS THE SOLUTION! (did caps help you out to get what i've been saying all along?) if it's handled as an extra help along the way, that will help some people. if you can get by without it, awesome. but for some people it can be helpful. again, so long as you don't misuse or overuse it, or try to make it to be the solution.
did i say that it isn't prescribed for profit? the reason it started, though, as far as i can tell.. was to keep children calm in the 50s or 60s. or at least that's when it started on a large scale, again from what i can tell. and that is for the convenience of the community, not giving a damn about actually helping the kids with whatever problem. and it's gone on from there.
How can you possibly learn how to cope while under the influence of chemicals? If the end goal is sobriety and stability, you can't trade off sobriety.
Ever wonder why the snap back is so hard after getting off those drugs? The formerly depressed become homicidal and suicidal. Because it is doing irreparable harm and creating an addiction.
These issues are not something you sprinkle chemicals on. There is no depression agent they are neutralizing. They are fucking with the entire brain and other organs.
Foo wrote:
How can you possibly learn how to cope while under the influence of chemicals? If the end goal is sobriety and stability, you can't trade off sobriety.
Ever wonder why the snap back is so hard after getting off those drugs? The formerly depressed become homicidal and suicidal. Because it is doing irreparable harm and creating an addiction.
These issues are not something you sprinkle chemicals on. There is no depression agent they are neutralizing. They are fucking with the entire brain and other organs.
i don't know how to learn to cope. i don't have experience with those drugs personally. are you speaking from a place of personal experience? i know a person or two that seem to make it work, as a help along the way.
if more people had a good support system in place, then maybe there would be far less usage. if family and co-workers and teachers gave a damn about actually helping, rather than just not wanting to be bothered, it would work wonders toward limiting the anti-depressant epidemic. but it's easier to not give a damn and tell them to just get over it or take a pill or something.
so given that, if people find that they can cope better with a drug, while also trying to figure out their issues, why not?
Foo wrote:
How can you possibly learn how to cope while under the influence of chemicals? If the end goal is sobriety and stability, you can't trade off sobriety.
Ever wonder why the snap back is so hard after getting off those drugs? The formerly depressed become homicidal and suicidal. Because it is doing irreparable harm and creating an addiction.
These issues are not something you sprinkle chemicals on. There is no depression agent they are neutralizing. They are fucking with the entire brain and other organs.
i don't know how to learn to cope. i don't have experience with those drugs personally. are you speaking from a place of personal experience? i know a person or two that seem to make it work, as a help along the way.
if more people had a good support system in place, then maybe there would be far less usage. if family and co-workers and teachers gave a damn about actually helping, rather than just not wanting to be bothered, it would work wonders toward limiting the anti-depressant epidemic. but it's easier to not give a damn and tell them to just get over it or take a pill or something.
so given that, if people find that they can cope better with a drug, while also trying to figure out their issues, why not?
Because it ends up with people dead. Taking a drug to hide symptoms is not coping at all. It is masking symptoms and they need more, then they hate themselves, then they seek out more, other things, or go off their meds and have incidents. There is not exactly a long history of the usage of these drugs in the way they are being used today.
Jmac Attack wrote:Don't forget, Foo had opiates prescribed for him once upon a time. He held off, but then eventually took one. So, he is as bad as a weed user! Lmao!
I really don't feel that way, but just pointing out that not every one is an abuser.
I had one when I had my wisdom teeth out. Probably didn't need it. They were overselling the pain. It sucked, but having teeth yanked out should.
Agreed. But have ya ever had a panic attacks? I have had teeth pulled, a heart attack, and have had massively painful toothaches. I have also had 2nd degree burns, and only took two Vicodin. However, none of that was as bad as a panic/anxiety attack. Weed has helped me so much. So, I just want you to use a little perspective.
Btw.....I saw that pic you posted, and your teeth look perfect! Wisdom teeth suck though. Gonna cost me $800 to get them fixed. Ugh.
Have you considered that your panic attacks are made worse because of the pills reducing the incentive to cope in other ways and the heart attack is the result of the self medication? That the weed helping you in some ways is hurting you in other ways?
I have some overbite and my teeth are not perfect. My fiancé has near perfect teeth, but she is a dentist and always getting them worked on by her friends. She threatens to apply orthodontics to me. :p
Yes, I totally have considered it! However, pills have never helped my anxiety/panic attacks. I have tried some. But I started having them in my early 20s. I didn't smoke reefer until I was 32. My heart attack was because of two things. Heredity and smoking cigs. My father had a massive heart attack at age 32. All of my family has had a heart attack by the time they were in their 40s. No joke. I own up to my own abuse of my body. But that doesn't change the fact that you should be also concerned with doctors. We trust them. Maybe we shouldn't.
Hopefully you are eating your weed these days?
I have no reason to trust in doctors any more than I would trust a lawyer or politician. I think you always have to be the primary decision maker while using one you trust for some help in making the decisions.
Nope. I vape that shit. Lol. So, you don't take your physician's advice? You're smarter than them? I am guessing.
Foo wrote:
How can you possibly learn how to cope while under the influence of chemicals? If the end goal is sobriety and stability, you can't trade off sobriety.
Ever wonder why the snap back is so hard after getting off those drugs? The formerly depressed become homicidal and suicidal. Because it is doing irreparable harm and creating an addiction.
These issues are not something you sprinkle chemicals on. There is no depression agent they are neutralizing. They are fucking with the entire brain and other organs.
i don't know how to learn to cope. i don't have experience with those drugs personally. are you speaking from a place of personal experience? i know a person or two that seem to make it work, as a help along the way.
if more people had a good support system in place, then maybe there would be far less usage. if family and co-workers and teachers gave a damn about actually helping, rather than just not wanting to be bothered, it would work wonders toward limiting the anti-depressant epidemic. but it's easier to not give a damn and tell them to just get over it or take a pill or something.
so given that, if people find that they can cope better with a drug, while also trying to figure out their issues, why not?
Because it ends up with people dead. Taking a drug to hide symptoms is not coping at all. It is masking symptoms and they need more, then they hate themselves, then they seek out more, other things, or go off their meds and have incidents. There is not exactly a long history of the usage of these drugs in the way they are being used today.
i'm not talking about hiding or masking symptoms. that is doing it in the wrong way. but if you want to stop the usage, then there has to be big change. as a culture, we treat people like commodity or resource. if they are a problem, they are supposed to just get over it. it's not convenient to help them cope. so they get a pill instead. so, either that changes. either we actually give a damn about people, as a culture. or they use the pills as a way to help cope until they figure out their issues. or they die like you said. but you don't want to make anything better. you just want to point the finger at them.
Just because something is created and marketed, does not make it a good product.
Caring about people is exactly what I am doing. I want them to get real help that leads to a better life. I don't want to see them trade some dulling of emotions now for a future of addiction and greater depression or psychosis.
If someone take a big steaming shit in the middle of the room, you don't just spray some febreeze on it. You have to deal with the shit.
zombie wrote:okay. so, you want to deal with the shit. how do you want to help them to cope? how do you help their depression and their self doubt and anxieties?
People have to find internal strength. You cannot grant it to them via a substance without dude effects. It is not that I don't want to see them better, it is that I don't want to see them worse by piling an addiction onto a person with a mental disorder already.
Let's pick a strength number that basically anyone can achieve. A man wants to bench press 200 pounds. He half-ass works out for a couple weeks and can't do it. Do you pump him full of horse steroids to give him the strength to do it? He does not have the discipline to do it on his own.
zombie wrote:okay. so, you want to deal with the shit. how do you want to help them to cope? how do you help their depression and their self doubt and anxieties?
People have to find internal strength. You cannot grant it to them via a substance without dude effects. It is not that I don't want to see them better, it is that I don't want to see them worse by piling an addiction onto a person with a mental disorder already.
Let's pick a strength number that basically anyone can achieve. A man wants to bench press 200 pounds. He half-ass works out for a couple weeks and can't do it. Do you pump him full of horse steroids to give him the strength to do it? He does not have the discipline to do it on his own.
i asked how you would help them. you say you want them to just find help within themselves? if they knew how to cope, there would be no looking for external ways to cope, such as a pill. if you don't want them to take up the pill, what do you offer instead?
zombie wrote:okay. so, you want to deal with the shit. how do you want to help them to cope? how do you help their depression and their self doubt and anxieties?
People have to find internal strength. You cannot grant it to them via a substance without dude effects. It is not that I don't want to see them better, it is that I don't want to see them worse by piling an addiction onto a person with a mental disorder already.
Let's pick a strength number that basically anyone can achieve. A man wants to bench press 200 pounds. He half-ass works out for a couple weeks and can't do it. Do you pump him full of horse steroids to give him the strength to do it? He does not have the discipline to do it on his own.
i asked how you would help them. you say you want them to just find help within themselves? if they knew how to cope, there would be no looking for external ways to cope, such as a pill. if you don't want them to take up the pill, what do you offer instead?
Nothing. Let them fail. Fuck em. Foo has food to sell.
zombie wrote:okay. so, you want to deal with the shit. how do you want to help them to cope? how do you help their depression and their self doubt and anxieties?
People have to find internal strength. You cannot grant it to them via a substance without dude effects. It is not that I don't want to see them better, it is that I don't want to see them worse by piling an addiction onto a person with a mental disorder already.
Let's pick a strength number that basically anyone can achieve. A man wants to bench press 200 pounds. He half-ass works out for a couple weeks and can't do it. Do you pump him full of horse steroids to give him the strength to do it? He does not have the discipline to do it on his own.
i asked how you would help them. you say you want them to just find help within themselves? if they knew how to cope, there would be no looking for external ways to cope, such as a pill. if you don't want them to take up the pill, what do you offer instead?
I offer them support and tough love. I offer them the respect they deserve and the knowledge that they are capable of adapting to live a happy life without the crutch of the newest fad pill.
zombie wrote:okay. so, you want to deal with the shit. how do you want to help them to cope? how do you help their depression and their self doubt and anxieties?
People have to find internal strength. You cannot grant it to them via a substance without dude effects. It is not that I don't want to see them better, it is that I don't want to see them worse by piling an addiction onto a person with a mental disorder already.
Let's pick a strength number that basically anyone can achieve. A man wants to bench press 200 pounds. He half-ass works out for a couple weeks and can't do it. Do you pump him full of horse steroids to give him the strength to do it? He does not have the discipline to do it on his own.
i asked how you would help them. you say you want them to just find help within themselves? if they knew how to cope, there would be no looking for external ways to cope, such as a pill. if you don't want them to take up the pill, what do you offer instead?
I offer them support and tough love. I offer them the respect they deserve and the knowledge that they are capable of adapting to live a happy life without the crutch of the newest fad pill.
support and tough love? to me that sounds like "suck it up and get over it. i'll still be here when you learn to deal on your own.' if i'm wrong, let me know what you actually mean? how would you help someone through a bout? i'm genuinely curious, but you're giving vague answers.
zombie wrote:okay. so, you want to deal with the shit. how do you want to help them to cope? how do you help their depression and their self doubt and anxieties?
People have to find internal strength. You cannot grant it to them via a substance without dude effects. It is not that I don't want to see them better, it is that I don't want to see them worse by piling an addiction onto a person with a mental disorder already.
Let's pick a strength number that basically anyone can achieve. A man wants to bench press 200 pounds. He half-ass works out for a couple weeks and can't do it. Do you pump him full of horse steroids to give him the strength to do it? He does not have the discipline to do it on his own.
i asked how you would help them. you say you want them to just find help within themselves? if they knew how to cope, there would be no looking for external ways to cope, such as a pill. if you don't want them to take up the pill, what do you offer instead?
I offer them support and tough love. I offer them the respect they deserve and the knowledge that they are capable of adapting to live a happy life without the crutch of the newest fad pill.
support and tough love? to me that sounds like "suck it up and get over it. i'll still be here when you learn to deal on your own.' if i'm wrong, let me know what you actually mean? how would you help someone through a bout? i'm genuinely curious, but you're giving vague answers.
You don't think people need to be told that at times? Everything can't be a pity party.
zombie wrote:okay. so, you want to deal with the shit. how do you want to help them to cope? how do you help their depression and their self doubt and anxieties?
People have to find internal strength. You cannot grant it to them via a substance without dude effects. It is not that I don't want to see them better, it is that I don't want to see them worse by piling an addiction onto a person with a mental disorder already.
Let's pick a strength number that basically anyone can achieve. A man wants to bench press 200 pounds. He half-ass works out for a couple weeks and can't do it. Do you pump him full of horse steroids to give him the strength to do it? He does not have the discipline to do it on his own.
i asked how you would help them. you say you want them to just find help within themselves? if they knew how to cope, there would be no looking for external ways to cope, such as a pill. if you don't want them to take up the pill, what do you offer instead?
I offer them support and tough love. I offer them the respect they deserve and the knowledge that they are capable of adapting to live a happy life without the crutch of the newest fad pill.
support and tough love? to me that sounds like "suck it up and get over it. i'll still be here when you learn to deal on your own.' if i'm wrong, let me know what you actually mean? how would you help someone through a bout? i'm genuinely curious, but you're giving vague answers.
You don't think people need to be told that at times? Everything can't be a pity party.
i think that if you want to tell them how not to cope, then you should show them how to cope, or help them to find a way that works for them. your "no pity party" sentiment is about the same as what i was saying before. they're an inconvenience and you can't be bothered. if that's your approach, fine. i just feel like it's not a good one.
zombie wrote:okay. so, you want to deal with the shit. how do you want to help them to cope? how do you help their depression and their self doubt and anxieties?
People have to find internal strength. You cannot grant it to them via a substance without dude effects. It is not that I don't want to see them better, it is that I don't want to see them worse by piling an addiction onto a person with a mental disorder already.
Let's pick a strength number that basically anyone can achieve. A man wants to bench press 200 pounds. He half-ass works out for a couple weeks and can't do it. Do you pump him full of horse steroids to give him the strength to do it? He does not have the discipline to do it on his own.
i asked how you would help them. you say you want them to just find help within themselves? if they knew how to cope, there would be no looking for external ways to cope, such as a pill. if you don't want them to take up the pill, what do you offer instead?
I offer them support and tough love. I offer them the respect they deserve and the knowledge that they are capable of adapting to live a happy life without the crutch of the newest fad pill.
support and tough love? to me that sounds like "suck it up and get over it. i'll still be here when you learn to deal on your own.' if i'm wrong, let me know what you actually mean? how would you help someone through a bout? i'm genuinely curious, but you're giving vague answers.
You don't think people need to be told that at times? Everything can't be a pity party.
i think that if you want to tell them how not to cope, then you should show them how to cope, or help them to find a way that works for them. your "no pity party" sentiment is about the same as what i was saying before. they're an inconvenience and you can't be bothered. if that's your approach, fine. i just feel like it's not a good one.
Its not that they are an inconvenience, it is that there are certain things that need to be done on one's own. I wouldn't teach them how to jerk off either.
And since I took in a person with dementia five years ago that I barely knew, and provide support to two people who are diagnosed as bi-polar and on meds, I think I may be more compassionate than you give me credit for. My aunt's caregiver is a total train wreck and my fiance's mom gets support from both of us. And yes, I would tell any of them they need to suck it up and learn to cope.
Foo wrote:
Its not that they are an inconvenience, it is that there are certain things that need to be done on one's own. I wouldn't teach them how to jerk off either.
And since I took in a person with dementia five years ago that I barely knew, and provide support to two people who are diagnosed as bi-polar and on meds, I think I may be more compassionate than you give me credit for. My aunt's caregiver is a total train wreck and my fiance's mom gets support from both of us. And yes, I would tell any of them they need to suck it up and learn to cope.
and given that, i would argue that you are more compassionate than the persona you try to play up with your posts here. i don't know you in person, so if you want to be taken as you actually are, that needs to come across in the way that you state your point of view online. it's up to you.
zombie wrote:okay. so, you want to deal with the shit. how do you want to help them to cope? how do you help their depression and their self doubt and anxieties?
People have to find internal strength. You cannot grant it to them via a substance without dude effects. It is not that I don't want to see them better, it is that I don't want to see them worse by piling an addiction onto a person with a mental disorder already.
Let's pick a strength number that basically anyone can achieve. A man wants to bench press 200 pounds. He half-ass works out for a couple weeks and can't do it. Do you pump him full of horse steroids to give him the strength to do it? He does not have the discipline to do it on his own.
i asked how you would help them. you say you want them to just find help within themselves? if they knew how to cope, there would be no looking for external ways to cope, such as a pill. if you don't want them to take up the pill, what do you offer instead?
Nothing. Let them fail. Fuck em. Foo has food to sell.
zombie wrote:okay. so, you want to deal with the shit. how do you want to help them to cope? how do you help their depression and their self doubt and anxieties?
People have to find internal strength. You cannot grant it to them via a substance without dude effects. It is not that I don't want to see them better, it is that I don't want to see them worse by piling an addiction onto a person with a mental disorder already.
Let's pick a strength number that basically anyone can achieve. A man wants to bench press 200 pounds. He half-ass works out for a couple weeks and can't do it. Do you pump him full of horse steroids to give him the strength to do it? He does not have the discipline to do it on his own.
i asked how you would help them. you say you want them to just find help within themselves? if they knew how to cope, there would be no looking for external ways to cope, such as a pill. if you don't want them to take up the pill, what do you offer instead?
Nothing. Let them fail. Fuck em. Foo has food to sell.
